Posted: 12/17/2015 2:52:51 AM EDT
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My wife and I were driving to the store (she was driving) and an FHP trooper standing by the side of the road pulling out a bandit sign waives us down and says that she was speeding. He gives her a $206 ticket for going 40mph in a 30mph.
Here is the problem: - The speed limit on that road is 35mph and is clearly marked everywhere. - We were not going anywhere near 40mph. In fact, we were coming to a stop as we got near him since there is a stop sign where he was. - The ticket lists the location as somewhere across town that doesn't have a 30mph speed limit either. - The ticket states that he clocked us with a "Stalker Dual" which seems impossible because he had his back turned to us as we approached and he did not have a radar/laser gun on his person. I understand that he could have had a coworker down the road clocking people but we didn't see anybody and he made a point to say that "he" clocked us. I think that we startled him as we pulled up next to him at the stop sign and he got mad and wrote us a ticket. He obviously falsified several details on the ticket when he did it. I am going to request a court date for this. I am am not sure if the guy will show but if he does can I request that he brings the footage from his cameras with him? I am assuming that once I prove that the speed limit and location are falsified on the ticket that the judge will throw it out. Should I just hire an attorney? I don't care about the $206, this is about the principal of it. Also, hope I am not coming across as cop bashing. Please understand that if I hated cops I would definitely not be a member here :-) |
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Definitely worth a shot in court IMO. I'd just present the facts; speed limit where you were, coming to a stop, and not on street indicated...that should be enough to toss it. Take the FL Statute with you (they already know it) showing that the penalty for 1-5 mph over limit is a warning.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0318/Sections/0318.18.html |
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Attorneys are expensive, but if the principle means that much to you they can be much more effective at getting the justice you seek.
Also feel free to call the local FHP station and file a complaint with the officer. Be sure to explain you're not mad that you got a ticket, if you were indeed speeding you're a grown up, but he is erroneous in his reporting, etc etc. Desk jockey cops hate field cops that can't do paperwork right - that's how big cases get blown. Rest assured, they still won't care, but it may help some poor sap in the future who gets hemmed up for something he didn't do if there is a paper trail of incompetence. |
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Quoted:
Ticket clinic? X2 $50-$75, & they take care of everything & 99% get you off with no points & no fines. Worth it to not have to deal with that crap yourself. At least you didn't get your weapon taken from you, & returned with the mag out, & the bullets in a bag & then lectured why you need to carry a a gun & how you are a dangerous person..... 
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Is it possible he had someone else parked nearby that caught you on laser/radar and radioed him?
Edit, I see you listed that as possible. That's likely what it was, seeing as the fact that you didn't see anybody doesn't mean anything to be honest (I sit in the median and stop people for running a stop sign 100 feet away and they don't see me, even with my head lights on). Also didn't say if there was a 30mph zone before the location where you turned... 
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Quoted:
X2 $50-$75, & they take care of everything & 99% get you off with no points & no fines. Worth it to not have to deal with that crap yourself. At least you didn't get your weapon taken from you, & returned with the mag out, & the bullets in a bag & then lectured why you need to carry a a gun & how you are a dangerous person..... Quoted:
Quoted:
Ticket clinic? X2 $50-$75, & they take care of everything & 99% get you off with no points & no fines. Worth it to not have to deal with that crap yourself. At least you didn't get your weapon taken from you, & returned with the mag out, & the bullets in a bag & then lectured why you need to carry a a gun & how you are a dangerous person..... This. Ticket clinic is de best. Just got out of a 88 in a 70 with ticket clinic in I95 all i had to pay was court costs.
BUT my Fiance just used TC to fight her speeding ticket which was also falsified according to her since cruise control was on - and she had to pay court costs PLUS driving school, so YMMV |
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All good advice. Sometimes you run into a dipstick, no good, liar. Sometimes you run into a person having a bad day. Sometimes you run into someone who makes a mistake.
