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ACR Discontinued? Sure Looks That Way... (Page 2 of 3)
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Originally Posted By SperlingPE: So will the ACR be supported in the foreseeable future? Just parts replacement? Continue with current barrel conversion kits? Will 3rd party suppliers continue to innovate? I'm going to guess that's a negative. While I wish Dana all the best and hope he can continue to supply the aftermarket I'm afraid it'll be a tough road ahead. Without a factory rifle being produced there are only so many potential customers out there who will buy accessories. At this point, unless someone decides to make another complete ACR, the market is dead. Or at least on life support. |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: Without a factory rifle being produced there are only so many potential customers out there who will buy accessories. |
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Originally Posted By Reiko: Remington has adopted the BA-50. I would be stunned if we didn't hear Remington ACR news sooner than later. Hopefully they'll finally tackle all the low hanging fruit that Bushmaster couldn't afford... But Cerberus probably stripped them, too. Dumping the DPMS and Bushmaster names and rolling all the various products under the Remington brand would be a smart move. I believe, but maybe am wrong, that a Remington ACR would actually sell. Not in huge numbers but better than the same product sold under the Bushmaster banner. Bushmaster (and DPMS) has too much brand stigma to support an expensive product line. That's partly what killed the ACR in the first place. |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: I believe, but maybe am wrong, that a Remington ACR would actually sell. Not in huge numbers but better than the same product sold under the Bushmaster banner. Bushmaster (and DPMS) has too much brand stigma to support an expensive product line. That's partly what killed the ACR in the first place  I don't think is right to say the Bushmaster brand killed the ACR... I think Bushmaster killed the ACR as Cerberus crippled their brand. These days the Remington brand is just as weak (see: Rustington) due to the same cost cutting measures and funneling of capital away from the company at the expense of the brand's value. But maybe Remington will be able to give it the factory support it needs to grow as a platform? |
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Originally Posted By Reiko: Possibly! IMO the reason the ACR didn't succeed is because its main selling point was modularity but it ended up being a premium rifle with nearly zero factory or aftermarket support for the first decade. Hell they never even got around to releasing 300BO, the second most popular intermediate rifle cartridge and also under the Remington banner. I don't think is right to say the Bushmaster brand killed the ACR... I think Bushmaster killed the ACR as Cerberus crippled their brand. These days the Remington brand is just as weak (see: Rustington) due to the same cost cutting measures and funneling of capital away from the company at the expense of the brand's value. But maybe Remington will be able to give it the factory support it needs to grow as a platform?Don't get me wrong. The Remington brand has had its moments. With that said, I'm remembering back twelve years ago or whatever when the Bushmaster ACR was announced. Nobody was full of excitement about the prospect of paying a premium for a Shrubmaster product. Would it have sold better ten years ago as a Remington product? It still would have been too expensive but I think the brand would have fared better against FN, etc. Doing a Bushmaster civilian gun and a Remington LE gun just further frustrated consumers who didn't want the sub-standard Bushmaster product. Add to this the lack of conversion parts (thanks, Dana and Nefarious Arms) and you have a recipe for disaster. What's even more ridiculous is Bushmaster finally seems to start supporting the rifle and then Big Remington kills it off. Add in the flood of ARs of every brand. Some decent guns for not much more than what BMI wanted for a conversion kit. Looking back on all this I guess I'm surprised the ACR lasted as long as it did. Had BM dumped it a few years ago I bet nobody would have been terribly surprised. |
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If the ACR comes back I don't think it will be under Remington for a couple of reasons. First, the Remington brand has plenty of negative associations-cheapening their own products over the years along with those of Marlin, the disaster that was the R51 pistol launch, this idea that Bushmaster was somehow a premium brand before the Remington acquisition, the also-ran RP45 they made so they could have a poly striker pistol just like everyone else, etc... About the only thing they've launched with any success over the past decade are the Versa-max and V3 shotguns. Second, the decision to axe BM and DPMS and only produce fudd guns was politically driven by their corporate ownership. They're not releasing any modern semiautos until that changes. AAC is a dead man walking and will go the way of Bushmaster. |
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Originally Posted By CJofFL: Considering how much everyone drools over the Remington Defense ACR, it would be smart if they did. I agree, but that could also be said about the rifle before they axed production. Remington isn't really known for making smart decisions as of late. |
