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Posted: 12/3/2007 3:35:22 AM EDT
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Aside from the receiver (machined vs. cast), what differences (if any) exist between USGI M14 and current SA M1A production? Can USGI parts be swapped with existing SA production parts? Narrowing down what M14 #2 is going to be, and I need to know so I can tell Ron at SEI what to do with M14 #1 (Norinco being completely retooled to GI). Thanks.  ETA: BTW, if someone could answer the same question WRT the M1 Garand, I'd appreciate it. 
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| I have two (100,XXX and 160,XXX) that have the op rod spring guide cross pin hole and slot located too low in the receiver. This does not allow the magazine to lock all the way up against the magazine stops in the front of the receiver's mag well. This causes the mag to rattle up and down at the front of the mag and causes brass shavings when the bullet is driven low against the feed ramps. By filing and recontouring the op rod spring guide, I have fixed this problem; however, I can't just swap in a USGI op rod spring guide. |
I went to the Boyds website and didn't see them. Even searching for Springfield yields nothing but the 1903. Are the Boyds stocks made to USGI specs? |
Got it. In this particular case, I am leaning toward having the optic (which will be an AimPoint or similar) either mounted on the provided Scout mount, or else back over the rear of the receiver using one of the Sage clip-guide mounts. Therefore, the difficulty you mention might not be a headache for me. It certainly wouldn't justify my spending close to $3,000 (as opposed to $1,500) for an LRB/Fulton or Chicom refit. If I am wrong, please correct me. 
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No. For one thing there is no selector cut out. I think the main differences are that the receivers are cast and the parts that aren't USGI were not made under USGI contract and may have differing quality. As far as machining and metallurgy goes. I have a springfield and am very happy with it. It was bought 2 years ago and still had a couple USGI parts on it. If you're trying to say that the SA's are as good a quality as USGI, I believe you are mistaken. Otherwise, I'm not against SA. Like I said, I own one. |
Oh, I'm not trying to say anything. I am asking serious questions for the same reason as WilsonCQB: I want to obtain another M14 variant, but don't want to pay double for what are otherwise minor differences. This debate has gone back and forth for years. Some swear that only USGI is worth it. Other say that SA's current production is just fine. So far, none of the differences posted would adversely affect the intended use of this weapon (CQB and urban combat - but only if the SHTF). While I will concede that a forged receiver is stronger than a cast one, the fact may be that cast is quite good enough for my purposes. If that's the case, then I can save the extra $1,500 and use them for accessories, ammo,...... or another gun.  Since I have already blown or will blow about $2,500 obtaining and upgrading my Norinco through SEI, then I think I'm wise in setting that one up as the precision long-range weapon (since it can always do short-range work simply by switching to irons or a red dot). I have no issues with that earlier decision. It's the one I'm trying to make now (for admittedly scared-to-death-of-the-upcoming-election reasons) that's the kicker. |
We're in a similar boat. I want to get another M1A before the election just in case. I'm leaning towards a Scout model SAI. That is set up pretty much exactly how I want my gun. I'm willing to pay $$ to LRB or Fulton if they truly provide added value and put out a better gun (not just a more prestigious gun) but while doing my research I (like you) haven't seen justification. People talk about how the parts are better -- but how many breakages or problems do you hear about with SAI? None. I've searched multiple forums and forums dedicated to the M14 and come up with nothing so far. I'd rather save the money if I can, but I'm willing to spend extra if it's worth it. So far it doesn't seem to be. ETA: Back about a year ago I was considering buying a Fulton and was sold on one until they ran a review in... I believe it was Small Arms Review. It was not a flattering review and I decided to hold my $$. |
Although this may be seen as little more than anecdotal evidence, I will relay the following: Recently, my father, best friend, one of his old co-workers, and myself have all purchased M1A rifles made within the past 2 years. NONE of these rifles had any problems mounting scope mounts from ARMS or SEI. None of us went with a Sadlak mount, but in my experience, there is no problem with the scope mount groove in new production Springers. I have read of the accounts on the internet of SAI rifles in the past having this issue, but I have not seen this at all with any current production SAI rifles. Now, I'm only talking about a sampling of 4 rifles purchased from different venues, but it seems that if the mounting groove were really a problem with current Springers, then surely I'd have at least had a little problem putting mounts on at least one of these rifles. Personally, I think this is an issue found on a range of OLDER rifles that has since been corrected. With regards to everything else, Mil-Spec is just that, the military specification. It may be better than most other similar items produced, but not necessarily so. Most 1911 afficionados wouldn't want a pistol built to the tolerances of the old rattle trap military specification. Likewise, I don't see anyone bragging about having a "Mil-Spec" dinner last night!  After all, this is AR15.com, so if it ain't Mil-Spec, or if it ain't the flavor of the week, it must be garbage, right?