I have only run into 2 pieces of crap to n my life(as a civilian). I was leaving a Bucs game(good idea I know) at night. I was on my small 400 Suzuki. The road was covered in orange cones. I stopped, had both hands off the handles and was waiting for the TPD Officer to turn around and direct me. When she turned, it seems to surprise her that I was there, at the white stripe. She motioned me over and started yelling at me to turn off the bike and get off. I ended up with a ticket for failure to stop. I had both feet on the ground and no hands on the bars. Really? I went to traffic school and paid a few bucks. Funny thing is I started at the SO a year later. What was her problem? I have no clue. |
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Cops are human, and make mistakes.
I had a Trooper wave me over after I exited the ramp off 528 and insist I had failed to stop. He didn't write me, I was in uniform , on my way to a duty station, but he was just flat out wrong. I imagine that so many people had rolled the stop sign there that he just saw what he expected to see, even though it didn't happen. |
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Couple of points in no particular order:
FHP is pretty good at showing up in traffic court, at least in my neck of the woods. You can file a request with FHP for the video as it is public record if he had his on (I would expect a small fee to get it if it was on and recording). Take pictures of the speed limit signs in the area you were stopped in and see if you can introduce them in court. Take your wife, as she is a witness. Make sure you inform the hearing officer that you have a witness. If you get a chance and it's open to the public, go watch what happens in traffic hearings. Get a feel for what you will encounter when you get in front of the hearing officer. Perhaps Google map where you actually were and where he said the violation occurred. Print out a copy and mark the locations to show the difference and distance. Perhaps if his observation of the wrong location can be established, it may bring into question the accuracy of the rest of his observations. The officer will basically tell when and where he observed the alleged violation, what was his probable cause for the stop and what action he took. Then you will get to tell the court what happened and the foundation of why you are contesting the citation. Be aware he can amend his citation if he catches the error. Dress appropriately (office casual at least). |
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Good luck. The one time I tried this for a non-speeding infraction, the FHP officer was there. The judge didn't want to hear a word from me. It was a waste of time and more money than reasonable. They've got a racket going, so don't rock the boat. That is the SOP. The OP has a bit of an unusual case, per his description. Yes, OP will most likely go away sad. Something nice about looking the TPD in the eyes and calling her a liar in court though. She looked butt hurt, but I felt better. Judge was not amused, but said nothing.... It was worth it to me. The side of the road is NOT the place to 'prove your case'. |
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That is the SOP. The OP has a bit of an unusual case, per his description. Yes, OP will most likely go away sad. Something nice about looking the TPD in the eyes and calling her a liar in court though. She looked butt hurt, but I felt better. Judge was not amused, but said nothing.... It was worth it to me. The side of the road is NOT the place to 'prove your case'. Quoted:
Quoted:
Good luck. The one time I tried this for a non-speeding infraction, the FHP officer was there. The judge didn't want to hear a word from me. It was a waste of time and more money than reasonable. They've got a racket going, so don't rock the boat. That is the SOP. The OP has a bit of an unusual case, per his description. Yes, OP will most likely go away sad. Something nice about looking the TPD in the eyes and calling her a liar in court though. She looked butt hurt, but I felt better. Judge was not amused, but said nothing.... It was worth it to me. The side of the road is NOT the place to 'prove your case'. This is going to be in Seminole county. I wonder what the SOP there is. Maybe the ticket clinic is the best bet.... |
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I usually get a warning or they cut me a break. I've become a professional ticket taker, though, unfortunately. 
The only bad one was a ticket for my front wheel coming a couple inches off the ground. That hurt. It was $350 or some such.  If I remember right, it's north of $1000 if you do a wheelie now. Don't get caught!
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Quoted:
Couple of points in no particular order: FHP is pretty good at showing up in traffic court, at least in my neck of the woods. You can file a request with FHP for the video as it is public record if he had his on (I would expect a small fee to get it if it was on and recording). Take pictures of the speed limit signs in the area you were stopped in and see if you can introduce them in court. Take your wife, as she is a witness. Make sure you inform the hearing officer that you have a witness. If you get a chance and it's open to the public, go watch what happens in traffic hearings. Get a feel for what you will encounter when you get in front of the hearing officer. Perhaps Google map where you actually were and where he said the violation occurred. Print out a copy and mark the locations to show the difference and distance. Perhaps if his observation of the wrong location can be established, it may bring into question the accuracy of the rest of his observations. The officer will basically tell when and where he observed the alleged violation, what was his probable cause for the stop and what action he took. Then you will get to tell the court what happened and the foundation of why you are contesting the citation. Be aware he can amend his citation if he catches the error. Dress appropriately (office casual at least). If you do this, print them out. You may not be allowed to bring your cell phone into the court house. |
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I keep a dash cam in my car. A G1W or G1WH is worth the $50. Here's a video with a $15 dashcam (I upgraded afterwards) of when I nearly hit a kid on a bicycle (I have a squeaky clutch and you can hear me press it when I see the upcoming hole and start to release it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q77mUtYXbw.