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Does Magpul still own the licensing rights for the ACR/Masada platform? They could probably just license it to someone else to make if they do. The gun was originally supposed to be around $1,500 or so MSRP, putting the street price at around $1,200, if I recall, right? Or at least that was what Magpul had planned, then Bushmaster went and made it over $2,000. If it was around $1,200 I'd think it would have moved like wildfire. If Magpul still has the rights they should license it to someone like Daniel Defense, LMT, or even Ruger because it'd be cool to see Ruger make an AR-18 platform weapon. |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: Bushmaster blamed Magpul for the high price. They had to make a bunch of changes to the drawings and design to get it ready for mass production. Ahh, thank you for clarifying. I was always under the impression (based on word of mouth) that Bushmaster got it then decided to price it way higher than it was supposed to be. |
 Bren 2 Ms vs Virtus I would say the above two guns pretty much negate the possibility of a resurgent ACR. Assuming the price point does get to an $1800 MSRP under Remington or whoever, they are competing against two military-contracted companies with good reputations producing great AR-18’s. I mean that Bren 2 carbine looks like the heir-apparent to the ACR already. MAC claims it weighs 7.1 pounds with a medium profile barrel. I agree, though, a REMDEF branded ACR would still sell. Just like there is still a market for LE6920’s today. And I would buy one 
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Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPaBKp4FHWAI would say the above two guns pretty much negate the possibility of a resurgent ACR. Assuming the price point does get to an $1800 MSRP under Remington or whoever, they are competing against two military-contracted companies with good reputations producing great AR-18’s. I mean that Bren 2 carbine looks like the heir-apparent to the ACR already. MAC claims it weighs 7.1 pounds with a medium profile barrel. I agree, though, a REMDEF branded ACR would still sell. Just like there is still a market for LE6920’s today. And I would buy one Man. The ACR ergonomics blow all of these out of the water IMO. I sure hope it gets picked back up by Remington and updated/upgraded. Sad to see it fall by the wayside when it is so superior in design. |
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Originally Posted By soonerman: Man. The ACR ergonomics blow all of these out of the water IMO. I sure hope it gets picked back up by Remington and updated/upgraded. Sad to see it fall by the wayside when it is so superior in design. I thought the ACR had the best ergonomics, too, until I got the Bren 2. I love AR-18 guns and the Bren 2, IMO, is as close as we have right now to perfecting the platform. There are a few things with it that annoy me, but for the most part it has overtaken the ACR which was my favorite AR-18 gun. |
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Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPaBKp4FHWAI would say the above two guns pretty much negate the possibility of a resurgent ACR. Assuming the price point does get to an $1800 MSRP under Remington or whoever, they are competing against two military-contracted companies with good reputations producing great AR-18’s. I mean that Bren 2 carbine looks like the heir-apparent to the ACR already. MAC claims it weighs 7.1 pounds with a medium profile barrel. I agree, though, a REMDEF branded ACR would still sell. Just like there is still a market for LE6920’s today. And I would buy one Bren 2 maybe; the MCX is just another piston AR. Meh |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: the MCX is just another piston AR. Meh I disagree. SIG did a good job of making a new rifle with AR controls (a design parameter I believe) that's compatible with legacy M16 lowers. There's really nothing in the current upper that is M16 other than the extractor. They were a little slow out of the gate but they're rolling full bore with the platform now and there's factory stuff for the MCX that was only promised for the ACR. If anything SIG probably has too much stuff now for the MCX. |
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Originally Posted By Melvin_Johnson: I disagree. SIG did a good job of making a new rifle with AR controls (a design parameter I believe) that's compatible with legacy M16 lowers. There's really nothing in the current upper that is M16 other than the extractor. Which is true for most piston AR's. Is the MCX so different because its carrier is shortened and it doesn't need a buffer tube? |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: Which is true for most piston AR's. Is the MCX so different because its carrier is shortened and it doesn't need a buffer tube? Yes. Plus the forend pops right off and barrels are easily changed. It is everything the ACR promised but with the ability to fit onto existing lowers. |
| Oof... been waiting to pick up an ACR after they offered better QC and caliber and accessory support. Didn’t realize they killed off the entire brand let alone the ACR. Just checked the prices on gunbroker and cringed. For that much... I don’t think I can ever get an ACR when I can get the Bren2. |
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The Navajo Nation, new anti-2A owners of Remington, have stated that they will not make any "assault rifles" for civilian sales, only hunting and sporting firearms. So, unless they sell the tooling and all rights to another company it does not look like the ACR will ever be made. I doubt they will sell it if they know the manufacturer will sell to the public - Navajo Nation seems to be very anti-gun. I like the ACR and it's a breath of fresh air in a fog of AR-15s. Would I choose it over an AR-15 for combat? No, because of the weight, charging handle position next to p-rail, folding stock doesn't lock when folded, and a couple of other issues. But, could I use it in a defensive or combat situation? Sure. It's very reliable, accurate, barrel lock up is good, and the caliber conversions have a small footprint: barrel, bolt, and mag follower. It's a great survival/camp rifle and we have taken deer with the .450 Bushmaster conversion. You have a defensive gun in 5.56 plus all the game that caliber can take plus the option of big game in less than 2 minutes with the .450. If it does ever come back a .22 LR conversion would be great but for now I have a single shot .22LR converter for it . I will switch out the trigger as the factory one is not great. |
