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Posted: 11/16/2008 6:03:27 AM EDT
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for hunting with my Sage M1A EBR I was going to order some Federal .308 with the 180-gr. Barnes MRX bullets. This appears to be a great new round to me. Regardless of the merits of that opinion, the online retailers from whom I normally order ammo do not have it, but I see that Midway USA has it. Is that a decent place to order from?
Thanks in advance for any advice. |
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I wouldn't shoot that through an M1A unless the gas system is shut off, bullet weight is on the heavy side but ok , it is what powder and how hot it is loaded I'd be worried about.
I'd recommend buying the barnes bullet and reloading your own version at safe pressure level for M1a's gas system. |
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Thanks for the replies.
I may also hunt black bear with it––thus the 180-grain load. I don't reload (I wish I had time) and don't want to change loads around for different game. I also may hunt mule deer out west with it. Also, is there any consensus as to whether one can fire standard factory loads through the M1A? I have heard both sides, and both seem a mile apart in opinions. Does it make a difference that I have the Sage EBR set-up (see below) with an aftermarket buffer, buffer spring, and spring guide (I assume not)? Note that the Federal Premium stuff, with a few obvious exceptions, I think, is not loaded to higher pressures. It just is allegedly loaded more consistently, with better powders, and with premium bullets. Any further advice is appreciated. 
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IMO dont go higher than 168GR bullets!
the extra 12 grains wont make a difference in kill factor, but could add extra stress on your rifle. ETA- 165 Grain Sierra Game king- 42.0Gr varget- ( hand loads ) i shot a 10 point buck at 150 yards- the exit wound was the size of a golf ball. one shot kill. that should be more than enough to suit your needs. |
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Can anyone educate me as to why increased weight of a bullet would increase the stress on the weapon? I'm honestly, respectfully asking because there is a lot I don't know, and I am not sure if the following assumptions of mine are correct:
I assumed that: * For most rifle loads, the ammo mfr figures out what powders for a given bullet will work best and not exceed a specified safe pressure limit; * The specified safe pressure limit is low enough below the max pressure for most rifles that, even accounting for some significant error, the round will not blow up or damages the rifle; * The mfr's rounds for a given caliber will generally produce the same max pressures regardless of bullet weight –– the powder will push a 180 grain bullet (20% heavier than 150 gr) out of the barrell roughly 20% slower than the 150 gr bullet and do so with roughly with the same pressure. Am I wrong? |
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ok, most load testing at factories is done with.......
BOLT ACTION RIFLES WITH 24"-26" BARRELS with no consideration to your semi-autos oprod. why are you so hell bent on using a 180gr bullet? bear in woods "ouch, i think i just got shot with a 168gr bullet" other bear- "itll buff out, thankfully it wasnt a 180Gr, or youd be dead!" |
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Quoted:
ok, most load testing at factories is done with....... BOLT ACTION RIFLES WITH 24"-26" BARRELS with no consideration to your semi-autos oprod. why are you so hell bent on using a 180gr bullet? bear in woods "ouch, i think i just got shot with a 168gr bullet" other bear- "itll buff out, thankfully it wasnt a 180Gr, or youd be dead!" I'm not hell-bent on anything. I'm just asking a question, that boils down to: Aren't the max pressures roughly the same for either a 180 gr or a 150 gr load? In other words, don't they both make roughly the same boom, but the bigger bullet comes out a little slower? I assume if the answer is "yes," (and it may not be, but if it is), it would be true for either a bolt action or a gas operated rifle. Just asking. I'm not hell-bent on any bullet weight, but I'd also want to make my decision based on accurate data. If the pressures are substantially similar, I could choose either bullet weight. If not, I should probably choose the lighter bullet, and not even consider the heavier bullet. I just like to figure things out, and don't have a solid answer in my mind yet. I'm a curious person. My assumptions above may be wrong, I just don't know, and was hoping someone could explain to me how different bullet weights affect chamber pressures. I could see how the exact same charge in cartridges with heavier bullets and light bullets might produce somewhat higher pressures with the heavier bullet––because the powder is pushing against a heavier object. But, even if true, I also assume that the mfrs don't just throw the exact same powders in different bullets in a way that results in significantly-different maximum chambers pressures. I may be wrong. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
ok, most load testing at factories is done with....... BOLT ACTION RIFLES WITH 24"-26" BARRELS with no consideration to your semi-autos oprod. why are you so hell bent on using a 180gr bullet? bear in woods "ouch, i think i just got shot with a 168gr bullet" other bear- "itll buff out, thankfully it wasnt a 180Gr, or youd be dead!" I'm not hell-bent on anything. I'm just asking a question, that boils down to: Aren't the max pressures roughly the same for either a 180 gr or a 150 gr load? In other words, don't they both make roughly the same boom, but the bigger bullet comes out a little slower? I assume if the answer is "yes," (and it may not be, but if it is), it would be true for either a bolt action or a gas operated rifle. Just asking. I'm not hell-bent on any bullet weight, but I'd also want to make my decision based on accurate data. If the pressures are substantially similar, I could choose either bullet weight. If not, I should probably choose the lighter bullet, and not even consider the heavier bullet. I just like to figure things out, and don't have a solid answer in my mind yet. I'm a curious person. My assumptions above may be wrong, I just don't know, and was hoping someone could explain to me how different bullet weights affect chamber pressures. I could see how the exact same charge in cartridges with heavier bullets and light bullets might produce somewhat higher pressures with the heavier bullet––because the powder is pushing against a heavier object. But, even if true, I also assume that the mfrs don't just throw the exact same powders in different bullets in a way that results in significantly-different maximum chambers pressures. I may be wrong. It's not the chamber pressure to think of here, because you're right, manufacturers do load with SAAMI specs in mind for chamber pressure. It's that they use slower-burning powders to get heavier bullets up to speed (and keep chamber pressure in spec), and those slower powders, plus slightly longer dwell time from the slower bullet, can dramatically increased pressure on the gas system of your rifle, which can bend op-rods, hammer at the receiver heel, etc. Not good. The military M14's gas system was designed around military loads, which have/had a specific pressure curve and gas system pressure level. Going on the heavier side from that can cause problems. |
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