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Posted: 4/6/2009 12:57:34 PM EDT
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I hope I have the right forum. Wasn't quite sure where to put this one.
I was wondering about a short-barrelled, semi-auto MP-5 (or clone). - Availability? - Sources? - Prices? - Manufacturers to avoid? - Anything else that would be relevant or useful. I don't have any experience with these, except renting one at a local range for me & my daughter to shoot. I've been thinking it could be a cool addition to the collection. Thanx. |
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The Coharie Arms guns are the current MP5 flavored offerings from Todd Bailey. I have a friend in the Charleston with two of them. One is the K model pistol and the other a full size rifle, both in 9mm.
I own a full size Coharie in 10mm along with a HK SP89 configured as a MP5K with my FA trigger pack. The stock clones run pretty good but there are some issues verses the German guns. We both just returned from KCR and are all jacked up and ready to hit the range but it will be at least two weeks before I can go. You're welcome to try my guns and I'm sure I could borrow the FS 9mm rifle as well. I was all set to buy another 9mm host pistol from Michael Otte at KCR but decided to do a custom build on a LSC flat and a MP5 parts kit with another smith. It'll be some time before that one is done however. Oh and I shoot outdoors not at ATP. I guess we could hit Trader World but the last time I shot there (a Saturday) FA was not permitted. Let me know if I can help you. |
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Any that ACTUALLY exist came from Todd, AKA Toad Bailey.. special weapons stay far away from this scummer, and manufactures that use his parts. I've been contemplating the purchase of a Coharie CA89 or CA89K, but after reading your post I'm a bit concerned. What gives???? |
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Any that ACTUALLY exist came from Todd, AKA Toad Bailey.. special weapons stay far away from this scummer, and manufactures that use his parts. I've been contemplating the purchase of a Coharie CA89 or CA89K, but after reading your post I'm a bit concerned. What gives???? Go to HKpro.com and ask. Good site to look at if you are interested in a clone. |
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Any that ACTUALLY exist came from Todd, AKA Toad Bailey.. special weapons stay far away from this scummer, and manufactures that use his parts. I've been contemplating the purchase of a Coharie CA89 or CA89K, but after reading your post I'm a bit concerned. What gives???? A lot of people passionately hate him (Todd Bailey). So they give people bogus/biased technical advice based on this emotional baggage. The fact of the matter is that the Coharie line of guns are pretty good. There are the occasional mistakes but they've been fixing any problems and returning them pretty quickly. Price is about $1,500. I have two of the CA89 guns and one CA89K. They all work well and I've never had to get anything done to any of them. There seems to have been a little bit of quality problems recently (last two months) but I think this was due to them getting bombarded with tons of orders and trying to pump too many out too fast. Some rusty parts showed up so I think they were emptying out parts bins trying to complete some of them. It was small stuff though like hammer springs. Ghilliebear, over at HKPro, makes pretty nice guns too. He's into custom work and really likes to experiment. His prices are reasonable for his services and you can special order stuff. Price on an MP5 pistol from a demilled MP5 kit is about $2,600. I think he uses LSC flats. Atlantic Firearms is/was offering a MP5 pistol built up from a demilled MP5. It is built by Investment Grade Firearms. Price is about $2,700. The builder is a guy named Jayson at IGF. He normally builds very good quality guns, but the first one from AF was cock-eyed at the rear of the receiver. It had a couple of other problems so the guy sent it back. I haven't heard follow-up reports. Jayson claimed that it was due to the use of a Special Weapons/Coharie receiver flat and that they are defective. This was quickly squelched by Ghilliebear, who built one up that looked and functioned great with the SW receiver flat. Not sure what current status on this is. Jayson might have just gotten a defective flat though because he seems to be a pretty stand-up guy and I'd give him another shot if I were interested in one. Professional Arms MK5 is still vaporware. No real status on availability has been seen. |
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Any that ACTUALLY exist came from Todd, AKA Toad Bailey.. special weapons stay far away from this scummer, and manufactures that use his parts. I've been contemplating the purchase of a Coharie CA89 or CA89K, but after reading your post I'm a bit concerned. What gives???? A lot of people passionately hate him (Todd Bailey). So they give people bogus/biased technical advice based on this emotional baggage. The fact of the matter is that the Coharie line of guns are pretty good. There are the occasional mistakes but they've been fixing any problems and returning them pretty quickly. Price is about $1,500. I have two of the CA89 guns and one CA89K. They all work well and I've never had to get anything done to any of them. There seems to have been a little bit of quality problems recently (last two months) but I think this was due to them getting bombarded with tons of orders and trying to pump too many out too fast. Some rusty parts showed up so I think they were emptying out parts bins trying to complete some of them. It was small stuff though like hammer springs. Ghilliebear, over at HKPro, makes pretty nice guns too. He's into custom work and really likes to experiment. His prices are reasonable for his services and you can special order stuff. Price on an MP5 pistol from a demilled MP5 kit is about $2,600. I think he uses LSC flats. Atlantic Firearms is/was offering a MP5 pistol built up from a demilled MP5. It is built by Investment Grade Firearms. Price is about $2,700. The builder is a guy named Jayson at IGF. He normally builds very good quality guns, but the first one from AF was cock-eyed at the rear of the receiver. It had a couple of other problems so the guy sent it back. I haven't heard follow-up reports. Jayson claimed that it was due to the use of a Special Weapons/Coharie receiver flat and that they are defective. This was quickly squelched by Ghilliebear, who built one up that looked and functioned great with the SW receiver flat. Not sure what current status on this is. Jayson might have just gotten a defective flat though because he seems to be a pretty stand-up guy and I'd give him another shot if I were interested in one. Professional Arms MK5 is still vaporware. No real status on availability has been seen. + 1 on what retrodog said I have a SW 5 that was made By Todd and it's been 100% I did have one of his other guns that I never got to run and they made it right by me no complaints here |
