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Posted: 5/26/2003 9:05:02 AM EDT
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Ive got an ARMS 18, the new one, ARMS 22's on the way, and have about $800 bucks for my M1A project. Do you guys have favorites/stay aways? Was thinking M-3, but Im not that fancy, is there an ACOG with the 308 bdc? |
| The ARMS mount looks good. I've just put the Leupold Vari-X III M3 3.5-10x40 Mildot on my M1A, but I'm not completely satisfied with the Springfield mount. It just seems imprecise. Do I have to give up my iron sights to use the ARMS mount and rings that GI_Brat and Fox have? From some online photos, it appears that the slits in the rings are narrow. |
| Daddy-O, I cannot use the irons with the scope in place. However, I can remove the scope in about five seconds and reinstall it in the same amount of time. The #22 throw rings repeat my 300-yard zero nicely. This combination works well for me. I was willing to give up the instant use of the irons for the versatility of the combination. |
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Fox, I understand what you are saying and I see the convenience of QD. Also, since the irons aren't intended to be in use, I suspect the ARMS mount is rather low, correct? With the scope removed, do you see the irons OVER the mount? I guess if you could see them under the mount then they'd be available with the scope on. I think I have the same scope as GI_Brat and it looks like he has pretty low rings. I suspect I'd get a better spot weld with that setup versus the higher Springfield mount. Also, with the mount and rings so low, have you experienced any ejection problems with the ARMS? |
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I believe the ARMS is the lowest of all the mounts, although I have never used a Brookfield. You see the irons over the mount. Note that GIBrat uses a 19A rather than QD rings. The 19A itself is QD. This is a better solution for some. The 19A offers more mounting slots than the 18 allowing for more variation in eye relief. I can tell you that even with the high rings I get brass deflecting off of my windage turret cover. This really bothers some people while I never notice it anymore. Functionally, I have never had a problem with my setup. |
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Thanks for the info. Now I clearly see the difference between your setup and GI_Brat's. You've spared yourself the expense of the #19A and still accomplished the same thing. My guess is that the #19A mount will take the brass deflections instead of the scope, however. |
I have bounced brass off of the bottom of the 19A as well as the windage knob, but the mount usually takes most of it. Also, using the 19A, you still have limited use of the iron sights. Here is a bottom view of the 19A/21STANAG Combo. I have the same set-up on my Varminter. 
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GI_Brat, thanks for the photos. There is just one thing I can't figure out yet. You say you can get limited use of your irons with your 19A/21STANAG Combo, and Fox says he cannot use the irons with his #18 + #22 setup, but the photos provided look like the opposite would be true. Your setup looks to be pretty "dense" with no room for a look at the irons, and Fox's looks wide open, and the #22 rings also provide peep slits. I need to understand this apparent contradiction before I get an ARMS setup to replace my Springfield mount. I don't really NEED to see the irons while a scope is mounted, but I strive for as much versatility as possible. Thanks again to both of you for your continued assistance. |
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After years of intending to scope my M1A I finally pulled out a used ARMS #18 I acquired a long time ago, ordered a set of ARMS #22 medium rings and a Leupold Leupold Vari-X III M1 3.5-10x40. Concerning the 3rd contact point forward and the set screw. I cannot see what purpose this serves as it does not adjust for height and only spins around. What am I missing? Is there something wrong with this? Also what do I have to do to remove the clip guide as I couldn't see how I could press the pin out. Give the man some help! |
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Getsome, IIRC (it has been awhile), I found the easiest way to remove the clip guide was to disassemble the rifle and using a pin punch, drive the pin down into the receiver area then remove the clip guide. I do not have my rifle handy at the moment. Regarding the third contact point, again, IIRC, mine had a threaded adjustment for that point and it was suggested in the instructions that Loctite be used on the threads once contact is made with the receiver. The third point of contact is simply for forward stability of the mount and does not attach to the rifle. |
