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Posted: 4/20/2003 8:48:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2003 10:29:46 PM EDT by new-arguy]
FDCC is meeting at the Lake City Range this coming Sunday. 9:30 just like usual. Be there or be left out!
Link Posted: 4/21/2003 9:18:42 AM EDT
COF's are looking pretty good...



Dirk
Link Posted: 4/24/2003 12:35:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 6:34:44 AM EDT
Eat your wheaties tonight boys...



Dirk
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 5:03:37 PM EDT
I'll be there, all hopped up on Krispy Kremes.
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 5:52:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GoGators:
I'll be there, all hopped up on Krispy Kremes.



Make sure you bring enough for everyone! I like the jelly filled.
Link Posted: 4/26/2003 6:58:09 PM EDT

Can't wait!
Link Posted: 4/29/2003 5:13:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2003 5:50:39 PM EDT by M4Real]
Great shoot guys. Those were killer COF's. I've never seen so many hostages killed in one day. Hell, I killed one myself. My first one ever. Thanks Dirk for the time you spent planning the COF's and everyone else that helped set everything up.

Now. Where are those pics?
Link Posted: 4/29/2003 10:19:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2003 11:23:29 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Great time all. Thanks so much to everyone who comes out, and especially all of you who do so much to make sure things move along. Thanks to Paul for bringing his laptop along. Becasue of that, I was able to download the pics off my camera onto a cd, and then clean my cameras memory. This allowed me to.... *TAKE EVEN MORE PICS!!!* These are all just small size pics, if any of you want to see the full size pics, you can go here to get them

www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290270813

Holy smokes, it took me like 3 hours to put this post together!! Here we go!

We had a little smaller group this time, which enables us (i.e. SAM!) to develop a little more involved and elaborate courses.


Somehow there was a closeup that cut most of us out?? Oh well, here it is anyway;


Some jerk jumed first in line.


Dan was back this month ready to shoot!!!


Excellent technique leaning around the corner and not crowding the cover


Andy at the ready


Sometime around now he made a shot that caused us all some confusion


Whose around the corner?


OK here's the confusing shot. The brown cardboard target is a no shoot. Man, he knicked it just ever so slightly. Notice the bullet skimmed the wood and can you see how it keyholed into the shoot target behind? The confusion was do we count this as a hit on the no shoot? It is outside of the prefforation of the target, but it is on the target? We charged him with it in the end. What do you think?


Chuck getting some trigger time


Norm with the Daewoo!


Dont hit the good guy!


Bryan makes his mag change...


And gets back to business


Good to see Steve back out there with us


And shooting well!


Knreeling to utilize cover, GREAT!


The way the last target was positioned, you really had to get out from behind cover and expose yourself.


Any shoot that Burney comes too is sure to be an experience


You can just hear the Gemtec whisper "pfft! pfft! pfft!"


Shoot all you want Burney, I got your back! If you were there you would know what I mean!


Vince takes a turn with a subgun


Can you tell what kind? I didnt know.


Capt Monty!


of SAR fame!


Bruce is back with the AR this month


Twisting through the maze of targets


Anthony is dressed like he is glad the weather was better than it has been in the last 4 shoots!


Heres a Waynes World EXTREME CLOSE UP of that picture. You can see the brass just being ejected from the port! Cool!


Mr Greens!!!


Low creep around the corner, awesome!


Hawkeye is up!


Move out to the next position


Slice the pie


Analyzing which targets need to have holes in them and which dont


Moving to the next position and a mag change


Wanda's picture of the same mag change


New mags in and engage the next set of targets


Keep moving, keep shooting!


Unload and show clear


Wanda's up!


Get the first targets out at 30 yards or so


Fill em full a 9mm!


Paul's up. Another one of my band of deadly waiters!!!


Dig the Gilligan hat!


This is one of my favorite pics from the day.


Im not exactly sure why a few pics were so out of focus? Still kinda cool
Link Posted: 4/29/2003 10:21:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2003 11:27:36 PM EDT by new-arguy]
Nate gives new meaning to the term nose to charging handle!


A close up of this pic reaveals that...


He got his nose maybe a little TOO close! Can you see the blood dripping down his nose?


All of this and the bandaid on his nose wins Nate the FDCC's ugliest shooter award!


Mike at the mag change


And back in business


Another mag change!


And quickly back to the course


You can see the brass flying up by the Aimpoint!


