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Posted: 3/27/2006 6:49:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 2:08:38 PM EDT by GroundFire201]

New Question added

If price isnt a factor which is a better FAL the Austrian STG56 or SA58?
Which has a better receiver?
I know the STG has a steel lower and the SA has an aluminum lower and the STG has a used barrel. I'm going to get a steel lower in either case so that doesn't matter.


type 1 oe 2 receiver?

long or short piston gas system? And why?

what optics... Aimpoint, ACOG, ELCAN, IOR?

what rail mount?

does any one make a replacement chrome lined barrel?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:58:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 10:01:07 AM EDT by AustinPSD]
For semi-automatic FAL's, there is no functional difference between a Type I or Type II receiver - the difference is cosmetic only.

Type II receivers make a difference on full auto versions of the rifle, the machining on this receiver type is intended to reduce cracking at the rear of the receiver seen under extreme use in military service applications.

I relate long vs. short gas system to the intended use and barrel length. Para's most often use 18" or 16" barrels, full length gas system on the former, mid-length/short on the latter.

As to optics, it relates to how you intend to use the rifle. In my case, I use a Trijicon TR22R scope. It offers a middle-ground between a red dot optic for fast target acquisition, and magnification of a telescopic sight that maps well into the range/accuracy of my 18" Para. I have the TR22R on an A.R.M.S. mid-rise adapter and 30mm STANAG rings:



The rail came as part of this rifle (DSA FAL Para Congo Custom), it is the DSA Extreme Duty rail mount, combined with the full length extended rail. This provides a steady mount for the optic, and lots of rail "real estate" for other stuff if I need it. The DSA mount allows take-down without removing the optic.

I know that DSA offers chrome lined 21" barrels, and you can probably special order 18" or 16" chrome-lined barrels from Badger. There may also be other manufacturers that offer chrome-lined barrels, I am just not aware of them...
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:57:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 12:09:24 PM EDT by BB]

Originally Posted By GroundFire201:
type 1 oe 2 receiver?

Type 1; carry handles on paras are superfluous. The Type 1 is the only type from DSA that you can get without the carry handle cut; so it leaves a cleaner look IMO. Other than that it makes no difference.

long or short piston gas system? And why?

Long; the rifle was designed that way. More mass to move plus the gas port being farther from the chamber makes for softer recoil. Sight radius is longer as well making the long (standard) gas system more accurate.

what optics... Aimpoint, ACOG, ELCAN, IOR?

I'm thinking some 1-4x illuminated scope like the S&B police model but cheaper; maybe the IOR. Mine has no scope currently.

what rail mount?

Scope mount/dust cover replacement? ARMS, DSA or GP (if you can find one)

does any one make a replacement chrome lined barrel?

Nope. You need to find a surplus imbel para barrel. The only chrome-lined barrels DSA offer are Izzy and G1 21" surplus.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 10:35:47 AM EDT
Good questions as I'm getting ready to order a DSA FAL right now and those were 2 of my questions but I have 2 more 1.) 18" or 16" barrel 2.) which flash hider?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 11:43:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mstennes:
Good questions as I'm getting ready to order a DSA FAL right now and those were 2 of my questions but I have 2 more 1.) 18" or 16" barrel 2.) which flash hider?



Better yet, why 16" or 18"? I got the SA58 with the para stock and the 21" barrel. My thought is why get 7.62 and handicap it by whacking off 5" of the barrel? You give up velocity and range. IMHO, YMMV, etc.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 4:59:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By callgood:

Originally Posted By mstennes:
Good questions as I'm getting ready to order a DSA FAL right now and those were 2 of my questions but I have 2 more 1.) 18" or 16" barrel 2.) which flash hider?



Better yet, why 16" or 18"? I got the SA58 with the para stock and the 21" barrel. My thought is why get 7.62 and handicap it by whacking off 5" of the barrel? You give up velocity and range. IMHO, YMMV, etc.