Step #1 Turn the rifle over. Unlatch guard and remove firing mechanism from rifle. This will allow the clip guide roll pin to fall free and not become jammed in the firing mechanism during the next step. Step #2 Using a 3/32" punch drift out the roll pin holding the clip guide in place. Save the roll pin as it falls from the receiver. Step #3 Replace the firing mechanism prior to removing the clip guide. This will prevent any possible damage to the stock bedding. Using a brass drift and a small hammer, drift the clip guide straight out of it's seat in the receiver dovetail. Do not use excessive force which may damage the receiver. Step #4 With a 7/64" allen wrench, remove the socket head screw and adjustable dovetail from the clip charger guide assembly on the #18 mount Check that the adjustable dovetail does not bind in the receiver dovetail. Loosely reassemble the socket head screw and adjustable dovetail on the mount for final fit on the rifle receiver. Step #5 Prior to attaching the mount to the receiver, prepare the 3/8" Locking Bolt. Preparation includes the following: clean the threads, apply a sealing compound primer such as Grade "T" (NSN 8030-00-963-0930), followed by Loctite Grade "B" (NSN 8030-00-081-2335) Place the mount onto the receiver by aligning and sliding the mount's adjustable dovetail into the receiver's dovetail slot. Ensure the dovetail is firmly seated in the slot. Next, ensure the dovetail on the backside of the mount is seated in the slot in the side of the receiver. While pressing the mount up against the side of the receiver, screw the Locking Bolt into the threaded hole in the receiver so that the mount is held firmly against the side of the receiver. See Step #6 for torquing the Locking Bolt. Step #6 Torque the 3/8" Locking Bolt. Apply 90 to 100 inch-pounds. Do not exceed 100 inch-pounds. Torque the 3/8" Locking Bolt using a 1/4" adjustable drive torque wrench of 5 to 150 inch-pound capacity (NSN 5120-00-542-4489), and a 3/8"x¼" drive socket (NSN 5120-00-241-3186). Step #7 Using the 7/64" allen wrench, remove the socket head screw from the clip charger guide assembly on the mount (See Step #4) Using a screw driver turn the circular spacer until very light contact is made with the receiver.Do not tighten the circular spacer. Apply Loctite grade "B" (NSN 8030-00-081-23350 to the 7/64" socket head screw. Replace the 7/64" socket head screw and tighten. Step #8 Loosen the Front Socket Screw, but do not remove. Adjust the front Tension Button Bushing by inserting a jewelers screw driver or a scribe in the notch in the top of the Bushing, and turning down until the Button contacts the front ring of the receiver. Step #9 Apply Loctite grade "B" (NSN 8030-00-081-2335) to the threads of the Front Socket Screw. Using the 7/64" allen wrench, tighten the Screw. This completes the attachment of the #18 Mount Foundation to your M21, M14 or M1A. |
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Thanks to GI Brat for all the useful info. I did get the Stripper guide off after breaking off my old 3/32" punch in the hole. A trip to Sears for the "free replacement" punch and I got both the pin and the broken off punch out. Nothing is ever easy for me! In spite of it I was unable to get the forward contact point on my ARMS #18 to adjust so rather than screw with it any longer (it was given me for free), I ordered a new one. Why take a chance on the mount. Also my new Leupold vari XIII M-1 long range 3.5-10X40 arrived and I have to say that I was disappointed. The clarity was not what I envisioned. I called SWFA back up and after talking about different scopes I ordered what I should have the 1st time. A Swarovski 2.5-10X42. Way overpriced but their optics are unbeatable. I have had a pair of 8X30 Swarovski binocs for years and to this day would not want anything else. Apparently clarity doesn't come cheap. |
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Tasco SS, ARMS 18, ARMS 22(M) to clear the NM hooded rear sight--leaves approx. 1 mm of clearance. http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/15458M1A_004-med.jpg http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/15458M1A_002-med.jpg http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data/500/15458M1A_001-med.jpg |
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I've got a Tasco SS on mine, using a Gen-3 springfield mount that I found laying around in a box somewhere. It's solid and tight, and I haven't had a problem with it at all. The brass bounces a little weird and I'm a little worried that it'll stovepipe, but it hasen't happened yet.. As noted above, as I have NM sights on mine (it's a SuperMatch), there's VERRRY little clearance between the rear sight and the rear of the scope. The rings I had laying around from another project. They're not QD or anything. I figure it takes less than 30 seconds to put the scope on or take it off; that's quick enough for me.I can shoot irons or scope, either way, so I have no need to remove the mount for much of anything, except cleaning. |
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