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Originally Posted By BerettaGuy: The Navajo Nation, new anti-2A owners of Remington, have stated that they will not make any "assault rifles" for civilian sales, only hunting and sporting firearms. So, unless they sell the tooling and all rights to another company it does not look like the ACR will ever be made. I doubt they will sell it if they know the manufacturer will sell to the public - Navajo Nation seems to be very anti-gun. I like the ACR and it's a breath of fresh air in a fog of AR-15s. Would I choose it over an AR-15 for combat? No, because of the weight, charging handle position next to p-rail, folding stock doesn't lock when folded, and a couple of other issues. But, could I use it in a defensive or combat situation? Sure. It's very reliable, accurate, barrel lock up is good, and the caliber conversions have a small footprint: barrel, bolt, and mag follower. It's a great survival/camp rifle and we have taken deer with the .450 Bushmaster conversion. You have a defensive gun in 5.56 plus all the game that caliber can take plus the option of big game in less than 2 minutes with the .450. If it does ever come back a .22 LR conversion would be great but for now I have a single shot .22LR converter for it . I will switch out the trigger as the factory one is not great. |
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Sadly since the ACR market all dried up, and things arent looking too good, I've moved on to the MCX platform. Sig's APP pricing and actual avaiability of parts, even if intermittent pushed me over the edge. Don't get me wrong, I still love my ACR, but I believe we can call it dead for now. IMO it was the absolute best and most reliable weapon out there too and should have been pushed harder to the mil / le / overseas by remdef. They jusy didnt seem to fucking care. |
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde: Sadly since the ACR market all dried up, and things arent looking too good, I've moved on to the MCX platform. Sig's APP pricing and actual avaiability of parts, even if intermittent pushed me over the edge. Don't get me wrong, I still love my ACR, but I believe we can call it dead for now. IMO it was the absolute best and most reliable weapon out there too and should have been pushed harder to the mil / le / overseas by remdef. They jusy didnt seem to fucking care. I think Remington cared but nobody was buying. The SCAR17 has had some success simply because it is a modern 308 and that market isn't as highly saturated. The SCAR16 hasn't fared as well against the likes of the HK416 and other competitors. Had Remington made an ACR-H things might have gone differently. |
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde: Sadly since the ACR market all dried up, and things arent looking too good, I've moved on to the MCX platform. Sig's APP pricing and actual avaiability of parts, even if intermittent pushed me over the edge. Don't get me wrong, I still love my ACR, but I believe we can call it dead for now. IMO it was the absolute best and most reliable weapon out there too and should have been pushed harder to the mil / le / overseas by remdef. They jusy didnt seem to fucking care. I don't necessarily agree with this, there are aftermarket parts available or in the works for every ACR part except for upper receivers. Actually there are people working on uppers. There do seem to be 2 kinds of ACR owner at this point though- the ones who see it as dead, many of whom are selling them; and the ones who are supporting the afrermarket cottage industry for it. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: I don't necessarily agree with this, there are aftermarket parts available or in the works for every ACR part except for upper receivers. Actually there are people working on uppers. There do seem to be 2 kinds of ACR owner at this point though- the ones who see it as dead, many of whom are selling them; and the ones who are supporting the afrermarket cottage industry for it. If waiting months for custom one off solutions is aftermarket to you. |
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Originally Posted By fettesbrotde: Theres no aftermarket.... If waiting months for custom one off solutions is aftermarket to you. There are and will continue tk be aftermarket triggers and barrels for as long as they exist for the AR. The ACR has a bigger aftermarket than a lot of not-ARs |
| Let's see what Franklin Armory does with the ACR after acquiring Bushmaster. Would love to have an ACR. |
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Originally Posted By YukonBoy03: I know. Very excited by this and AAC being sold to PSA's parent Originally Posted By YukonBoy03: Originally Posted By 50cal: Let's see what Franklin Armory does with the ACR after acquiring Bushmaster. Would love to have an ACR. I know. Very excited by this and AAC being sold to PSA's parent AAC and the ACR are the only two reasons I was excited about Remmington finally taking a dirt nap. Love both these product lines and I KNOW that Franklin Armory is smart enough to do something with the ACR.. (maybe even offer a "factory" version of the ACR with binary trigger..) |