16 inches makes it much easier to handle in CQB situations and you dont really loose too much velocity which doesnt make much of a difference. The longest you should go with a para is 18 max IMHO.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:50:58 PM EDT
so your saying I should 16" it, with a short gas system? Which flashhider? And how much do you loose between 18" and 16" I'm going to order one of the configurations tomorrow either a Congo Para 18" with rails interface or a 16" Tactical with a rail interface? Whats a good FAL website?
Thanks,
Mike
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:30:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 7:31:11 PM EDT by 1811GNR]

Originally Posted By mstennes:
Whats a good FAL website?
Thanks,
Mike



FAL Files
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:39:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 6:05:41 AM EDT by BB]

Originally Posted By mstennes:
so your saying I should 16" it, with a short gas system? Which flashhider? And how much do you loose between 18" and 16" I'm going to order one of the configurations tomorrow either a Congo Para 18" with rails interface or a 16" Tactical with a rail interface? Whats a good FAL website?
Thanks,
Mike



I prefer the 18" barrel; more velocity is always good, and it's only 2". You loose roughly 100FPS going from 21" to 18"; you loose roughly twice that going to 16", so I think 18" is the best compromise between velocity and handling. The 16" rifle also has more muzzle blast. I have the belgian flash hider on mine; it works well.
The short gas system causes more wear/tear on your rifle as well as makes recoil sharper, and reduces sight radius. The only place for the short gas system IMO is in a 13" SBR.

Gratuitous photo op:
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:54:19 AM EDT
I was thinking lastnight I really like the looks of AustinPSD's FAL looks very balanced.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:34:34 PM EDT
Just remember the FS is going to add another 2 inches to your barrel. So, an 18 inch barrel is really a 20 inch barrel. Also, losing 200fps, if its even that much, wont make much of a difference. I prefer shorter because I neen to be more mobile and an 18 inch (really 20 inch with FS) barrel is too long. Just try to move around the halls of your house and see for yourself. Or, try moving around in thick brush and you'll come to the conclusion that 16 inches is better. Even the 18.5 inches on my shotgun barrel is too long and thats with a pistol grip.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:51:08 PM EDT
The Para functionality/stylistically seems to be better suited to 16" or 18" barrels - the Para conceptually implies "mobility" and compactness.

I went with the 18" (20" witih the flash hider) for a number of reasons:

- I have handguns and shotguns for very close quarters/home defense purposes, and don't foresee using the FAL as a CQB weapon
- I have carbine length AR's for CQB/moderate distance use
- My goal for the FAL is longer distance use against targets that merit the heavier bullet weight the .308/7.62 cartridge supports,
this implies a longer barrel length

With the stock folded, the rifle is easy enough to maneauver in/out of a vehicle, as well as shoulder on the sling. The stock is quick and easy to unfold into position for use.

My opinion is that barrel length is largely a function of the personal choices for "cosmetics" and aesthetics of the weapon, less so for accuracy/velocity, especially within the approximate 2" - 3" incremental difference between the three barrel lengths.

Talon Arms has a beautiful Para Congo FAL in stock now with a 16" fluted barrel and A2-style flash hider - all it needs is the DSA Extreme extended scope mount... it's also bargained priced. I wish I was in the market for another FAL...

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 1:46:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AustinPSD:
The Para functionality/stylistically seems to be better suited to 16" or 18" barrels - the Para conceptually implies "mobility" and compactness.

I went with the 18" (20" witih the flash hider) for a number of reasons:

- I have handguns and shotguns for very close quarters/home defense purposes, and don't foresee using the FAL as a CQB weapon
- I have carbine length AR's for CQB/moderate distance use
- My goal for the FAL is longer distance use against targets that merit the heavier bullet weight the .308/7.62 cartridge supports,
this implies a longer barrel length

With the stock folded, the rifle is easy enough to maneauver in/out of a vehicle, as well as shoulder on the sling. The stock is quick and easy to unfold into position for use.

My opinion is that barrel length is largely a function of the personal choices for "cosmetics" and aesthetics of the weapon, less so for accuracy/velocity, especially within the approximate 2" - 3" incremental difference between the three barrel lengths.





