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5/28/2005 7:15:52 PM EDT
A few weeks ago after I cleaned my newly acquired ARS built FAL, I adjusted the gas setting to all the way closed.  Today at the range I fired off a couple of shots and then went to move the gas one click and it wouldn't budge.  My buddy and I tried using a screw driver, the bullet tip and our fingers.  No luck.  What could be the problem?


5/28/2005 7:32:12 PM EDT
[#1]
It's common to get a little corrosion between the sleeve and cylinder, and it will lock up tightly. A little penetrating oil and some soak time will usually free it. A couple taps with a soft face mallet may help. And oil it lightly next time!
5/29/2005 5:42:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Handguard binding on it????



  - georgestrings
5/29/2005 6:35:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Get the gas adjustment wrench to use on it. Nothing will screw up the splines on the regulator like using the wrong tool on it. I had a shooting buddy that thought a pair of pliers was the right tool for the reg. It looked horrid after his "adjusting".
Use a bit of Kroil on it and let it sit a bit. Should be able to move the reg then.
Why did you close it all the way? After it's set, you shouldn't have to mess with it.
5/29/2005 7:19:07 PM EDT
[#4]

Handguard binding on it????


The handguard isn't binding on that I can see.  I have a DSA rail system on it and it looks like it  is clear of it.


Why did you close it all the way?


When I got it, the gas adjustment was all messed up so on my first outing I had a ton of fail to ejects and fail to feeds.  I closed it all the way down, fired a few rounds through it and then couldn't move the dang gas adjustment.  Also, I didn't realize there was a specific tool to adjust the gas.  In the FAL manual it says to use a bullet tip.  



5/29/2005 9:26:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Long or short gas tube? I have seen the pins on the long gas tube wiggle loose before which can bind up the gas regulator. If it is a short gas tube, there is no pin.
5/30/2005 4:09:54 AM EDT
[#6]
The reason why I mentioned the handguard is I've seen them tightened down so that they put a bind on the gas regulator - ESPECIALLY if it was moved to the open or closed position, then the handguards re-installed... Here's a thought: you have MUCH more surface to get ahold of with the handguards removed - and can spray the whole thing with some penetrating oil - Kroil is very good, but the best stuff I've ever used is PB Blaster... I'll 2nd 50's recommendation of taking care not to bugger up your regulator - although I've sucessfully moved some stubborn ones with penetrating oil, and a brass punch, without damaging them any... I know that some have used the bottle opener on a Swiss army knife, too....


I give everything a good coat of neversieze when re-assenbling that area - keeps things from getting carboned up to the point of becoming difficult later on...



   - georgestrings
5/30/2005 11:32:13 AM EDT
[#7]
Good suggestions everyone.  I will look at all this a little later once the rug rat goes down for his nap





5/30/2005 1:41:40 PM EDT
[#8]
The handguards also had mine locked up. Couldn't see that they were doing it though. I loosened,  slid them back, then tapped them with a hammer and wood block to seat them. Tightened them well and they haven't slipped since. Again, you could not tell they were binding the adjustment cylinder by looking at them.

rk
5/30/2005 7:08:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Took off rail system and it looked like I closed the gas a little too far.  The spring that holds it in place was stuck on a ridge between two settings.  Once I moved it one spot it turns very easily.  Thanks for the help.  Now back out to the range for proper gas adjustment.


5/30/2005 7:30:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Don't forget the gas adjustment procedure.  Start open with one round loaded in the mag, shoot one round, then one click closed until it locks back, and then two addition clicks for reliability.
5/31/2005 4:52:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Oh shit, I thought it was the other way around.  That is why I closed it all the way.  
5/31/2005 5:56:51 AM EDT
[#12]
P806 has got it right - open gas all the way, load one, shoot - then add a click of gas - repeat sequence until reliable lockback on empty is acheived, then add two more clicks(close) for reliability...



   - georgestrings
6/2/2005 4:06:06 PM EDT
[#13]
I took it out to the range and opened it all the way (7 setting).  Put one round in and it ejected and locked back just fine.  I did it again three times and it ejected and locked back everytime.  So I closed it two clicks (now on 6 setting) and everything was fine.  Is this normal for an 18" bbl with regular gas system?  I thought I read alot of people saying that their settings were around 3-4.


