Posted: 5/9/2013 4:32:24 AM EDT
| If you need a trust setup they do that too. I asked about it while I was back as the funds were coming to do it. The only thing they can't do right now is barrel cut downs but they are working on being able to do that in the future. Just thought you guys would like to know. |
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See I don't know how these places get away with setting up trusts. It seems to me that its preparation of legal documents, which would be a lawyer's purview. Not that they couldn't sell the forms for people to fill out for themselves, but somebody else doing it seems like practicing law without a license. I'm probably wrong, but its sketch to me. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had an FFL.
It's good that Shooters World is getting into class III though. |
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See I don't know how these places get away with setting up trusts. It seems to me that its preparation of legal documents, which would be a lawyer's purview. Not that they couldn't sell the forms for people to fill out for themselves, but somebody else doing it seems like practicing law without a license. I'm probably wrong, but its sketch to me. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had an FFL. It's good that Shooters World is getting into class III though. A lawyer named Byron Nenos (He did mine years ago and has held up fine.) does the actual trust write up I believe. |
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See I don't know how these places get away with setting up trusts. It seems to me that its preparation of legal documents, which would be a lawyer's purview. Not that they couldn't sell the forms for people to fill out for themselves, but somebody else doing it seems like practicing law without a license. I'm probably wrong, but its sketch to me. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had an FFL. It's good that Shooters World is getting into class III though. A lawyer named Byron Nenos (He did mine years ago and has held up fine.) does the actual trust write up I believe. Ahh ok, that makes more sense |
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Quoted:See I don't know how these places get away with setting up trusts.
Seems to me that a will or trust that you create yourself, with or without the aid of an attorney, is just as legal as one created by a professional lawyer. So long as the verbiage, format and proper notorization of signatures is applied, shouldn't matter if you use a quicken application, a free web app, Perry Mason, Mickey Mouse or a dude at an LGS. Unless these outside entities are designated trustees or beneficiaries, they don't have any more interest or legal ties to the trust/will than the witnesses who sign their names as having verified your signature. |
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See I don't know how these places get away with setting up trusts. It seems to me that its preparation of legal documents, which would be a lawyer's purview. Not that they couldn't sell the forms for people to fill out for themselves, but somebody else doing it seems like practicing law without a license. I'm probably wrong, but its sketch to me. I certainly wouldn't do it if I had an FFL. It's good that Shooters World is getting into class III though. A lawyer named Byron Nenos (He did mine years ago and has held up fine.) does the actual trust write up I believe. This. Byron did mine a couple of years ago too when Bruce and Joe were at Shoot Straight. |
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I picked up a manila envelope from Shooter's World at the Tactical counter. In it were two forms, and the lawyer's business card. As it has been explained above, Shooter's World is not setting up a trust. They are basically providing a referral for a local attorney who is familiar with Gun Trusts.
Where Shooter's World comes in is when you provide the attorney your personal information and fill out the forms you picked up or do it on line on his website you have the ability to meet up for signatures and notary to formalize your trust. I also used Byron, he was knowledgeable (he has been doing this over 14 years) he was very generous with his time on the phone. After a couple of days we met up at Shooter's World and he had everything ready to go, they have a notary there and also one of the manager's provides the necessary witness signatures. We were done in five minutes. That is all Shooter's Word is doing. Providing you and the lawyer a common place to get it done at their facilities. The money paid to Byron also includes the notary fees etc. Not related to him, or Shooter's World. I am just a client and customer of both. |
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Quoted:See I don't know how these places get away with setting up trusts.
Seems to me that a will or trust that you create yourself, with or without the aid of an attorney, is just as legal as one created by a professional lawyer. So long as the verbiage, format and proper notorization of signatures is applied, shouldn't matter if you use a quicken application, a free web app, Perry Mason, Mickey Mouse or a dude at an LGS. Unless these outside entities are designated trustees or beneficiaries, they don't have any more interest or legal ties to the trust/will than the witnesses who sign their names as having verified your signature. You're allowed to prepare any and all legal documents for yourself. But if you prepare them for someone else, that's practicing law without a license. People sell blank forms, etc. that you can use to type your own stuff up (wills, trusts, etc.) but you can't do that for someone else. Quicken and other software just provide a blank form/database that you can fill in and print out. There's a difference. |
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Is it any different than filing your own taxes or not hiring an attorney in a divorce?