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Ghilliebear, over at HKPro, makes pretty nice guns too. He's into custom work and really likes to experiment. His prices are reasonable for his services and you can special order stuff. Price on an MP5 pistol from a demilled MP5 kit is about $2,600. I think he uses LSC flats. Atlantic Firearms is/was offering a MP5 pistol built up from a demilled MP5. It is built by Investment Grade Firearms. Price is about $2,700. The builder is a guy named Jayson at IGF. He normally builds very good quality guns, but the first one from AF was cock-eyed at the rear of the receiver. It had a couple of other problems so the guy sent it back. I haven't heard follow-up reports. Jayson claimed that it was due to the use of a Special Weapons/Coharie receiver flat and that they are defective. This was quickly squelched by Ghilliebear, who built one up that looked and functioned great with the SW receiver flat. Not sure what current status on this is. Jayson might have just gotten a defective flat though because he seems to be a pretty stand-up guy and I'd give him another shot if I were interested in one. Yup Retro I agree you covered it well. I spent last weekend at Knob Creek and looked at several clones and spoke with lots of HK guys about the clone industry. I stripped down a gun built by IGF, however at $2600.00 it was not one that I'd own. Maybe just a fluke thing but I was not impressed. Later I handled one built by ghilliebear on an LSC flat and it was very nice indeed. I missed the chance to handle the ones built by Michael Otte on SW receivers, I'm sure they're nice and at $2995.00 they should be. I can tell you that the LSC receiver gun had the tightest mag well (better than my German gun) and the carrier to receiver fit was just a wee bit tighter than the Coharie guns I've torn into. |
| Have to say ive been impressed with Coharie's latest builds. Ive seen some of his earlier disasters and it took me along time to bite the bullet and buy one of his guns, but im glad I did. I just picked up one of his CA94 std models, which was stripped of the paddle mag release and ambi lower BUT it does indeed have a fluted chamber, one of the things he had planned on leaving out. He got enough grunts about it , he decided to include the fluting. The gun is very well built, reciever is straight, everything is nice and tight, even the mag well is tight. First thing i checked was head spaceing and it was dead on .018 .... The carrier had no griding on it and zero welds sticking into the inside of the reciever. Seems to have mostly US made parts though, includeing bolt, carrier, stock, HG, barrel, reciever, and plastic navy lower. The trigger set looks to be HK. The welds are nicer than most real HK's ive seen but the finish leaves alot to be desired. Already have a buddy lined up to strip the finish and I intend to duracoat the thing in the next month or so. Finish is just uneven, thick in some spots, thin in others, grainy in some. Thats my only complaint. Todd claims it has an F style bolt even though its US made, it does have the Action 3 roller retainer in it, the carrier is one piece, probably cast which will be replaced shortly. The extractor reaches all the way into the rim of the case, felt solid. Overall I cant complain. I havnt had a chance to take her out, original purchaser put 20 rounds though it and not a hicup, I ran one mag through it by hand and it ejected every round in a nice little pile. Hoping I got a keeper, I hate sending guns in for work. I would say go with a Coharie, even if you have to do a few treaks, its cheaper than a real one, and just as much fun. Hell I learned alot about the guns I shoot just by them breaking or needing work. Now I do most of my smithing myself. Have a retractable stock on the way already from RTG. |
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Have to say ive been impressed with Coharie's latest builds. Ive seen some of his earlier disasters and it took me along time to bite the bullet and buy one of his guns, but im glad I did. I just picked up one of his CA94 std models, which was stripped of the paddle mag release and ambi lower BUT it does indeed have a fluted chamber, one of the things he had planned on leaving out. He got enough grunts about it , he decided to include the fluting. The gun is very well built, reciever is straight, everything is nice and tight, even the mag well is tight. First thing i checked was head spaceing and it was dead on .018 .... The carrier had no griding on it and zero welds sticking into the inside of the reciever. Seems to have mostly US made parts though, includeing bolt, carrier, stock, HG, barrel, reciever, and plastic navy lower. The trigger set looks to be HK. The welds are nicer than most real HK's ive seen but the finish leaves alot to be desired. Already have a buddy lined up to strip the finish and I intend to duracoat the thing in the next month or so. Finish is just uneven, thick in some spots, thin in others, grainy in some. Thats my only complaint. Todd claims it has an F style bolt even though its US made, it does have the Action 3 roller retainer in it, the carrier is one piece, probably cast which will be replaced shortly. The extractor reaches all the way into the rim of the case, felt solid. Overall I cant complain. I havnt had a chance to take her out, original purchaser put 20 rounds though it and not a hicup, I ran one mag through it by hand and it ejected every round in a nice little pile. Hoping I got a keeper, I hate sending guns in for work. I would say go with a Coharie, even if you have to do a few treaks, its cheaper than a real one, and just as much fun. Hell I learned alot about the guns I shoot just by them breaking or needing work. Now I do most of my smithing myself. Have a retractable stock on the way already from RTG. If you're gonna get it refinished anyway, I'd get someone to add a paddle mag release. 