I haven't had a ticket in Florida in well over a decade. The last time I had one, I dressed up, went to court and changed my plea. I had a clean record. Traffic judge gave me an adjudication withheld and I paid court costs. |
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Quoted:
I keep a dash cam in my car. A G1W or G1WH is worth the $50. Here's a video with a $15 dashcam (I upgraded afterwards) of when I nearly hit a kid on a bicycle (I have a squeaky clutch and you can hear me press it when I see the upcoming hole and start to release it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q77mUtYXbw. A truck driver buddy of mine has dash cams in both his rig and POV. In fact a front and rear in his POV. Sounds like a good idea. |
| Another note on the cams when it comes to proving things, I went and visited my girlfriend a couple years ago and got my car towed from the street where I always parked it. I swore that the towing company posted the signs and then towed my car. There were several people at the impound yard and I even carpooled with someone else who had lost their car on the same street. When I pulled the video, the signs were there when I parked and it changed how I felt about having been towed. |
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Quoted: A truck driver buddy of mine has dash cams in both his rig and POV. In fact a front and rear in his POV. Sounds like a good idea. Quoted: Quoted: I keep a dash cam in my car. A G1W or G1WH is worth the $50. Here's a video with a $15 dashcam (I upgraded afterwards) of when I nearly hit a kid on a bicycle (I have a squeaky clutch and you can hear me press it when I see the upcoming hole and start to release it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q77mUtYXbw. A truck driver buddy of mine has dash cams in both his rig and POV. In fact a front and rear in his POV. Sounds like a good idea. I have had a dash cam in all three vehicles for a while now. I have been contemplating putting in rear ones in two of our vehicles that have a plug in the back. |
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Careful with some ticket clinics.... My company has fired drivers because they got a ticket and paid a "ticket clinic" to handle it. The clinic SAID they handled it, but really did nothing and the driver lost his license. Well, they also didn't inform him that he lost his license, so once we found out that he had been driving a company vehicle without a license... We had to fire him.
The idiots at the ticket clinic cost him his job. |
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Quoted:
Couple of points in no particular order: FHP is pretty good at showing up in traffic court, at least in my neck of the woods. You can file a request with FHP for the video as it is public record if he had his on (I would expect a small fee to get it if it was on and recording). Take pictures of the speed limit signs in the area you were stopped in and see if you can introduce them in court. Take your wife, as she is a witness. Make sure you inform the hearing officer that you have a witness. If you get a chance and it's open to the public, go watch what happens in traffic hearings. Get a feel for what you will encounter when you get in front of the hearing officer. Perhaps Google map where you actually were and where he said the violation occurred. Print out a copy and mark the locations to show the difference and distance. Perhaps if his observation of the wrong location can be established, it may bring into question the accuracy of the rest of his observations. The officer will basically tell when and where he observed the alleged violation, what was his probable cause for the stop and what action he took. Then you will get to tell the court what happened and the foundation of why you are contesting the citation. Be aware he can amend his citation if he catches the error. Dress appropriately (office casual at least). Offhand, I'm guessing that there won't be camera footage if the trooper just waved him over on the side of the road - their cameras turn on when they activate emergency lights, and if he never did so and only effected the stop via hand signals, I'm going to speculate that the camera was never activated (and even if it were, what are the odds that the car was pointed in the right direction?). I'd bet that if the road really is 35 throughout that entire area, then it's probably going to be open-and-shut to get it dismissed if he can bring evidence of that to court. |
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IMO when one hires a traffic attorney 99% of the time the attorney goes in and says I'd like to have adjudication withheld, maybe the fine reduced 99% of the time the Judge or magistrate says ok, then he looks to the LE and says ok with you, then 99% of the time the LE says sure. The Attorney just made however much you paid in less than five min. I've seen an attorney go through 8 tickets in less than 30 min with the above process. Makes me want to go to law school! The easiest thing for them to do is just get you no points and pay the fine, will the $90 really get the attorney to go after the Trooper, probably not unless it is glaringly obvious he is wrong.