John2 unloads and shows clear.


Look at this idiot!


I was the first one up on thei course, and everyone was saying how careful we needed to be. It absolutely killed my time, but I crept around every corner and sliced every pie, tried to use as much cover as I could, and finished without killing anyone I want supposed to, and finished this one without a penalty!


After transitioning to my left shoulder, I crept around this corner


After seeing what was out there and realizing there was an opening at the bottom of the wall, I just ducked down under it and took the shots from there! I didnt know my body would twist like that! Notice in pictures fter me, they covered this opening up. Hahaha, always cheat! Always win!


I was still able to use those two barricades far ahead of me as excellent cover from nearly all the hostiles!


I couldnt get them all from there though and eventaully had to advance to another position


One day I will remember my height over bore and successfully shoot through small openings like that without blasting the wall!!! Yikes!


Ok, there you go, now you are hitting the targets, not the wall! What an idiot.


There was literally no way you could get this last target hiding behind a no shoot without leaving your cover to get a good angle


OK, OK, well, at least my idiocy of shooting the cover resulted in a cool pic. If you ever wondered why they called the Vortex flash suppressors VORTEX, this picture of the muzzle blast might give you an idea. Sorta cool huh?


M4Real rounds the corner


From the other side


Andy is in one of my other favorite pics from the day


Check moves through the hallway and into a sea of targets. Probably only half of which you were supposed to shoot


Little closer view


Bryan maneuvers around the corner and into the unknown


Little further back


Norm again


Steve enters the hall after checking the right corner


After going though the hall, Steve hits the madness!


Burney enters the doorway and swings left


Then turns right and is faced with a lot of quick thinking


Finishing up
Link Posted: 4/29/2003 10:22:47 PM EDT
Belive it or not, there are 8 different targets in this picture of Vince. Only 3 of which you were supposed to shoot. And this picture doesnt even show all of them!


Monty gave it a go again. He had the fewest overall penalties (only 1) of the day! Awesome shooting.


Bruce rounds the corner


And engages the targets


Whitehorse!


We were changing the positions and number of targets without the shooters knowldge. If you didnt check the shallow right hand corner before entering the hallway, you may (or may not) have missed one hiding low in the corner. Strazz got em!


Mr Greens turns left into the hall


Here you can see 12 targets, and even this shot only shows a portion of that you were faced with.


David is about to discover Osama hiding on him. You'll notice this is the first time you see this target in that position. Moving them around in creative and suprising places was a lot of fun.


David's a die hard SKS guy, and it is impressive the way he manipulates the stripper clips on reloads.


John checks the shallow right corner before entering


After wiping out Osama, John moves into the madness.


Look to Johns right, can you see the other target we had hidden over in the corner. While John saw it, we had to remind a lot of other people to "scan right... scan right, no, scan ALL THE WAY right!" hahaha!


Another one of my favorite pics from the day


Mr Hawkeye stands behind Mrs Hawkeye


Wanda creeps left to see whats right and plugs Osama!


Cool shirt Wanda!!! "Guns Save Lives!"


The sun must've been right in my face!


Paul was doing a lot of the target patching up to this point. So he know where they all were and which you neededto shoot and which you didnt. So when it was his turn we really had to mix the targets all up.


You cant see it too well, but there was a target of a guy laying down pointing a gun at you. We just laid that target right on the ground and it looked pretty cool. Paul nailed him too!


The magnification of the ACOGs really really helped those of us using them to more quickly determine which targets were hostile and which were not.


Gangsta nate with the Tommy gun


Another out of focus picture. Sorry Mike


How did you like the Aimpoint?


Let the head to head shoot out begin!


Near to far; Bryan, Hawkeye and Steve


John moves on to the next heat in the shoot out


Unloading


Near to Far; Bruce, Andy, Hawkeye and John2 during the final heat of the head to head shoot out. John2 took it this month!
Link Posted: 4/29/2003 10:41:50 PM EDT
You need to put post two in a new thread, I think you exceeded your allowable number of pics. All I get is x's. First post is pretty damn cool.
Link Posted: 4/29/2003 11:06:07 PM EDT
I need to move to Florida. St. Louis sucks.

