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Posted: 11/27/2011 6:50:44 PM EDT
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Just function tested my FAL build.
Tried to get a basic sight in done at the same time, but I do not understand the FAL irons enough. The front sight I understand enough. screw it down to move bullet impact up. The rear sight is baffling me. Rifle is a kit build, Coonan receiver, Kit from Sarco, Virgin Barrel from Sarco cut down to 18". Anybody have a good method to explain the rear sight? With the front sight post screwed all the way down and rear sight at the rear most position, the rifle is shooting about 1/2-3/4" low at 25 yards, and off to the right a bit. |
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Quoted:
Just function tested my FAL build. Tried to get a basic sight in done at the same time, but I do not understand the FAL irons enough. The front sight I understand enough. screw it down to move bullet impact up. The rear sight is baffling me. Rifle is a kit build, Coonan receiver, Kit from Sarco, Virgin Barrel from Sarco cut down to 18". Anybody have a good method to explain the rear sight? With the front sight post screwed all the way down and rear sight at the rear most position, the rifle is shooting about 1/2-3/4" low at 25 yards, and off to the right a bit. 25 yards is kinda close? I think most folks start at 50 yards. I sighted in at 50 and 100 yards. Moving the rear sight forward is supposed to set for increased range at set distances. Unfortunitly thats for a 21" barrel I believe not one cut to 18". You guys are seriously making me think twice about cutting mine down to 18". What does the crown look like and what ammo are you using? Anyway Hebrew will be along shortly to fix you up. 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Just function tested my FAL build. Tried to get a basic sight in done at the same time, but I do not understand the FAL irons enough. The front sight I understand enough. screw it down to move bullet impact up. The rear sight is baffling me. Rifle is a kit build, Coonan receiver, Kit from Sarco, Virgin Barrel from Sarco cut down to 18". Anybody have a good method to explain the rear sight? With the front sight post screwed all the way down and rear sight at the rear most position, the rifle is shooting about 1/2-3/4" low at 25 yards, and off to the right a bit. 25 yards is kinda close? I think most folks start at 50 yards. I sighted in at 50 and 100 yards. Moving the rear sight forward is supposed to set for increased range at set distances. Unfortunitly thats for a 21" barrel I believe not one cut to 18". You guys are seriously making me think twice about cutting mine down to 18". What does the crown look like and what ammo are you using? Anyway Hebrew will be along shortly to fix you up.
Crown was looking pretty normal. I was shooting at 25 yards to just get the rifle on paper. I will most likely sight in at 50. Ammo was Remington 150 grn and some surplus. The rifle grouped very well. When I get home from work, I will take a picture of the target. |
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Is this one of the Sarco Argentine kits? Open or closed ears on the front sight? If open ears you'll need the taller rear sight to begin with. If closed it should have a short rear sight. Different height front sight posts are available for both the Metric (closed ear) and Israeli (to be used with the early metric open ear front, not to be confused with the Commonwealth style open ear front).
Pretty common to shoot low when the barrel is chopped to 18" or less but it is fixable. |
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Quoted:
Is this one of the Sarco Argentine kits? Open or closed ears on the front sight? If open ears you'll need the taller rear sight to begin with. If closed it should have a short rear sight. Different height front sight posts are available for both the Metric (closed ear) and Israeli (to be used with the early metric open ear front, not to be confused with the Commonwealth style open ear front). Pretty common to shoot low when the barrel is chopped to 18" or less but it is fixable. Yeah, it was a Sarco Argentine kit. The Barrel was a unissued argentine as well. Open eared front sight. Where do I find a taller rear sight? |
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If you have the correct rear sight now finding something taller might be tough. You should be able to find a shorter front sight. I can file or grind down the front sight easily enough, but do not want to as it's already buried. I'd like to avoid having to do that. Replacing the rear sight is easy enough, I just need to know where to find a taller rear sight. Any recommendations on where to get an israeli rear sight? |
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You may have screwed yourself by cutting that barrel down. Some of the Argentine barrels had bores that were off center. No big deal if left to full length. But if cut down, it can make regulating the sights impossible. Can you post a pic of your sights? http://gunthings.com/ You can get an Israeli rear sight aperture from Gunthings.com But if you already have the tall Argentine aperture, you will be wasting your money buying the izzy. Does your rear sight aperture look like this?  |
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Quoted:
You may have screwed yourself by cutting that barrel down. Some of the Argentine barrels had bores that were off center. No big deal if left to full length. But if cut down, it can make regulating the sights impossible. Can you post a pic of your sights? http://gunthings.com/ You can get an Israeli rear sight aperture from Gunthings.com But if you already have the tall Argentine aperture, you will be wasting your money buying the izzy. Does your rear sight aperture look like this?http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/maddogkiller1/S6300476.jpg Nope, it's pretty short. 