Thanks.
6/2/2005 6:46:52 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
I took it out to the range and opened it all the way (7 setting).  Put one round in and it ejected and locked back just fine.  I did it again three times and it ejected and locked back everytime.  So I closed it two clicks (now on 6 setting) and everything was fine.  Is this normal for an 18" bbl with regular gas system?  I thought I read alot of people saying that their settings were around 3-4.


Thanks.



When it is all the way open there should not be enough gas left to cycle the gas piston.

It makes me wonder if the gas hole in the barrel is too large.

Too much gas means more recoil and more wear to the parts.

Perhaps it was getting stuck before because it was way too much gas and was jamming the parts together. I'd run this by the gunsmiths on the FALFiles before shooting it anymore. It sounds like a dangerous situation.
6/2/2005 7:03:04 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:
I took it out to the range and opened it all the way (7 setting).  Put one round in and it ejected and locked back just fine.  I did it again three times and it ejected and locked back everytime.  So I closed it two clicks (now on 6 setting) and everything was fine.  Is this normal for an 18" bbl with regular gas system?  I thought I read alot of people saying that their settings were around 3-4.


Thanks.



Each rifle is different.  My G1 runs perfect on-3, R1 carbine with styer barrel-5, R1 with chrome Argy barrel-4, etc.
6/2/2005 7:31:31 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I took it out to the range and opened it all the way (7 setting).  Put one round in and it ejected and locked back just fine.  I did it again three times and it ejected and locked back everytime.  So I closed it two clicks (now on 6 setting) and everything was fine.  Is this normal for an 18" bbl with regular gas system?  I thought I read alot of people saying that their settings were around 3-4.


Thanks.



When it is all the way open there should not be enough gas left to cycle the gas piston.

It makes me wonder if the gas hole in the barrel is too large.

Too much gas means more recoil and more wear to the parts.

Perhaps it was getting stuck before because it was way too much gas and was jamming the parts together. I'd run this by the gunsmiths on the FALFiles before shooting it anymore. It sounds like a dangerous situation.




Sometimes what it means is that the recoil springs are due for replacement...



   - georgestrings
6/2/2005 7:55:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks guys.  I will run it by the FalFiles.


6/2/2005 8:20:44 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:
Thanks guys.  I will run it by the FalFiles.



With P806 and georgestrings responding, you already are, more or less...



And, what they said...

Forrest

6/3/2005 5:44:31 AM EDT
[#19]
So then am I ok to shoot this again?

Also, I forgot to add that this is a para kit, does that make a difference?


6/3/2005 5:46:08 AM EDT
[#20]
If it sometimes has difficulty fully chambering the 1st round off a full mag, then more than likely the culprit is weak recoil springs... The same exact thing happened to me with my carbine build, and after installing new recoil springs, it runs at "5", and strips a round off the mag smartly... My full length FAL is properly adjusted at "4", BTW - and as P806 said, it varies from rifle to rifle, and sometimes with ammo selection...



  - georgestrings
6/3/2005 5:48:53 AM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks guys.  I will run it by the FalFiles.



With P806 and georgestrings responding, you already are, more or less...



And, what they said...

Forrest





Thanks for the kind words, but compared to a few there, I'm practically a noob at FALs... The FALfiles is TRULY the place to go for all that's FAL - full of good people, and good deals, too...


  - georgestrings
6/3/2005 6:02:00 AM EDT
[#22]

Quoted:
So then am I ok to shoot this again?

Also, I forgot to add that this is a para kit, does that make a difference?






Yeah, you're alright to shoot it, and won't hurt anything by doing so - although if you couldn't get it to fail to lockback on empty at "7", I probably would've left the gas adjustment right there, unless it malfunctioned afterwards(in that case, I'd add a click until it ran properly)... I would also reserve judgement considering how hard it came to lockback at "7" - if it came back solidly at 7, I wouldn't add any more gas - if it barely made it to lockback, I'd probably add a click of gas, and try it from there... Also, how far is it throwing the empties??? IMO, ideal ejection distance is 5-10' - if it's throwing them much more than 10' at "7", I wouldn't add any gas in that case, either - or if just dribbling 'em out, I'd add some...

