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Posted: 3/24/2011 10:26:17 AM EDT
| I am thinking about getting the pistol to sbr. I see it already takes 30 round mags. I know it won't accept a registered sear. Is there anything else I should know about these? I assume they take all other hk parts; extract, magazines, Ect? |
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Buddy of mine bought the SP89 version. His shows marks on the receiver from a grinder or sander of some sort but otherwise looks OK.
It's not a German gun in the appearance department but function wise it's been flawless. It's a shame they have that FA carrier block in them. |
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Quoted: I am thinking about getting the pistol to sbr. I see it already takes 30 round mags. I know it won't accept a registered sear. Is there anything else I should know about these? I assume they take all other hk parts; extract, magazines, Ect? MKE is the Turkish contact manufacturer for HK. |
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ATI is the exclusive importer.
We distribute them to these wholesalers: ATI National Distributors These distributors sell them to gun stores. |
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Quoted: Buddy of mine bought the SP89 version. His shows marks on the receiver from a grinder or sander of some sort but otherwise looks OK. It's not a German gun in the appearance department but function wise it's been flawless. It's a shame they have that FA carrier block in them. And it's a shame that removing it constitutes creation of a new machinegun. What a stupid rule. I thought long and hard about the MKE clones before settling on a CA94. The sear block is what put me over the top. Every other review on the line was positive. |
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I have one and love it, but to be honest with you, it has had the following done:
RCM 3 lugged barrel Semi block welded on all welds cleaned up refinish correct MP5 rear drum sight remarked MP5K-N It worked fine before all the custom touches, but now feels and looks like a much nicer gun. I can also use my suppressor now.  Even with all the work and SBR paperwork and 922r parts, I have right at $2000 into it. If you want a full auto at some point, this is not the gun for you. The military has given me 21 years of full auto. I have no desire to own one myself.
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Quoted:
I have one and love it, but to be honest with you, it has had the following done: RCM 3 lugged barrel Semi block welded on all welds cleaned up refinish correct MP5 rear drum sight remarked MP5K-N It worked fine before all the custom touches, but now feels and looks like a much nicer gun. I can also use my suppressor now. Even with all the work and SBR paperwork and 922r parts, I have right at $2000 into it. If you want a full auto at some point, this is not the gun for you. The military has given me 21 years of full auto. I have no desire to own one myself.You had the CHOPSTIX magic poured on it! 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have one and love it, but to be honest with you, it has had the following done: RCM 3 lugged barrel Semi block welded on all welds cleaned up refinish correct MP5 rear drum sight remarked MP5K-N It worked fine before all the custom touches, but now feels and looks like a much nicer gun. I can also use my suppressor now. Even with all the work and SBR paperwork and 922r parts, I have right at $2000 into it. If you want a full auto at some point, this is not the gun for you. The military has given me 21 years of full auto. I have no desire to own one myself.You had the CHOPSTIX magic poured on it!
Yep....I sure did. How are you brother?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have one and love it, but to be honest with you, it has had the following done: RCM 3 lugged barrel Semi block welded on all welds cleaned up refinish correct MP5 rear drum sight remarked MP5K-N It worked fine before all the custom touches, but now feels and looks like a much nicer gun. I can also use my suppressor now. Even with all the work and SBR paperwork and 922r parts, I have right at $2000 into it. If you want a full auto at some point, this is not the gun for you. The military has given me 21 years of full auto. I have no desire to own one myself.You had the CHOPSTIX magic poured on it!
Yep....I sure did. How are you brother?
I'm good...3 days, and then catch the freedom bird home! |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Buddy of mine bought the SP89 version. His shows marks on the receiver from a grinder or sander of some sort but otherwise looks OK. It's not a German gun in the appearance department but function wise it's been flawless. It's a shame they have that FA carrier block in them. And it's a shame that removing it constitutes creation of a new machinegun. What a stupid rule. I thought long and hard about the MKE clones before settling on a CA94. The sear block is what put me over the top. Every other review on the line was positive. Do you have that in writing from BATFE? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Buddy of mine bought the SP89 version. His shows marks on the receiver from a grinder or sander of some sort but otherwise looks OK. It's not a German gun in the appearance department but function wise it's been flawless. It's a shame they have that FA carrier block in them. And it's a shame that removing it constitutes creation of a new machinegun. What a stupid rule. I thought long and hard about the MKE clones before settling on a CA94. The sear block is what put me over the top. Every other review on the line was positive. Do you have that in writing from BATFE? Removing any kind of sear block from a weapon constitutes creation of a new MG. Same thing with Uzis and the blocking bar, same thing with these MKE guns - it's common knowledge in the NFA world. I'm sure I can find it in writing - or just post up in the Class 3 forum for verification. |
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Just like removing the sear block from an AR constitutes crea... oh yeah. No it doesn't.