And be careful about your parts count with the new stock and bolt assy. |
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Any that ACTUALLY exist came from Todd, AKA Toad Bailey.. special weapons stay far away from this scummer, and manufactures that use his parts. I have a SW5 with F/A sear and i have run over 4,000 rnds threw it now with not a single jam, i do 100 rnd mag dumps, i have run every brand of ammo out there, i have put every brand in a bag and shook it up and loaded it into beta mag TRYING to get it to jam and its not possible. To say the SW5 gun is not worth getting is bunk. I have had my SW5 outperform 2 HK MP5's so far. Todd is a bitch to deal with, and the gun is not original, i changed the bolt, carrier and spring to get it to run this good but the gun itself is great. |
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And be careful about your parts count with the new stock and bolt assy. The CA94 STD is nearly made from all US parts, think there are two HK parts in the whole gun, maybe three all in the trigger pack. Emailed Todd to make sure but its not an issue I think im going to run into. Parts count shoulnt be an issue. |
| There are just a few companies, the best is special weapons for the majority of US parts although they're getting limited. Your best bet is to buy a special weapons receiver and either a complete HK parts kit or one by one. I believe special weapons has the best receiver. Other parts are depend on opinion but they all work properly if assembled correctly. You can buy a receiver for about 300.00 and an HK parts kit can go from 1300 to 2000. Or you can buy US parts and build a gun for about 1500 to 1600. I build extremely high quality guns and if you like more info email me at turnfab82@yahoo. I can also help with acquiring the parts. |
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Tag for interest. What is the background to these DOJ HK-94's I keep hearing about? Califormia DoJ/DoC (I heard it as DoC) bought a bunch of HK94s for use by their officers. These were true HK94s, with the long barrels and trigger frame shelf, and not MP5s with the semi-auto trigger pack and push-pin receiver. When they got rid of them a few years ago, they sold them back to various LE/HK distributors who turned around and sold them to the civilan market since they were real HK94s. At the time they were a great deal, as they were selling for up to 50% less than pre-import ban HK94s. This was largely due to the fact that they were "cosmetically challenged". For example, the ones that I bought all had a lot of finish wear on the left side due to being carried at chest level on a sling. Some had inventory numbers engraved in the top of the receiver. However, the internals were in very good condition, as they were shot very little. The one oddity with them was that they had the MP5K rear sight instead of the MP5/HK94 rear sight. Otherwise, they are true-blue HK94s. I had one of mine SBR'ed to use as a sear host, and the other was refinished by ARS and looks new. These days there really aren't any bargains to be had with the DoJ/DoC HK94s. Most are being sold at full market price, particularly if they have been refinsihed. |
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Tag for interest. What is the background to these DOJ HK-94's I keep hearing about? Califormia DoJ/DoC (I heard it as DoC) bought a bunch of HK94s for use by their officers. These were true HK94s, with the long barrels and trigger frame shelf, and not MP5s with the semi-auto trigger pack and push-pin receiver. When they got rid of them a few years ago, they sold them back to various LE/HK distributors who turned around and sold them to the civilan market since they were real HK94s. At the time they were a great deal, as they were selling for up to 50% less than pre-import ban HK94s. This was largely due to the fact that they were "cosmetically challenged". For example, the ones that I bought all had a lot of finish wear on the left side due to being carried at chest level on a sling. Some had inventory numbers engraved in the top of the receiver. However, the internals were in very good condition, as they were shot very little. The one oddity with them was that they had the MP5K rear sight instead of the MP5/HK94 rear sight. Otherwise, they are true-blue HK94s. I had one of mine SBR'ed to use as a sear host, and the other was refinished by ARS and looks new. These days there really aren't any bargains to be had with the DoJ/DoC HK94s. Most are being sold at full market price, particularly if they have been refinsihed. Agreed. The only special pricing that I've seen have been for the ones with original worn finish and excessive engraving. And even those aren't marked down very much. |
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