So your going to carry your shotgun, hand guns, AR and FAL all at the same time? If not, chances are you will encounter a mix of environments from CQB to long range shooting.
Im just going to carry my Sig 40 and Para DSA FAL with 16 inch bbl. Dont need more then that myself and dont want to carry more then 2 guns.

Just my .02

PS I would buy the DSA at Tallon Arms but I'm going to get my lower made with steel not aluminum and get a long gas system. Its already in the works.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:26:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 2:42:32 PM EDT by BB]

Originally Posted By GroundFire201:
Just remember the FS is going to add another 2 inches to your barrel. So, an 18 inch barrel is really a 20 inch barrel. Also, losing 200fps, if its even that much, wont make much of a difference.



Not much of a difference? At 700M it will make a world of difference.
I have both 16 and 18 inch FALs, and to be perfectly honest, I see no difference in the handling characteristics of either; both would be suitable for MOUT. This coming from a guy that used to clear shipping with an M14 or 18" 12 guage. Yes there are better weapons for CQB, but they ain't in 762NATO.


Originally Posted By GroundFire201:
If price isnt a factor which is a better FAL the Austrian STG58 or SA58?
Which has a better receiver?


My personal opinion is the StG58, as it was made to fulfill a military contract and as such subject to military quality oversight. There is no oversight, other than customer feedback, in the manufacture of the SA58 parts.
They both have the same upper receiver, BTW.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 5:22:04 AM EDT
I ordered the Para Congo 18" Standard action with extreme extended scope mount and front rails, if I do another it will be the Para Tactical 16" short action
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:03:37 AM EDT


So your going to carry your shotgun, hand guns, AR and FAL all at the same time? If not, chances are you will encounter a mix of environments from CQB to long range shooting.
Im just going to carry my Sig 40 and Para DSA FAL with 16 inch bbl. Dont need more then that myself and dont want to carry more then 2 guns.

Just my .02

PS I would buy the DSA at Tallon Arms but I'm going to get my lower made with steel not aluminum and get a long gas system. Its already in the works.



For mobile use, I consider two cases:

- on foot, carrying my BoB I use a Tactical Tailor two-piece MAV rig with the X-harness addition, and a Three Day Assault Pack Plus. The ammo I carry is in magazines, stored in modular MOLLE pockets, and my Glock is carried in a modular holster also attached to the chest rig. As far as rifles, I carry my Colt LE6920, along with the Para Congo. I don't plan on carrying the shotgun - two rifles and a handgun are not excessive, and I'm fit enough to manage the weight of the rig and weapons over moderate terrain and distance

- my vehicle is a custom F-350, equipped with secure storage that allows me to carry rifles, shotguns, and ammo along with other supplies, so weight is a non-issue

With regard to defending a stationary position (my home/BOL) I have intended uses for the weapons I have at my disposal. My planned use for the shotguns is "last ditch" close quarters defense, same for the handguns. The AR's are good for distances out to 200 yards (this reflects the average one-shot accuracy for my family members). The FAL is intended for longer range targets, and is equipped with a longer range optic (Trijicon TR22R), as well as for use against vehicles that may attempt encroachment of my perimeter.

In general, I have two of each weapon type, identically equipped:

- Colt LE6920 w/TA31 ACOG
- Bushmaster Modular Carbine w/EOTECH 552
- Benelli M4 w/EOTECH 552
- Several Glock G19's, G23's, and a few others including a G32 and G38 (I just like the compact frame Glocks...)

I will be adding another FAL, equipped identically to the DSA Para Congo w/TR22R this summer. I've also been investigating the addition of a .50BMG to the family, there are a number of single-shot and semi-automatic rifles now on the market that are attractively priced.

I think the FAL makes an attractive "distance" rifle, in particular the Para Congo with the 18" barrel is a good middle-ground with regard to mobility/ease of transport if that becomes necessary. DSA makes a very, very nice rifle. Of all the weapons I have in the collection, my Para Congo is the one I enjoy shooting the most.