new-arguy, your friends, shooting club or whatever rocks! Hats off to you sir
Link Posted: 4/29/2003 11:32:05 PM EDT
all three posts and all pics are showing for me?
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 3:44:14 AM EDT
In the first post you show a picyure of a target that was nicked but did not break the perforation . That is not a no-shoot penalty if you are using USPSA rules to score targets just as if he had hit a viable target it would not be scored but rather a miss would be scored . Since this was not an USPSA match (I am assuming since you kept it pretty tactical) you can score it any way you see fit . In my mind if you can fix it with a band-aid its not a no-shoot (come on , if you were in a hostage situation and had to take one in the shoulder or arm to take out the perp you would be O.K. with this , right??). Just my .02 but it looks like a heck of a good time .
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 4:15:09 AM EDT
I wanna party with you cowboys! Man, that looks like fun. Looks like you have a nice club going there. If I'm ever down that way, I'll be calling you guys up.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 5:09:54 AM EDT
Thanks for posting all the pics Neil. Definitely a good shoot. Gave me some good ideas for next month. Sam, I need to get with you on them.

In this picture, you'll notice I am standing a bit sideways. Thats because when I went to engage the Saddam target to my low right, I noticed I was empty. I had to jump back behind cover to do my mag change and then swing back out to nail him. Really makes you move into akward positions. I love it.



Link Posted: 4/30/2003 5:19:57 AM EDT
Great stuff! The mystery subgun appears to be either a Walther MPL or MPK.

Is it just me or are your ACOGs slowly multiplying there at FDCC? Can you breed ACOGs?
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 5:40:10 AM EDT
Holy fu<c sh1t dam^ he11 cr/\p that looks like fun!

When the hell we going to do that here in VA?

--LS
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 5:58:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2003 5:59:22 AM EDT by TheRicker]
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 6:06:06 AM EDT
Very nice pictures. However, in CQB with an AR-15 or a non-collapsible M-4, the current method being taught is to actually ride the butt of the rifle ON TOP of your right shoulder, to limit the possibility of a bad guy grabbing the barrel of your gun as your turn the corner. Looks odd, but that's how they are teaching them CQB these days.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 6:41:13 AM EDT
Hawkeye,

You thought that YOU were empty and had reload problems? Neil is the MAN! Maybe one shoot I will be able to maintain FIRE DISCIPLINE..., or maybe an ammo bearer will be allowed?

Vince was shooting a Walther MPL.

As to CQB techniques, I would like to have a perp grab ahold of my barrel/can when I rounded a corner. If he got away, the branding would be an easy id.

Great job to everyone, the shoots are getting better and better!
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 7:03:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/30/2003 7:07:32 AM EDT by Hawkeye]

Originally Posted By burney:
Hawkeye,

You thought that YOU were empty and had reload problems? Neil is the MAN! Maybe one shoot I will be able to maintain FIRE DISCIPLINE..., or maybe an ammo bearer will be allowed?

Vince was shooting a Walther MPL.

As to CQB techniques, I would like to have a perp grab ahold of my barrel/can when I rounded a corner. If he got away, the branding would be an easy id.

Great job to everyone, the shoots are getting better and better!



No, no problems, just caught me by suprise . Yes, you do have a bit of an advantage with the Gemtech. Well, that combined with a bit of index finger lock. It definitely gets a bit "warm". By the way, that lever on the left side if your rifle by your thumb, it has TWO different fire positions. M4Real has passed the crown to our new target hoser.

Ammo caddy....
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 7:37:24 AM EDT
Why can't I live in FL?


ITs not fair I tell ya, not fair [cry]
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 8:01:09 AM EDT
HA! I didnt even notice this earlier.






Neil takes out the wall...........EXECUTION style!!
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 12:25:58 PM EDT
I have a DSL high speed line and WOW,,,, it still took a long time to load all those pics.
COOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL.
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 6:18:48 PM EDT
Neil,

Thanks for always putting on a good shoot. It was fun. That second COF was ridiculous. I even shot the cop in the face! Hats off to everyone else too.

Scott
Link Posted: 4/30/2003 9:12:55 PM EDT
Just so a lot of you know, I want to take this opportunity to explain FDCC a little to all of our readers. The shot Andy made that hardly knicked the no shoot illustrates something most people dont know about FDCC. Here's the example.

We certainly dont use USPCA rules. I dont even know what they are. And I would venture to guess that if someone petitioned the group to use them I would probably strongly object. What we do is not tightly organized, nor do I really care for it to be. While we try hard to run a safe event, I am also pretty determined not to let myself or anyone else take FDCC so seriously as to burden ourselves with intricate rules and regulations.