ETA: From the base of the sight rail to top of rear sight is .585" |
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Quoted: That is the problem. You will need either an Argentine or Israeli rear sight aperture. Gunthings.com is a good source. There may be others, but they are a good vendor and I am sure that you will be pleased with their products and service.Quoted: You may have screwed yourself by cutting that barrel down. Some of the Argentine barrels had bores that were off center. No big deal if left to full length. But if cut down, it can make regulating the sights impossible. Can you post a pic of your sights? http://gunthings.com/ You can get an Israeli rear sight aperture from Gunthings.com But if you already have the tall Argentine aperture, you will be wasting your money buying the izzy. Does your rear sight aperture look like this?http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/maddogkiller1/S6300476.jpg Nope, it's pretty short. http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1977.jpg http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1976.jpg http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1975.jpg ETA: From the base of the sight rail to top of rear sight is .585" |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
That is the problem. You will need either an Argentine or Israeli rear sight aperture. Gunthings.com is a good source. There may be others, but they are a good vendor and I am sure that you will be pleased with their products and service.
Quoted:
You may have screwed yourself by cutting that barrel down. Some of the Argentine barrels had bores that were off center. No big deal if left to full length. But if cut down, it can make regulating the sights impossible. Can you post a pic of your sights? http://gunthings.com/ You can get an Israeli rear sight aperture from Gunthings.com But if you already have the tall Argentine aperture, you will be wasting your money buying the izzy. Does your rear sight aperture look like this?http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/maddogkiller1/S6300476.jpg Nope, it's pretty short. http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1977.jpg http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1976.jpg http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1975.jpg ETA: From the base of the sight rail to top of rear sight is .585" Ok, sweet. Next stupid question is this: Gunthings lists "Rear sight aperture for 600 meter base, original Israeli, correct height for Israeli and open ear Argentine front sight bases. New" Is that the animal I need to order? My sight base has a 6 as the largest #, I assume this is a 600 meter base? I wanna order the right part the first time. |
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Quoted: Either one will work just fine. The only difference is that the 700 meter ap has a small detent cut out in the bottom to allow it to move a little further on the base than the 600 ap. But since the 600 meter aperture is cheaper, get that one.Quoted: Quoted: That is the problem. You will need either an Argentine or Israeli rear sight aperture. Gunthings.com is a good source. There may be others, but they are a good vendor and I am sure that you will be pleased with their products and service.Quoted: You may have screwed yourself by cutting that barrel down. Some of the Argentine barrels had bores that were off center. No big deal if left to full length. But if cut down, it can make regulating the sights impossible. Can you post a pic of your sights? http://gunthings.com/ You can get an Israeli rear sight aperture from Gunthings.com But if you already have the tall Argentine aperture, you will be wasting your money buying the izzy. Does your rear sight aperture look like this?http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t290/maddogkiller1/S6300476.jpg Nope, it's pretty short. http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1977.jpg http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1976.jpg http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m233/fireputrouter/FAL/IMG_1975.jpg ETA: From the base of the sight rail to top of rear sight is .585" Ok, sweet. Next stupid question is this: Gunthings lists "Rear sight aperture for 600 meter base, original Israeli, correct height for Israeli and open ear Argentine front sight bases. New" Is that the animal I need to order? My sight base has a 6 as the largest #, I assume this is a 600 meter base? I wanna order the right part the first time. |
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if you get an L1A1 folding one, which will work, you can put a big scope on your rail and fold it down if it extends past the rear site.