If you have the time and are slightly articulate anyone can go to traffic, more than likely you'll just have to pay a fine unless your record looks like crap. So, IMO I would go there, look presentable, know the statue, present your case. If it is in fact 35 MPH and he wrote you for 40/30 than that is open and shut. About the only other thing you could do is request to see the Troopers radar log, it must be certified and test done before and after his shift, FHP being heavily traffic enforcement it will more than likely be in compliance. If another trooper clocked you they'll need his radar log. You could also talk to the Trooper before the hearing and tell him, if he realizes he made a mistake he could go ahead and dismiss it and you wouldn't have to wait to get called up. However he could also amend the citation for something else prior to your hearing starting. |
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Quoted:
My wife and I were driving to the store (she was driving) and an FHP trooper standing by the side of the road pulling out a bandit sign waives us down and says that she was speeding. He gives her a $206 ticket for going 40mph in a 30mph. Here is the problem: - The speed limit on that road is 35mph and is clearly marked everywhere. - We were not going anywhere near 40mph. In fact, we were coming to a stop as we got near him since there is a stop sign where he was. - The ticket lists the location as somewhere across town that doesn't have a 30mph speed limit either. - The ticket states that he clocked us with a "Stalker Dual" which seems impossible because he had his back turned to us as we approached and he did not have a radar/laser gun on his person. I understand that he could have had a coworker down the road clocking people but we didn't see anybody and he made a point to say that "he" clocked us. One front window one rear window 
I think that we startled him as we pulled up next to him at the stop sign and he got mad and wrote us a ticket. He obviously falsified several details on the ticket when he did it. I am going to request a court date for this. I am am not sure if the guy will show but if he does can I request that he brings the footage from his cameras with him? I am assuming that once I prove that the speed limit and location are falsified on the ticket that the judge will throw it out. Should I just hire an attorney? I don't care about the $206, this is about the principal of it. Also, hope I am not coming across as cop bashing. Please understand that if I hated cops I would definitely not be a member here :-) Not saying he didn't falsify the details of the stop. That is between you, the court, him and an attorney. I know the agency I am with we have to video all our traffic stops. They get deleted after 90 days unless we classify the video as evidence. I would contact FHP and see if you can get a copy of the traffic stop video if there is one. Public record and all that |
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L Quoted:
IMO when one hires a traffic attorney 99% of the time the attorney goes in and says I'd like to have adjudication withheld, maybe the fine reduced 99% of the time the Judge or magistrate says ok, then he looks to the LE and says ok with you, then 99% of the time the LE says sure. The Attorney just made however much you paid in less than five min. I've seen an attorney go through 8 tickets in less than 30 min with the above process. Makes me want to go to law school! The easiest thing for them to do is just get you no points and pay the fine, will the $90 really get the attorney to go after the Trooper, probably not unless it is glaringly obvious he is wrong. If you have the time and are slightly articulate anyone can go to traffic, more than likely you'll just have to pay a fine unless your record looks like crap. So, IMO I would go there, look presentable, know the statue, present your case. If it is in fact 35 MPH and he wrote you for 40/30 than that is open and shut. About the only other thing you could do is request to see the Troopers radar log, it must be certified and test done before and after his shift, FHP being heavily traffic enforcement it will more than likely be in compliance. If another trooper clocked you they'll need his radar log. You could also talk to the Trooper before the hearing and tell him, if he realizes he made a mistake he could go ahead and dismiss it and you wouldn't have to wait to get called up. However he could also amend the citation for something else prior to your hearing starting. This is the best advise. |
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On the dash cam issue - I can activate mine via my lapel mic, I don't have to be in the car to do it.
They prefer if we catch the violation on camera, but it's not required by any means. It simply makes it harder for the driver to take you to court and deny running the stop sign when there is clear HD video of them doing just that... |