To me, bottom line is, this is for fun. We dont penalize someone when they run like a speed demon around the corner or dont use cover. Its not a class, or training. Do I try to take advantage of the scenarios we set up to practice good tactics and technique. Heck yeah, any chance I get. Would I encourage others to do the same? You bet. Do I care if they dont? Not in the slightest.

Andy took a shot and knicked a no-shoot. I decided to charge him with it. Andy is a regular shooter with us and I told him I'd be inclined to give him a pass. However, not an hout before this shot happened, I clearly explained to everyone in the pre-shoot discussion, if you hit the no shoot at all, we charge you. I also said the opposite is true. If you knick a shoot target at all, we'll give it to you. If you knick the vital zone *at all*, even if you just barely are touching the vital zone and 99/100ths of your shot is outside, we'll give it to you. So it works both ways.

Anyhow, the point is its for fun. There is nothing at all at stake here. If there were, I might agree on the need for more rules and regulations. But as it stands, FDCC is just a bunch of shooters hanging out having a cool time with fun people who own some really great guns. The fact that you get to shoot a few courses is just the icing on the cake. I've knicked a couple in my time and I could hardly care. I hope the people who join us all feel the same way. I think thats part of the FDCC attitude and environment that so many people enjoy about our shoot. I think its a big reason why almost anyone who comes, comes back. Why they feel completely at ease bringing their kids, friends, nephews, nieces, sons, daughters, wives, husbands, girlfriends, boyfriends etc. etc. Folks with egos or something to proove generally dont fare very well with our group.

Coincidentally, when I decided to make any hit on a target count, I'd like for folks to know it wasnt just on a whim or because I felt like it. It was based on a post over at Glocktalk.com discussing how these IDPA/IPSC targets were designed. I recall Andy Stanford participating in the discussion rather heavily for whatever thats worth. The conclusion was that the actual physical part of the target and its corners did not represent the corners of a human torso. Rather, they only represented the actual hit zones that mattered. If you were to overlay the 2-D target on a 2-D representation of an average human torso you would see that the edges of the target did not represent the edges of the arms or shoulders. Only the actual "meat" if you will of a person. It was with this in mind that I decided to count *all* hits as hits. With this in mind, it reveals that knicking the very edge of the target doesnt imply that you knicked the very edge of a human size torso. It means you alomst missed enough so that it would be a mere flesh wound. But the fact is that you hit something that matters, if only just slightly.

OK, end of FDCC history 101. Any of you guys are welcome to come out and shoot with us. In additon to all the fun we have, and all the good company, its 100% free and 100% open to the public. Come and shoot with us any time!
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 5:02:55 AM EDT
Ditto what New-arguy said. Personally, I use every chance to shoot as a chance to train, and hone skills. However, its a personal choice on my part, and its nice that should I just not feel like it, I can just shoot for the heck of shooting, and not think twice about it. Certain un-named people would give me grief, but thats ok. I'll just forget to remind them to take their Acog cover off . I am way harder on myself than just about anyone else could be. Bottom line, FDCC is all about having a good time together shooting. You get no more or less out of it than what you want to put into it. The lack of rules and relaxed atmospere make for a very nice time for practically anyone.
Perfect example. My wife really wanted to start shooting with us, but was somewhat hesitant to do it. She didnt want to look bad in front of a lot of guys that have been shooting for some time, and her being a new rifle shooter. I assured her it was all fun and no one would say anything to her, and if they did, they would have to deal with me . She started shooting, and now, is as hooked as the rest of us, and to boot, is becoming such a good shot that she can hang with the best of us. Now she is having a good time, but is getting valuable training and trigger time to boot. Personally, I feel that too many "rules" cant be a hinderance sometimes. Besides, there are no rules in real life. You improvise, adapt, and overcome. The only goal is to be the one left standing.
End of FDCC lesson 102.
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 5:19:18 AM EDT
Where in Florida do you guys and gals get together? How frequently do you meet for shoots?


Oh yea, when is the next one?
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 5:23:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BookHound:
Where in Florida do you guys and gals get together? How frequently do you meet for shoots?


Oh yea, when is the next one?




Last sunday of every month, unless stated otherwise. We shoot at the free range in Lake City here in north FL run by the FL game commission. Next shoot is going to be May 25th. Where in GA are you at?
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 5:38:24 AM EDT
I'm in Northeast Georgia (northern Gwinnett County if you have any idea where that is located). About 60 miles northeast of Atlanta, so North Florida sounds pretty good.