I have an extra one for sale if anyone needs one. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_7_163/937667_L1A1_Fal_rear_site.html 
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Ok back in the day when I was a young trooper and issued the L1A1 the first thing required when zeroing the rifle was setting the rear sight to 300 which was the battle setting!
Zeroing was conducted prone supported (off a sandbag none of this ghey bench rubbish) at 100m Operation of the sight is easy loosen off the opposite side screw the amount you need to adjust then tighten the screw on the side you want to adjust easy as that 
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Quoted: Ok back in the day when I was a young trooper and issued the L1A1 the first thing required when zeroing the rifle was setting the rear sight to 300 which was the battle setting! Zeroing was conducted prone supported (off a sandbag none of this ghey bench rubbish) at 100m Wouldn't that make the strike of the round fall well under the point of aim at 300 m?  |
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If memory serves (we got rid of our L1's in 86) Zero at 100m MPI should be 3-4" high of point of aim .
EDIT , just found this table. 100 meters Iron set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 125mm Above SUIT set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 150mm Above, 25mm Right IWS set at: 200m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 113mm Above, 25mm Right 25 meters Iron set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 13mm Above SUIT set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 25mm Right IWS set at: 200m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. - Hope this clarifies things remember this is for setting a rifles zero for war one sight setting ! |
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Quoted: You left that tid bit out of your first post.If memory serves (we got rid of our L1's in 86) Zero at 100m MPI should be 3-4" high of point of aim . EDIT , just found this table. 100 meters Iron set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 125mm Above SUIT set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 150mm Above, 25mm Right IWS set at: 200m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 113mm Above, 25mm Right 25 meters Iron set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 13mm Above SUIT set at: 300m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. 25mm Right IWS set at: 200m .............. Correct Zero Position in Relation to Point Of Aim (POA) in Millimeters: .............. - Hope this clarifies things remember this is for setting a rifles zero for war one sight setting ! |
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Quoted: I know I forget sometimes not every one knows POA isn't the same as POI  It is on a properly zeroed rifle. That is the whole point of setting zero. In your first post, you left out the portion about setting the POI to someplace other than the POA @ 100m. In your first post, it reads as if setting the rear to 300m and shooting at a target set at 100 m , presumably adjusting the strike of the round to coincide with the POA, would result in a rifle with the sights properly regulated. |
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I know I forget sometimes not every one knows POA isn't the same as POI It is on a properly zeroed rifle. That is the whole point of setting zero. In your first post, you left out the portion about setting the POI to someplace other than the POA @ 100m. In your first post, it reads as if setting the rear to 300m and shooting at a target set at 100 m , presumably adjusting the strike of the round to coincide with the POA, would result in a rifle with the sights properly regulated. Actually no it isn't ! M4 200 m zero 100 m 2" high 300 m zero 100 m 6" high L85A2 300 m zero 100m 90mm high This happens so the round hits the round impacts the target at the point of aim at the chosen zero distance 300/200 m . 300m zero = POA at 25m but due to the short distance is not as reliable as zeroing at 100m and applying the two inch correction to the POA . Edit the easiest way to explain it is while the line of sight is level the bore line is upwards to overcome the force of gravity that starts acting on the round as it leaves the barrel the round then travels on a ballistic trajectory all be it much flatter than say Artillery shells but the same principle. Want to prove it for yourself next time you get hold of a laser aim with that then inspect bullet impact at variouse distances they will start to rise then fall . KAC and Mid Atlantic training both have nice diagrams that show this and of obviously whichever US field manual that covers marksmanship. |
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