Sure you can form your own corporation, do your own will, trust, and maybe even do your own root canal. There are plenty of templates on the web for almost all legal matters. You can probably apply for a patent and a trademark using those templates. I think places like Legal Zoom are there to fill those needs. The question for me was, would I want to? Considering what all is at stake, and the fact that these toys involve ATF and The Feds and some of the innocent mistakes could lead up to a "felony" charges....I decided spending $300 with a lawyer, it was money well spent. As it was the lawyer brought up few issues pertaining to joint ownership, husband and wife trustee status I hadn't considered. I try not to represent myself in matters of law even though I think I could. Something about "He who has himself for an attorney has a fool for a client." -Abraham Lincoln- If Abe felt foolish representing himself , I can imagine what I would be labeled. He was a lawyer himself, and I am not. |
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He is NOT a "lawyer at Shooter's World". He doesn't work for them.
I got his name and business card from Shooter's Word. We met at Shooter's World for the notarizing and witnessing of our signatures. He was flexible, We could have met at his office and even at Shoot Straight or at Starbuck's for all cared. Since my wife works during the week, meeting at Shooter's World on a Saturday was just convenient for us. The Trust cost me $300 for everything. I have seen similar services advertised by others and some even had tables set up at Tampa Gun Shows. I have seen prices as low as $250 and over $500 for their services. |
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Quoted:But if you prepare them for someone else, that's practicing law without a license. There's a difference.
Yes, I agree that there's a difference, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as you assume it is. The name of the lawyer who drafted my trust doesn't appear anywhere on my trust. In essence, I'm the author of my trust and it's legally binding because I signed it and had it notorized, not because I paid a lawyer to draft it. For binding purposes, it's no different than an LGS employee using his computer and inputting the information you want, you're still the author of the document. The real difference and perhaps why it's a good idea to seek a professional, is the fact that the verbiage will be more accurate and that other caveats that you may not have thought of can be incorporated. Plus, many of the lawyers you've paid to create your trust, will continue to be your advisor and can quickly mitigate any challenges as to the contents and intent of your trust. I'm certainly no lawyer myself and would encourage folks to follow their instincts with regard to legal documents. But, I'll caveat that by saying that there's probably many samples of legal documents that may not necessarily require the use of an attorney; a proprly prepared will or trust could very well be amongst them. When, (if ever) your will or trust is legally challenged to the point of going to court, what are the chances that the law firm who drafted your documents will still be in existence?...rhetorical question actually. |
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So how much does the lawyer charge at shooters world? 300. As others said here they are a referral but once you get it done they can do everything in store related to it in regards to making your class 3 dreams come true. I probably should have put that in the original post but I figured people were smart enough to figure out the store itself wasn't doing it for you. |
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He is NOT a "lawyer at Shooter's World". He doesn't work for them. I got his name and business card from Shooter's Word. We met at Shooter's World for the notarizing and witnessing of our signatures. He was flexible, We could have met at his office and even at Shoot Straight or at Starbuck's for all cared. Since my wife works during the week, meeting at Shooter's World on a Saturday was just convenient for us. The Trust cost me $300 for everything. I have seen similar services advertised by others and some even had tables set up at Tampa Gun Shows. I have seen prices as low as $250 and over $500 for their services. I agree. Those who are capable and confident enough to do their own trust probably and SHOULD do it themselves. Since English is not my native tongue and legalese is a complete different than anything I am familiar with I chose to have someone else do it. Sure, it is my signature on the trust, and I am the grantor and the trustee. I am responsible for everything that happens under that trust. However I have someone I can call and get advice on ATF matters rather than try to decipher them myself. |
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So how much does the lawyer charge at shooters world? 300. As others said here they are a referral but once you get it done they can do everything in store related to it in regards to making your class 3 dreams come true. I probably should have put that in the original post but I figured people were smart enough to figure out the store itself wasn't doing it for you. Maybe I am being naïve, but I can't see what Shooter's World could do for me? They can't give me or get me a stamp I need for a SBR or for a silencer. I am once again at the mercy of ATF. Today I was at Tampa Tactical in Riverview, talked to the guy behind the counter. He may very well have been the owner. He sent his application for a stamp in December, and they haven't even cashed his check yet. That is what the back log is now. I wish I knew what Shooter's World could do so I could ask for favors. |
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I don't know. I never had Shooter's World do any transfers for me. I am sure they probably charge for their notary services. Since I used an attorney THEY recommended, I got the impression the attorney "takes care of the notary". I think all notaries charge a nominal fee, but I am not sure if it is regulated by the state what that fee maybe.