This is the address of the Mall of Georgia:

3333 Buford Drive Buford, GA 30519

I live about 10 minutes north of it. Do you have an address for the range I could use to get a sense of trip time from MapQuest?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 5:45:29 AM EDT
Wow Neil, this has to be your best photo layout yet. You should be photographing and writing for a gun magazine or a swat team the way you run that second course. I see now that I'm going to have to work on my left hand shooting some more to clear those corners.

That was some funny shit when Burney emptied 3 mags 3/4 of the way through the course and ran out of ammo, Neil never hesitated, he whipped out another mag, handled it to Burney and the bad guys started falling again. It's those impromptu events that I love to see guys react to. It shows even us amateurs with continuing self training can become pretty good gunners.

As far as the COF's, gentlemen there's a method to our madness...



Dirk

Link Posted: 5/1/2003 5:50:01 AM EDT
I did a MapQuest search using just Lake City as the city and it gave me a map that ended in northern FL. Total time from my house is 325 miles. I might see if any other GA boys want to head down there some time.

Maybe we’ll see you guys in the near future. Until then, keep posting pics and stories!
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 6:01:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dirk_Pitt:
Wow Neil, this has to be your best photo layout yet. You should be photographing and writing for a gun magazine or a swat team the way you run that second course. I see now that I'm going to have to work on my left hand shooting some more to clear those corners.

That was some funny shit when Burney emptied 3 mags 3/4 of the way through the course and ran out of ammo, Neil never hesitated, he whipped out another mag, handled it to Burney and the bad guys started falling again. It's those impromptu events that I love to see guys react to. It shows even us amateurs with continuing self training can become pretty good gunners.

As far as the COF's, gentlemen there's a method to our madness...



Dirk




I have an idea for a COF for next month. Need to get with you sometime on it.
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 7:23:13 PM EDT
NEW-ARGUY , I was not criticizing the way you run your match . I saw the post and noted the mention of some confusion , but with your post about how you explain the rules clears it up . I shoot USPSA 3-gun (Rifle , shotgun and pistol), tactical shotgun and practical pistol . Since the guys I shoot with all shoot USPSA we tend to follow there safety and scoring rules even when shooting non-sanctioned events just because that is what we are familiar with . I know what you mean about it being no place for an ego as we have some of the top 3-gun , IDPA , USPSA and law enforcement shooters in the nation shoot at our matches and it definitely opens your eyes to what can be done with a firearm . Some people shoot it tactically and others go for pure speed . I figure any trigger time is time well spent depending on what you hope to get out of it . I hope to take a Florida vaction one winter just so I can come down and see all the awesome ranges and wear a t-shirt while its sub-zero at home .
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 7:51:09 PM EDT
All I can say is it looks like a freaking blast. Keep it up!
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 8:26:26 PM EDT
Paraman, I didnt really suspect you were being critical, but I did take the opportunity to elaborate a little on FDCC philosophy .

Lots of folks around the country contact me about what we do, what we're about, how we organize, etc. Most of the people who contact me do so from reading these posts. So I wanted to put a little of that in here explaining our relaxed technical rules and why we have them.
Link Posted: 5/1/2003 11:18:38 PM EDT
Well, often with a lot of pics in one thread I start getting red x's. Probably just my 42k connection.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 4:17:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2003 4:18:42 AM EDT by M4Real]

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Certain un-named people would give me grief, but thats ok. I'll just forget to remind them to take their Acog cover off.



Now Hawkeye, you know I would never give you any grief. Thanks again for telling me my ACOG cover was still on. That saved me few seconds at least. Love you man.
M4Real


P.S. Your wife is awesome with that 9mm AR.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 4:47:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Real:

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Certain un-named people would give me grief, but thats ok. I'll just forget to remind them to take their Acog cover off.



Now Hawkeye, you know I would never give you any grief. Thanks again for telling me my ACOG cover was still on. That saved me few seconds at least. Love you man.
M4Real







P.S. Your wife is awesome with that 9mm AR.



Wait until she is set up with her new M1 Carbine.

Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:33:07 PM EDT
That last FDCC meetin' was a good'n. I'm hoping to leave the SKS at home sometime, but I don't want to neglect it. I've got an AR lower, now all I have to do is decide on a good upper. (Dissipator, mmmm)
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