Brother I have a little experience in the NFA world and a tad with HK type weapons. I asked the question because I have yet to see anyone produce anything other than assumptions on that point. Until these guns came along and tossed in an anomaly the only thing that made a 90 series HK receiver a MG was the front push pin hole. Now, these still have the blocked front pin but it's done in such a way as to still allow the attachment of an unmodified trigger housing (not pack) and some of the earliest guns I understnad have the through hole only partially plugged but also incorporate the carrier block. This has raised some questions concerning the legality of removing the block as it adds the additional layer of prevention. Now if you go by precedent concerning what is and isn't a MG removing it shouldn’t be a problem any more than modifying a trigger housing to go over a shelf would be. That said, since this incarnation is so new it's hard to say how BATFE is going to "interpret" removing the plate. If it were me making decisions, I’d say cut the bastard out so long as the through hole is welded up properly but I’m not so I want to see what ATF says. |
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Quoted: Just like removing the sear block from an AR constitutes crea... oh yeah. No it doesn't. Brother I have a little experience in the NFA world and a tad with HK type weapons. I asked the question because I have yet to see anyone produce anything other than assumptions on that point. Until these guns came along and tossed in an anomaly the only thing that made a 90 series HK receiver a MG was the front push pin hole. Now, these still have the blocked front pin but it's done in such a way as to still allow the attachment of an unmodified trigger housing (not pack) and some of the earliest guns I understnad have the through hole only partially plugged but also incorporate the carrier block. This has raised some questions concerning the legality of removing the block as it adds the additional layer of prevention. Now if you go by precedent concerning what is and isn't a MG removing it shouldn’t be a problem any more than modifying a trigger housing to go over a shelf would be. That said, since this incarnation is so new it's hard to say how BATFE is going to "interpret" removing the plate. If it were me making decisions, I’d say cut the bastard out so long as the through hole is welded up properly but I’m not so I want to see what ATF says. I'm not new to the game either.  Here's a thread on HK Pro: http://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?116530-MKE-Full-Auto-Carrier-Block-Removal/ A relevant post from pg2: Additional letters from ATF are really not necessary. ATF (in particular FTB) has *always* held that machine guns are: "...weapons that shoot, are designed to shoot, or can readily be restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot without manual reloading by a single function of the trigger." The act of removing the features that prevent the readily restored part would be construed as the making of a post sample machine gun. Which features vary from platform to platform. I have no idea what the response would be to marrying a registered sear (or the like) with a receiver so modified. Remove items at your own peril. Granted - the letter is only binding to the person it is addressed to and "readily restored" can vary wildly. Do with it what you will. I'm not tempting fate for 10 years in FedPen and a $250,000 fine. ETA: I'd also add that the AR platform also has certain modifications which make it an illegal machine gun. Third hole for example. The ATFs rules are arbitrary and do not make sense - but we have to follow them or face the possibility of huge fines and jail time. ETA 2: Chopstix had this to say: On the issue of the SL8, Dave hit the nail on the head... even after a rear section conversion, a F/A carrier will not fit, thus if you were to install a F/A trigger pack (which will fit) the rifle will not fire at all as there is not a F/A carrier to hit the sear trip to set the sear/hammer. In order to make a F/A carrier fit the SL8, you have to remove some of the material inside the receiver... same concept of removing the block. So my thoughts are: Remove the material in the SL8 rec to fit a F/A carrier... you just made a machine gun. Remove the block in an MKE rec to fit a F/A carrier... you just made a machine gun. |
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Didn't say you were.
I know the rules as well and like I said, what makes a 90s series receiver a MG is the pin hole, period. Same with the AR. Your example of the SL8 doesn't necessarily hold water because it's an SL8 not a 90 series. You seem to be comparing apples to oranges. Bottom line is that until this gun (MKE) there were no questions, it was cut and dry. And I know how arbitrary the rules are and this is why I want to see it in writing. My theory is that so long as the pin hold is perminantly sealed it shouldn't be an issue. I agree that it's tempting fate to do anything without ATF approval but at the same time it's not something that has been addressed either way and not being illegal means that it is legal. It really just comes down to whither or not you want to be the test case. Personally I don't care if it's there or not as I don't run a HK sear but it would be nice to be able to if you did have one. I just want ATF to make a damn official ruling. |
| I SBR'd the MKE version of the SP89 into a PDW. Ghillie changed out the barrel and I added a Choate Stock as well as a SEF Navy lower, once the Form 1 came in. Sure, it isn't as pretty as my HK93, but my guns are tools not safe queens. As long as it functions 100% and it is accurate (and the MKE is both) that's all that matters to me. |
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The ATF letter and pictures here seem pretty clear cut.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=356&t=183748 Quoted:
Didn't say you were. I know the rules as well and like I said, what makes a 90s series receiver a MG is the pin hole, period. Same with the AR. Your example of the SL8 doesn't necessarily hold water because it's an SL8 not a 90 series. You seem to be comparing apples to oranges. Bottom line is that until this gun (MKE) there were no questions, it was cut and dry. And I know how arbitrary the rules are and this is why I want to see it in writing. My theory is that so long as the pin hold is perminantly sealed it shouldn't be an issue. I agree that it's tempting fate to do anything without ATF approval but at the same time it's not something that has been addressed either way and not being illegal means that it is legal. It really just comes down to whither or not you want to be the test case. Personally I don't care if it's there or not as I don't run a HK sear but it would be nice to be able to if you did have one. I just want ATF to make a damn official ruling. |
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