Once the lawyer draws up the Trust, you could have anyone including your own bank notarize your signature. You don't need Shooter's World or anyone particular for that. I had Tampa Tactical Supply LLC in Riverview do two transfers for me. She charged me $20.00 for the first and $10.00 for any subsequent transfers. I thought that was more than fair. |
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So how much does the lawyer charge at shooters world? 300. As others said here they are a referral but once you get it done they can do everything in store related to it in regards to making your class 3 dreams come true. I probably should have put that in the original post but I figured people were smart enough to figure out the store itself wasn't doing it for you. Maybe I am being naïve, but I can't see what Shooter's World could do for me? They can't give me or get me a stamp I need for a SBR or for a silencer. I am once again at the mercy of ATF. Today I was at Tampa Tactical in Riverview, talked to the guy behind the counter. He may very well have been the owner. He sent his application for a stamp in December, and they haven't even cashed his check yet. That is what the back log is now. I wish I knew what Shooter's World could do so I could ask for favors. If he sent his Form 4 into ATF in December, and they haven't cashed his check, then he either sucks at deciphering his bank account, or the postal service never delivered the packet to ATF. Normal procedure for them is to open the packets and cash the checks instantly - within one, maybe two weeks tops. And then contractors enter the information into their database, listing the status of the serial number as "pending". If you send in a form and it isn't in pending status within a month or two, there's definitely a problem somewhere. |
| Went to Shooters World yesterday afternoon. First off they charge goddamn $100 for NFA transfer. Unreasonable. Next, the suppressors they had on stock were marked up well over $150. The TiRant 45 they had was $899. I could get it for $713 SHIPPED from silencershop.com. I'll most likely be taking my NFA business to Florida Firearms Academy. |
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You know something...I am glad you said something about Shooter's World's pricing.
Don't get me wrong. I love the facility. I count myself fortunate that I live here in Tampa area and have access to such a world class facility. But, there has to be a way to convey to the folks at SW, their pricing is not conducive to the gun people who know about on line sales, EE, Gun auctions, gun shows etc. They have plenty of business as it is selling to the first timers. That will carry them for a while. For repeat buyers, collectors and gun fanciers, the place will always lack the business it deserves. I would love to support the local gun shop. I would love to do what I can to help them stay in business because it is such a nice place. I doubt they will sell to the enthusiasts given their pricing. They don't participate at gun shows so there is no way to get a discount from them. They will find themselves showing a lot of customers their goods for hands on fondling only to have the customer go elsewhere or mail order. This reminds me of the days I used to work at a camera shop in Orlando. We had a full line of cameras and lenses. I would spend hours with customers showing them the goods only to have them return to the store a week or so later and show me the camera or the lens they bought from the back pages of a NYC camera shop. Our prices were not competitive enough never mind that we also had to charge sales taxes. Maybe if there is enough whining in here on this thread they will hear about our dissatisfaction and either address the matter or come in here and chime in. I am absolutely sure some of their employees, maybe even Bruce read this forum. |
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I agree. I used to live right around the corner but moved right before they opened so I was very excited to go back and check the place out. I finally got to this past weekend and while i was stunned with the size and selection, I was equally stunned by the pricing. They'll get some of my business for shooting the steel targets and I enjoyed looking at the exhibits set up in the hallway but I just don't see myself purchasing anything there otherwise. I understand a shop of that caliber is going to have some serious overhead and I really wish them the best and all the success in the world but my contribution will be range time only. That said, their pricing hasn't been too far off much smaller operations with a fraction of the overhead so as far as retail space goes, I think they're fair. They just can't compete with ordering online and finding a kitchen table FFL to do the transfer for $15. |