Originally Posted By GroundFire201:

Originally Posted By AustinPSD:
The Para functionality/stylistically seems to be better suited to 16" or 18" barrels - the Para conceptually implies "mobility" and compactness.

I went with the 18" (20" witih the flash hider) for a number of reasons:

- I have handguns and shotguns for very close quarters/home defense purposes, and don't foresee using the FAL as a CQB weapon
- I have carbine length AR's for CQB/moderate distance use
- My goal for the FAL is longer distance use against targets that merit the heavier bullet weight the .308/7.62 cartridge supports,
this implies a longer barrel length

With the stock folded, the rifle is easy enough to maneauver in/out of a vehicle, as well as shoulder on the sling. The stock is quick and easy to unfold into position for use.

My opinion is that barrel length is largely a function of the personal choices for "cosmetics" and aesthetics of the weapon, less so for accuracy/velocity, especially within the approximate 2" - 3" incremental difference between the three barrel lengths.





So your going to carry your shotgun, hand guns, AR and FAL all at the same time? If not, chances are you will encounter a mix of environments from CQB to long range shooting.
Im just going to carry my Sig 40 and Para DSA FAL with 16 inch bbl. Dont need more then that myself and dont want to carry more then 2 guns.

Just my .02

PS I would buy the DSA at Tallon Arms but I'm going to get my lower made with steel not aluminum and get a long gas system. Its already in the works.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:07:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BB:

Originally Posted By GroundFire201:
Just remember the FS is going to add another 2 inches to your barrel. So, an 18 inch barrel is really a 20 inch barrel. Also, losing 200fps, if its even that much, wont make much of a difference.



Not much of a difference? At 700M it will make a world of difference.
I have both 16 and 18 inch FALs, and to be perfectly honest, I see no difference in the handling characteristics of either; both would be suitable for MOUT. This coming from a guy that used to clear shipping with an M14 or 18" 12 guage. Yes there are better weapons for CQB, but they ain't in 762NATO.


Originally Posted By GroundFire201:
If price isnt a factor which is a better FAL the Austrian STG58 or SA58?
Which has a better receiver?


My personal opinion is the StG58, as it was made to fulfill a military contract and as such subject to military quality oversight. There is no oversight, other than customer feedback, in the manufacture of the SA58 parts.
They both have the same upper receiver, BTW.



Good points!
Does anyon know if the STG barrel is chrome?
Should I get a new barrel? I dont trust used military barrels
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:02:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 10:19:17 AM EDT by BB]

Originally Posted By GroundFire201:
Good points!
Does anyon know if the STG barrel is chrome?
Should I get a new barrel? I dont trust used military barrels



The Steyr StG barrels are not chrome lined, they are hammer forged and have a chrome lined chamber. They are arguably the best barrels made for the FAL; actually the StG58 itself is commonly referred to as the Cadillac of FALs, best of the bunch. The barrel that came on my DSA StG58CP was new; the whole kit was new in fact. If you want a chrome barrel you need to find a surplus Imbel para barrel. I wouldn't try cutting a chrome lined barrel down.

You should check out FALFiles, they have a real search engine there that will help answer all your questions.
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 10:37:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 2:26:40 PM EDT by M4C]
I pondered the same question of 16" or 18" for my STG58 carbine...

I settled on 18". I wanted a shortened rifle, but give up as little velocity as possible and still keep the full length gas system. Plus, to me the 18" FAL looks so much better & balanced even for a non-para full stock like mine will be.
As for barrel condition, I have full confidence that mine will be in great condition. I can't believe DSA would release one that does not measure up to their reputation. Plus, it's made by Steyr - nuff said.

Been waiting 9 weeks now for my STG to come home. I'll keep waiting however long it takes!
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 2:09:17 PM EDT
Ok than I plan on putting a Rail Interface System with a Extended Extreme Scope mount so I would be best to go with the SA58 and NOT the STG58 correct? It will have a full length gas system as well a 18 barrel. So I hope I have interpited the info in this thread correctly as I just got off the phone with DS Arms a minute ago?
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