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Posted: 9/23/2002 4:06:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 4:15:55 AM EDT
Try it...you`ll like it!...
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 4:26:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 4:42:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2002 4:43:43 AM EDT by DavidC]
They are a very different gun than the AR-10 (and why would you only want one gun in any caliber?).

As you pointed out, the magazines are significantly less expensive. The FAL is a proven MBR, the AR-10 is a great target rifle.

The quality of the starter FAL's from Century has improved significantly. I'd say that you have a 95% chance of getting a gun that runs right when you buy one of their $400 specials.

If buying CIA concerns you, there are currently a couple of rifles listed on the FAL Files in the $500-$750 range that are known to function reliably. And you can get a custom gun built for ~ $1000.

If you want to get started on the DIY bug, you can get a refinished G1 kit from DSA for $139, a NGL Imbel Receiver for $189, a set of US compliance parts for $90 and you can build the FAL yourself.

If you want tack-driving accuracy, well you're likely to not get it from an FAL. If you want a proven design, reliable, fun to shoot, inexpensive to maintain, that will keep blasting away long after the AR-10 has stopped function due to being dirty, buy a FAL.

Personally, my AR-10T only sees match quality ammo. I'm not afraid to feed any decent surplus 7.62 x 51 through any of my FALs.

Link Posted: 9/23/2002 4:50:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 4:59:19 AM EDT
This is just my personaly opinion but having now gone through a FAL or two I will do either a DSA or have one built on an Imbel receiver by my local gunsmith or Arizone Response Systems from here on out. DSA's are pricey but that is mostly because they are American made and FALs aren't the cheapest guns to built when you look at the machining operation required to cut the receiver from billet rather than from a casting that is already 60% compplete.
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 5:13:58 AM EDT
Wave...I agree with david c ....I have a ar10 also....and a m1a and garand etc etc.....I ran into one of the century l1a1`s very reasonable....so I tried it.....it`s just a great gun for the money.....shoots great and I really can`t find a fault with it....I went through quite a few pages of the fal files before I bought it....looked like a decent track record........fnfal.com
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 5:18:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 7:36:12 AM EDT
Sadly, Derek at Azexarms post the other day at Falfiles.com that he was closing up shop.

He would be open for something like the next 45 days. Check out his wedsite. Maybe he will be having a "clearance" sale. I don't know if he will, but it don't hurt to look and see.
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 7:49:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 8:19:00 AM EDT
Dave, do you know how well the CAI's shoot? I'm still sitting on the fence deciding between the CETME and FAL, but the CAI FAL is about all I can afford, although that Enterprise Arms $800 gun is tempting.

Do you think you'll make it to the shoot next sunday? Wave and I will be there and would love to see your stuff.
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 7:40:44 PM EDT
The other good thing about a DSA rifle is that the receiver is US built. Many of those kit guns only have barely enough US parts to make them legal - counting the US made magazine. Using cheap surplus magazines in such a rifle would be illegal (if you care about such things).

You ought to check out the FAL Files for some more opinions on the bottom feeder guns.
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 8:15:42 PM EDT
I was planning on coming up to NY next Sunday but my wife decided she had to leave both kids with me that day, which makes it pretty much impossible. Any time you and Wave want to come down to PA to shoot any of my toys, just let me know

The latest reports on the CIA guns have been pretty positive. Decent accuracy and reliable functioning. Not too shabby for a $400 .308. My CETME is one of the first generation parts guns on the cast SS receiver built with uinissued CETME parts. It is much nicer than the $299 guns now available, but the cheap ones do function. I would only buy the current CETME if I could sort through a big pile of them and pick the best of the lot.

Regarding US parts count; it's true that the DSA receiver is a big plus there, but there are lots of other parts you can use that qulaify in the parts count. The only low-priced FAL right now that requires using US followers and floorplates in the magazines is the IAI M-444 Imbel. Most folks just addd a couple of US parts and don't worry about it, or buy a bunch of $1 floor plates, for all their mags, and a new US gas piston.

