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Posted: 4/14/2006 6:32:21 PM EDT
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I've been pondering buying an MP5 clone ever since getting to play with a real MP5SD. I was wondering who makes the best clone out there for the money? Vector Arms Vulcan Armament Bobcat Weapons or an older Speshal Weapons Any problems specific to each company that I should worry about? |
Vector is not a clone, it's a cheap imitation!! Vector is not doing 9mm's yet, but I heard they will soon!! Bobocat is OK, but I heard they will no longer make MP5 Clones Old SW's..... I take the 5th Y |
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MP5 clone... do a CA DOJ/DOC HK-94 first choice, about 2400 - 2600 right now next would be a recent Bobcat (send to IGF for tuning and should run 100%), probably about 1800 tuned. just say no to vulcan, it is a blowback design, not roller locked ala HK. It just looks (from a distance) like an HK. |
Is that sarcasm or are you serious? I'm new to this, I'm not up to date on who's who or what's what with these clones.
I have no clue what you're talking about with the DOJ/DOC HK 94's, but the price is beyond my means anyway, so that rules that out! What usually needs tuning on the Bobcat guns? Feed broblems? Ejection problems? What about Vector's clones? |
That was VERY THICK sarcasm. I agree on the customer service but bobcat haws made some hk clones that work well. |
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I have run about 200-300 rounds through my BW-5 FSA. With the included (SW made) 30 round curved mag, I get about 1 FTE per every two mags. With straight mags, more FTE's. I don't know if it's an ammo issue, a mag issue or an issue with the gun. It may just need to be broken in more. Once I SBR the gun, more options open up. I have heard of people have FTE issues with a BW replacing the entire bolt with FA German parts and having the issue go away. Who was it that tunes them? And how much does it cost? |
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A Bobcat is the way to go in your price range if you want a shooter and do not want a 9mm AR. The parts on Bobcats are mostly (95%+) made by Special Weapons, some do have metal HK lowers. As far as interchangeability goes, you can put most HK parts in a Bobcat including a registered sear if you have the funds. Unfortunately it seems like Bobcats are hit or miss as far as function goes. Mine did require some tweaking (HK ejector and extractor spring) to get it to run right. That is a little ridiculous for a $1500 gun but your only other real option is to drop $2500 for a HK94 and about $1100 more to SBR it with a paddle mag and 3 lug. If you do have issues with a Bobcat they do have a lifetime warranty If you want an investment get a HK94 if you want a shooter get a Bobcat. |
MPfiveengineer, Where did you order (or get) your real HK parts from? All I seem to find is the same company (using different names) that supplies Bobcat (SW, BlackMarket, etc). |
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Tagged 'cuz I want a decent clone too. Edited to add: After reading the rumor on the net that Vector Arms will soon be producing quality 9mm MP5 clones in addition to the .40 that they currently offer, I decided to call Vector Arms in Utah. I just hung up with them, and they confirmed a 9mm MP5 clone will be available later this summer. The very polite lady that answered the phone said to call back in mid-May if I would like to be put on a waiting list. I think I am going to start saving my pennies now for a Vector clone later this summer. |
+1 I got most my stuff from HKPro.com |
What does the clipped & pinned mean? |
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Wow, very nice explanation. There should be "dictionaries" for each gun at the top of each Armory page that describes stuff like this. Very informative and the pics are great, thanks! Now, is there any value to the Navy lowers over the metal lowers? I prefer the metal ones as shown in the above pics. Are they more/less valuable than the polymer? |
I thought so also. I started a new post called Clipped and Pinned, maybe the moderator will make it sticky.
Personally I do not like the feel of the navy lower, I think the idea behind them was to have an ambidextrous housing where the SEF housing is tailored for right-handed shooters. That said, factory HK navy housings do bring a premium price. BTW the semi lower in the top picture is metal but the rest of the lowers are plastic. |
Well, then if I'm "lucky" enough to get a Navy lower, I'd happily trade it for a metal lower. Why would they bring a premium???