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Maybe if there is enough whining in here on this thread they will hear about our dissatisfaction and either address the matter or come in here and chime in. I am absolutely sure some of their employees, maybe even Bruce read this forum. No but I know a number of people who work there and hell I might end up working there one day when I get out of the Army in a few more years until my aviation career takes off. When I come back in Jan I'll see if I can drop a few whispers in some peoples ears. |
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I regularly speak with one of their employees who posts here (shall remain nameless) and apparently some of the staff feel the same way about pricing. I work very close to SW and stop in there during lunch frequently, and although I have bought some pistol mags there, I've been disappointed in their extremely high prices on Pmags. As the rush has tapered off, a few weeks ago they were sitting on .308 Pmags that were there for weeks because they were priced at $50 apiece, After they started collecting dust, they lowered them to $30 which is still high but they did finally sell at that price. Their 5.56 mags are all $20 and $25 for non-window and window- better than what they were, but still too high.
As a local, I am very happy to have them around- any time we can expose responsible firearms ownership to more people it helps all of us. However, it is a shame that what was hoped to be a better alternative to Shoot Straight has turned into something at least equally absurd if not worse in the pricing arena. There are only so many foolishly rich people in town, and once that crowd moves onto the next fad hopefully SW hasn't lost the blue-collar enthusiasts that they will need to keep this place going. SW execs- if you're reading this, the average shooter is well-educated about MSRP and the "supply and demand" theory only goes so far. Go for base hits all day long instead of swinging for the fences every time... |
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The market on guns and gun parts is not static.
Every since the talk of Gun Control, Universal Background Checks, Ban on Assault Weapons have been in the news we have all watched the market go up and down. It wasn't that long ago people were asking AND getting $300 for a stripped lower, and it wasn't all that unusual to see $400 plus asked and gotten for Bolt Carrier Groups. Today the market is different. While it may still change depending on news and availability no one is paying $295.00 for a generic stripped lower. Not when you can buy Spike's (highly popular and desirable name)Lower for $150-$200 even on Gun Broker. They need to have someone on staff who does nothing else but monitor prices and availability of their goods. They need to make themselves more competitive with what is available to the rest of us with an online order or by phone. I realize they have to make money. This is not a charity nor can they compete with someone selling goods out of their home with no overhead. They have a substantial overhead and investment in their business and I would like nothing better than to see them succeed. Many of us would gladly buy a Glock for $599 now over the counter and take it home with us versus shopping online for one that sells for a few bucks less than that. However if the price difference is $100, you may be surprised how many of us would order it online and wait a couple of days. FFL transfers don't cost as much as the savings on sales taxes. Nothing in what I have posted on this subject is meant to be malicious. I love the place and have already spent plenty of my money there, and will continue to do so. Competition being as steep as it is and the fact that "panic prices" have somewhat subsided, I would like to see them get in the game and take business away from some faceless retailer on Internet rather than lose business to them. Now with Bass Pro Shops coming to Brandon/Tampa area, they will have a formidable competition they currently don't. That too will take a good chunk of non-range business away from SW. I am not a big fan of Shoot Straight either but at least they do have the opportunity to meet the demand for discounted firearms during many many Florida Gun Shows they attend. Those are all lost revenues for Shooter's World. I was in retail for over 25 years at the capacity of a General Manager and do know a thing or two about retail and marketing. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't be the Big Dog and even get into Online Sales and beat others in their own game. If anyone of decision making position from Shooter's World is reading this, I hope you realize the intent and the spirit of my posts as trying to be helpful rather than trying to derail your operations. I would be more than happy to share what I know of retail with you. Just contact me, I will do my utmost best to help for "free Coffee" which I get couple of times a week anyway. |