Currently available US parts that affect the parts count (5 required, 6 with a muzzle brake):

Stock
Pistol Grip
Handguard
Hammer
Trigger
Sear
Gas Piston
Charging Handle
Carrier
Muzzle Brake


Tapco sells a G1 kit with US compliance parts included for $169 IIRC.
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 8:25:56 PM EDT
Balzac, if you want to come up to the Capital area for the day I'll let you play with my ARs, AKs, Cetme, FAL, SKS, M44... You buy the ammo, you can shoot it out of my toys,
Link Posted: 9/23/2002 8:30:25 PM EDT
If you guys want to head down here, I'll even provide ammo

I really need to recycle my stocks and have a whole lot of loaded magazines I should shoot.

So many guns, so little time

Link Posted: 9/23/2002 9:48:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2002 6:02:24 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 6:46:52 AM EDT
I have an amazing article on the IAI-444, it shot MOA consistantly and they loved it. I'll give a copy to you on sunday. Its going for around $800 or less, right? In that range, it's almost more worthwhile to buy a good ol American M1A! Now those $389 FAL's have my interest, but I can't find any reviews on them.
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 6:52:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2002 6:55:12 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 6:56:51 AM EDT
I bought a Century FAL built on an Imbel receiver from Wholesale Guns and ammo last year for $450. The gun shot great, I re-Parked all the steel parts & finished the lower in KG guncoat, Changed the handguards to the Enterprise arms ones, Added a tapco muzzle break, It now Looks as good as it shoots & for around $500, Hard to beat.
It is just a good reliable gun, No tackdriver like an AR10.

Link Posted: 9/24/2002 7:02:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 8:43:35 AM EDT
I think they're mail order now. Someone said they closed except for the internet and wholesale business. Here's their website:
www.gunsnammo.com

I'm interested in atleast SEEING one of these damn things before buying them. Atleast I can give it a good once over for obvious flaws. I'm starting to think that the IAI gun is the way to go, but its a big jump from $400.
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 8:48:51 AM EDT
HiramRanger + DaveC, I just noticed your offer and I'm going to try and take you up on it. I have a couple weddings and other obligations, but I think I'm definately going to try and get down there for a day.

Maybe Ray wants to drive his little girlie car?
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 9:40:18 AM EDT
Why should you?!?!?!!!!

Because you CAN! Reason enough for me.


My L1A1 will be here tomorrow! I have every Wednesday afternoon from 3:30-5:00 sceduled as my "Personal time".....(sounds corny having to schedule PT, but with a newborn at home, I'll take what I can get) to do what I want...shooting, fishing, tying flies...or cleaning my guns. Even if I am at home, my wife pretends I'm not there...and I do the same for her on Friday after I get home from work.

And 400 rounds of British .308 surplus just waiting to be let loose....I can't wait for my range time. The range is less than 3 miles from my house. I'll usually pack a beer and a couple of cigars and spend a wonderful time on my own.
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 10:49:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
Off topic but where did Wholesale Guns & Ammo go? Was literally a 5 minute drive for me.


CALVERTON, N.Y 11933, The owner said the new store would be open as of 09/16/02, He said the new place is located right off the LIE Exit 71 or 72 (I forget) near the Aquarium.
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 12:05:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/24/2002 4:03:42 PM EDT
No problem Balzac, my club has a 50 yard pistol range with marked shooting stations as well as a 100,200 and 300 yard range. Most Saturdays in the Spring, Summer and Fall they shoot trap as well.

Buy the Century L1A1, the quality has gotten better. Be prepared to order a replacement gas piston from DSA as that seems to be the weak point with Century rifles, they manufacture their own and they tend to bulge locking up the entire gas system. Great rifles, like AKs, hard to screw up. The current crop of CETMEs looks like $hit, the earlier ones are night and day from the current crop.
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 5:50:43 AM EDT
Hiram,
I've been around looking at the CETME's and they didn't impress me. I figured that unless a good one crosses my path, I'm going to look for an FAL right now, it just makes more sense.

MickeyMouse is also working with me on assembling an FAL from quality parts on a quality receiver, lets hope it works out!
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 6:33:12 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 7:02:38 AM EDT
There isn't much reason to do a post-ban para FAL. The entire recoil mechanism is kind of cheesy and somewhat prone to breakage, and spare para-specific parts are hard to find.