Kinda figured that out! 
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Actually you might get a HK94 Conversion for $16K, a Pin gun (a real HK MP5 are few an far between!! Only MP5's Imported before 1968 are REAL Fully transferable MP5's!! Y |
| My BW5 has been flawless since I put in the new extractor spring and it PWNZ at 3 gun matches. I could care less if it is an HK or not and neither can the people that see me shoot it at the matches. They see the thing dropping plates that ARs are missing and it is all good. |
I've heard this said a lot "send to IGF for tuning" so I sent Jayson an email asking for a price quote for this procedure. He emailed me back saying that there was nothing you could to the clones to make them more reliable. Any further info on this would be appreciated. |
BS  , he use to do them. I guess he has enough work to do on real HK's that he's tired of messing with clones.If you are having reliability problems with your gun first I would contact Bobcat. If that is unsatisfactory or not an option then you can stick as many HK parts in your Bobcat as your pocketbook will allow, I would start with the extractor, extractor spring, and ejector lever. |
Care to show us this e-mail ? I know it is BS because he has told me and well as many on this board and others that it CAN be done. He is the master at making clones go from 95% to 100% Maybe you just asked the wrong question to the wrong Jayson He built my clone with a SW cast receiver and a German kit and it runs 100% ( 99.9% if I use that WinClean flat nosed garbage  )I'd still be curious to see exactly what he said in his reply because that does not sound like Jayson at all FWIW...... |
That is precisely what I was thinking too as this was not my first time talking/dealing with him. I'll look and see if I still have it, but I probably deleted it |
And just how do you "know" this? Are you insinuating I'm lying or making this up? I deleted his response, but here is a copy of the email I sent him Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:03:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "D H" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert Subject: work on a BW5 To: [email protected] Jayson, Hi there, ahve done business with you in the past. Have two questions for you. Do you have any used Glock 19's in stock, if so prices, etc. Next, I have a BW5 that I would like for you to go through and work it over for reliable feeding, what do you charge for something like that Thanks, Darren |
I think he answered you appropriately regarding the nature of your question. You see, you cannot really go through and "work over" a gun to make it have more reliable feeding. He probably told you something similar to what he told me regarding the same question.... "there is only so much you can do to a magwell, plus even the German guns have issues at times". Something to that effect is what I got, especially since I was using a cast receiver... less forgiving than a stamped receiver. The only other thing he could do is check your extractor, extractor spring and pack ejector / spring. Those are things most of us simple folks can do. Also, you have to understand that even German MP5's and HK94's have trouble with certain ammo feeding and ejection... sometimes with no real reason other than being made of metal and made by man. Murphy's law I suppose. So are you having trouble with your BW5 right now ? Or were you just wanting to take preventative measures ? If you had come to him with a problem you are currently having, he probably would have approached your question differently. I think it is safe to say he still works clones well  |
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bones21, no prob. I am having some probs, it seems that when my BW5 gets dirty, even after 2-300 rounds it starts FTE and double feeding. It currently has the gold/copper colored extractor spring, but I'm going to go ahead and put a new extractor and ejector rod in it to see if that cures it. |
Your problem may be solved with springs galore  Recoil spring, ejector spring, extractor spring.... No doubt to at least change out the ejector and extractor springs. If those don't cure the problems, replace the ejector and extractor with factory German parts. You may also want to give her a good lube job and cleanup excess. And last, but not least... check the magwell and see exactly how much play you are dealing with. If it is a lot then maybe a tack weld bead could solve some of those feeding issues.... although, not much room at all to work with in there. One more thing, have you properly broken in the Bobcat ? They claim you have to use X number of rounds to get the parts broken in and the excess paint worn off parts, etc. Your warranty should cover these issues, but they only happen when it gets a little dirty so they may tell you to clean it.... Who knows. What is your round count ? |
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