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This is probably blasphemous, but if you guys are worried about the election and what may happen after that. I would buy more mags. Wilson, you have a ridiculous amount of mags for your 92 don't you? Well, don't you need some more "HI CAP" mags for your M1A? Or heck, stock up on ammo. Search for surplus whereever you can find it. Because that's one of their tactics. Go after the ammo. I have no clue as to what's going to happen, but I don't know if buying more guns is always the answer. I'd be stocking up on back up parts, heck get another barrel or two, maybe some receivers. I don't know. Maybe that's lousy advice. But I'd rather have one rifle that works for what I want it to do, with back up parts, than 18 different rifles I can't carry with me all at once. I'd probably have a coronary trying to lug around 2 M1A's for any period of time. Actually, now that I think of it, 2 guns of the same kind is always a good idea. In case you have to send one off for work, you got the back up. So, forget everything I just said. I need another HiPower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
A lot of the parts are made by Wayne Machine, a Taiwanese company. What are you having Ron do? IMHO I would shoot the SAInc as is and collect USGI parts. The only thing that HAS to go on a new SAInc is the shitty cast extractor. Never let go of that Norinco. I have an LRB M14SA and a Norinco and I wouldn't get rid of either. The LRB is the absolute pinnacle in quality. Their hammer forged reciever and all USGI parts can't be beat. Mine is my "go-to-war" stick and I'll never get rid of it. |
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The major difference to me would be that SAI no longer uses USGI chrome-lined barrels. Hasn't since sometime in 2004. Not very many other USGI parts if any, as well. Might be important if you plan on selling it someday. I've seen good deals on the EE for M1A's with lots of USGI parts for around $1100 - $1200, low round counts as well. A steal IMHO -- wait and see what they will be going for next November. But if your going to keep it for the long haul, the new M1A's are fine -- don't drink the Kool-Aid about SAI weapons. I own a bunch of them that I bought new and have never had any problems. Remember that life-time warranty as well and being half the price of the competitor's. I bought my M1A's new from SAI 6 years ago and never looked back or regretted the purchase. Never had problem one with either. You can always buy USGI parts and add them on later if you want. A USGI part isn't some magical part that will transform your weapon into some death beam, most of the parts are of very good quality and have to meet a certain spec laid out by the government. Yet I've seen a few USGI parts that weren't all that. But for the most part they (USGI) parts are pretty nice. But I don't think I could tell the difference between USGI or SAI parts from just looking at them. Remember -- USGI parts where made, most likely by the lowest bidder or by the company with the best lobbyist, bribes or connections. Buy one, (new or used) you'll love it.
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There are some parts that USGI are definitely better, the extractor is one of them. It's probably the biggest bitch most people seem to have. The cast receiver is supposedly goo for 250K rounds as opposed to a forged USGI spec one thats good for 450K or something like that. I'll never run that many and I know it. I'd PERSONALLY look for an older one as I think a bit more time was spent putting them together correctly and many are almost all USGI parts save for the receiver. Anyways, I've been very happy with mine and I have no complaints. Yes USGI parts will fit but some might have to be checked/fitted such as new bolt headspace. One can swap til you find one that gauges OK. I buy spare parts, usually USGI, when I find them in good shape and decently priced but good USGI parts have gone up quite a lot and interest is high so you need to be quick. |
Ron will be converting my Norinco into as close-to-an-LRB as possible. It will never leave my stable, and for the same reasons you give. As for the SAI, the only changes I plan to make are the stock (debating), the extractor, an optic (TBD), trigger job (if needed), and changing the muzzle attachment (I prefer a FS to a brake, but that may change). Otherwise, and unless someone can give me some gotta-have mod that Ron or WarBird or someone else does, it will remain pretty much stock. |
Excellent. Thanks.
If we have to start running that many rounds, it means that either ammo has become dirt cheap or that we are having running gun battles against the JBT's in the streets. Neither seems probable.
Yep. Thanks.
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The M14s built by SEI on forged Chinese receivers with all USGI parts are the absolute pinnacle in quality - mine are Buy ammo and mags while you can . . . |
Forged versus cast. |
I had a Springfield Scout that gave me fits. It went back to the factory for repair 3 times and a 4th repair was handled by mail. The best factory parts on my Scout were the cast receiver and the barrel. Funny thing, every warranty repair required reproduction parts be replaced with USGI. Live and learn
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(Lets be realistic, with thought given to today's ammo prices) If I DARE to spend $150,000 on enough .308 to cause a casting failure on my Springfield, and I have the balls to go on the internet and complain about SAI, please remind me to give you all my physical address so you can come over here and b1tch slap the $h1t outta me! I'm pretty sure that after 150K invested in ammo, I shouldn't be upset at all about having to replace a $1300 rifle. |
Interesting thread. |
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