The FAL is a VERY robust, forgiving design, and can tolerate pretty much any abuse you could throw at it - including running it with too much gas - although long term, it *could* be a little rough on the lower and bolt carrier...


Was that built off a new para kit, or an old one??? It's not a stretch for an old kit to have worn out recoil springs - and the only difference is the para uses a different recoil spring arrangement(and bolt carrier) than a standard FAL does...



 - georgestrings
6/3/2005 6:13:53 AM EDT
[#23]
Neversieze, I think is a good idea.

My 24" DSA is still in the break in process, and I'm at +1 to +2 with an occasional FLH.
6/3/2005 6:24:49 AM EDT
[#24]

Quoted:
Neversieze, I think is a good idea.

My 24" DSA is still in the break in process, and I'm at +1 to +2 with an occasional FLH.




The ONLY thing I use Neversieze on is when assembling the gas tube nut, gas tube, gas tube retaining pin, regulator, and front sight post - otherwise I use either Breakfree CLP or FP-10 for lubrication needs...


BTW, what's an "FLH"???



 - georgestrings
6/3/2005 10:15:37 AM EDT
[#25]

If it sometimes has difficulty fully chambering the 1st round off a full mag, then more than likely the culprit is weak recoil springs


Bingo!  It has happened about 50% of the time and it doesn't necessarily happen to only fully loaded mags.  For example, yesterday I loaded a 20 rounder with 5 rounds and it didn't chamber the first round properly.  I pulled the trigger and only a click.  Upon examining the round after I extracted it there was a tiny indentation showing a light strike.  On the next round, I would help the bolt forward and it fully chamber and then every time it stripped a round by itself after recoil it would chamber fine.  So it looks like I need a new recoil spring.  Not too knowledgeable about Fal parts, do you recommend one place over another?


Was that built off a new para kit, or an old one???


I don't know, I bought it from a AR15 member.  It is stamped ARS on the bottom so I am assuming it was built right.  I do know that ARS does some outstanding work.


Thanks guys.
6/3/2005 7:35:05 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:

If it sometimes has difficulty fully chambering the 1st round off a full mag, then more than likely the culprit is weak recoil springs


Bingo!  It has happened about 50% of the time and it doesn't necessarily happen to only fully loaded mags.  For example, yesterday I loaded a 20 rounder with 5 rounds and it didn't chamber the first round properly.  I pulled the trigger and only a click.  Upon examining the round after I extracted it there was a tiny indentation showing a light strike.  On the next round, I would help the bolt forward and it fully chamber and then every time it stripped a round by itself after recoil it would chamber fine.  So it looks like I need a new recoil spring.  Not too knowledgeable about Fal parts, do you recommend one place over another?


Was that built off a new para kit, or an old one???


I don't know, I bought it from a AR15 member.  It is stamped ARS on the bottom so I am assuming it was built right.  I do know that ARS does some outstanding work.


Thanks guys.



ARS does build some quality guns.  I'd definetly replace the recoil springs, hammer and firing pin springs (also).  What type ammo are shooting?  I hope it's not Indian, they're known crappy primers.

Edited to change to hammer spring.
6/3/2005 9:50:54 PM EDT
[#27]
OH NO, I only shoot Aussie and South African surplus.
6/4/2005 3:00:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Ordinarily I'd recommend getting Tapco spring set from GPG or one of the other vendors over to the FALfiles, but I don't think Tapco includes para springs in their sets... You might try DSA, seeing how they make and sell para kits...



  - georgestrings
6/4/2005 3:12:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Light strikes typically result from the hammer spring being shortened, or a "light" spring set being installed in an effort to reduce trigger pull weight - if it happens more than "once in a blue moon", I'd replace the hammer spring - it's an easy job that can be done with a flat bladed screwdriver... I usually trim my hammer spring, and trigger return spring down a little, and polish the H,T,S engagement surfaces for a nice trigger pull - but not at the expense of reliability...



  - georgestrings
6/4/2005 9:01:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Hey, georgestrings;

FLH (Failure to Last round Hold) is my term for when the last round extracts & ejects, but doesn't quite reach the lock.

(I'm a FALnoob, so kind of making this stuff up as I go along)

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