You'll pay ~$600 for a Para kit, plus another $150-$200 for the para-specific barrel, plus the cost of the receiver and US compliance parts, so figure you'll be into it for ~ $1000 just for the parts. Factor in the building and refinishing and you've spent as much for a non-folding folder as you would have paid for a pre-ban SAR-48 or Armscorp gun.

Link Posted: 9/26/2002 7:06:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2002 7:07:11 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 7:52:45 AM EDT
Wave -

That SAR-48 in the EE is listed for about $300-$400 more than it's worth. "Congo" is a name that's appied to the 18" barreled FALs, there really isn't an official maodel with that designation. Mint to NIB SAR-48's sell for $1400-$1500

So what exactly is the mindset now? Build a kit (or have MM do it for you? There's nothing wrong with building a para, you'll just be paying through the nose for the parts.

If you do want to go the para route, and pin the stock open, read this thread at the FAL Files www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=45216

$545 for the kit, $100 for the barrel (if they have them, otherwise $179 from another source). And I would rally worry about finding spare parts for the para; I've seen too many posts on the Fal Files looking for para-specific parts to replace one that broke to be real comfortable with them.

It's a shame I can't make it up to LI on Sunday; I'd bring a bunch of different FALs with, and a couple of parts kits, to give you some idea of what you would be looking at. If you get the urge, I'm about 90 minutes from NYC if you want to come over to PA and shoot a couple different FALs and see what the various parts kits look like unassembled (I've got a handpick G1 and a Grade 1 Imbel kit, at the moment).
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 8:29:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 8:30:04 AM EDT
Garr, I thought Wholesale was staying at old address? They will be out by Calverton now?
Link Posted: 9/26/2002 8:47:29 AM EDT

I'm doing ALOT of research at the FALFiles. There are so many options available, just when I think I see something I like...I discover another one that grabs my attention.


That would explain why I have three different FALs and parts kits for two other types waiting for me to find the time to build them.

Go the ARS route; you won't be disappointed and you'll get exactly what you want.
Link Posted: 9/28/2002 7:45:48 PM EDT
*cough*, just get yourself a dsa stg-58, it's 800 bucks plus 15 to ship, plus your ffl fee. You can't beat their quality, receiver, etc. It's not much more then that dan's ammo one. You send out the kit, receiver and whatever else you want to gunplumber, his fee plus all the other stuff it's gonna be well over 800 dollars..
Link Posted: 9/28/2002 8:04:14 PM EDT
DSA has a G1 parts kit for that has a repark option for and NEW WILSON barrel all for About $240. Combine that and an Imbel Reciever $250 in Shotgun news, and you have one sweet 16" NEW FAL, I did this route and could not have been pleased more, the DSA kit is a tremendous value, after they re-parkerized it looks better than new. All in all, make your friends jealous for about $500.

Dont forget to order a muzzle break, and some American parts to make it legal.

I realy enjoy shooting this weapon, It makes a nice big BOOM!, get 1000 rounds of SA ammo for some real fun!
Link Posted: 9/28/2002 8:11:37 PM EDT
BTW

IMbel has the best reciever for hardness and fit and finish, DSA has a better one for twice as much, IMHO you could make 2 IMbel G1's for the price of one DSA rifle.

G1 is a german version of the fal and has a cool bipod and metal handguards.

Stay away from the L1A1's, they are of the 'inch' variety and the metric mags wont fit in them, in a metric gun you can use either inch/metric mags. Also all the cheap parts are for the metric guns. IMbel is metric, and Enterprise arms is too.
Link Posted: 9/28/2002 11:22:41 PM EDT

Stay away from the L1A1's, they are of the 'inch' variety and the metric mags wont fit in them, in a metric gun you can use either inch/metric mags


You've got that backwards. Inch guns can use inch or metric mags, metric guns can use only metric mags.

Link Posted: 10/5/2002 12:16:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2002 12:17:37 AM EDT by mattja]
I don't think the fact DSA receivers are US built is an important selling point. A $7 US-made pistol grip also counts as one US part, as does a US-made cocking handle or buttstock.

I think what helps sell DSA receivers is they offer type 1 and type 2 variants, which look cooler than the blocky type 3 Imbel. Although the imbel is stronger.

Anyway, if you go the ARS route, expect to pay more than for a DSA, especially if you desire the Metacol finish. You pay more for an ARS, but you get a better looking rifle in the end.
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