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Originally Posted By tapered-pin: AAC and the ACR are the only two reasons I was excited about Remmington finally taking a dirt nap. Love both these product lines and I KNOW that Franklin Armory is smart enough to do something with the ACR.. (maybe even offer a "factory" version of the ACR with binary trigger..) Do they own the acr line/machinery or is that yet to be decided? I thought magpul owned it and licensed it to them. Machinery would be a leg up to start the line again. |
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Originally Posted By tapered-pin: I've got an ACR and let me tell you that I like it more than any scar16 I've shot.. I'd love to have one in .308 or a pistol with a 12" barrel.. The 308 version (Massoud) is still in beta testing. KRG owns the design and has changed the name to Fox-42. There was one for sale in the EE recently, though he was asking over twice the price KRG plans to sell the rifle for |
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Originally Posted By 10mm_: I hope the ACR comes back big The ACR is one of those guns that definitely deserved a better shot than it got. I'll never forget when we sat down with some sales bigwig and they showed us the pre production gun all proud. First thing we asked was why on earth it had a M4 barrel on it. Rep's response was that their market research had shown that's what customers wanted. We tried to explain for a while about how it was worthless on a non AR to have the cuts on the barrel but he didn't get it. It was also well into the time frame where they could have gone with a 7 or 8 twist but stuck with the 9. I get it from a cost savings standpoint but so many of us had high hopes for the gun. Hopefully the new owners do well with it. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: The 308 version (Massoud) is still in beta testing. KRG owns the design and has changed the name to Fox-42. There was one for sale in the EE recently, though he was asking over twice the price KRG plans to sell the rifle for part of that rifle is even "ACR LIKE" looks like a cross between a EBR and a MK25 |
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Originally Posted By tapered-pin: what part of that rifle is even "ACR LIKE" looks like a cross between a EBR and a MK25 It's been changed a fair amount since it entered actual development when the design left Magpul with the KRG founder who designed it, mostly in the gas system; but stocks and handguards interchange, the extruded upper receiver is very similar along with the bolt carrier and lower's use of a trigger box. There's more similarities than differences between them. |
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Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPaBKp4FHWAI would say the above two guns pretty much negate the possibility of a resurgent ACR. Assuming the price point does get to an $1800 MSRP under Remington or whoever, they are competing against two military-contracted companies with good reputations producing great AR-18’s. I mean that Bren 2 carbine looks like the heir-apparent to the ACR already. MAC claims it weighs 7.1 pounds with a medium profile barrel. I agree, though, a REMDEF branded ACR would still sell. Just like there is still a market for LE6920’s today. And I would buy one I know this is old, but while the MCX and Bren 2 are arguably the best "non- ARs" on the market, both of them have serious flaws that prevent them from ever being a real M4 replacement If Remington, whoever could come in sub $2K with the below, they would do well. One of the best features the AR family has that other platforms can't seem to get down is the weight. The below guns are 6.8 and 6.5lbs and don't have a ridiculously short handguard like the Bren to get the weight down either 
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Originally Posted By CaribouLou45: I know this is old, but while the MCX and Bren 2 are arguably the best "non- ARs" on the market, both of them have serious flaws that prevent them from ever being a real M4 replacement What are the serious flaws of the MCX? SIG reportedly had some problems with the early self-regulating gas system and has made some generational changes but the Virtus seems to be working well. The MCX has some success with LE and military customers and their (hopefully) soon too release the Spear/NGSW to the commercial market. |
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Originally Posted By jough43: Any news from Franklin Armory on the ACR's future? I don’t think Franklin picked up the ACR. Based on research I did in another thread RoundHill-Remington owns all the ACR trademarks. Magpul stills “owns” the original TDP. I wasn’t able to clarify if the licensor status passed on to RoundHill-Remington or if it went back to Magpul. They filed a claim in the bankruptcy proceedings for something like $600k in missed royalties. Franklin started filing new trademarks around Bushmaster’s old marketing material. They’re basically going to resurrect the brand as it was in the mid-2000s. |
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Thanks. I saw Magpul's suit also. Looks like they want to renegotiate with whomever has the ACR manufacturing rights. Magpul was getting an 8% royalty on every ACR sold, starting when Bushmaster was still in Windham, pre-Cerberus. That's about $130/rifle. |
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I think the ACR is dead. I have one and am glad I own it, but it just sits there as a museum piece, I don't use it. First the ACR was developed in a time when piston was "superior" to DI. Since it was "supsrior" the heavy weight of the rifle was a good trade off. Now that we know DI guns are fine, piston guns had to lighten up to stay relevant. The ACR is just far too heavy imo. Piston guns like the POF 415 and the Bren 2 crush it on weight. The MCX is similar in weight but far better supported. Secondly, it was designed at a time when barrel change was a big deal/concept. I'm not sure people care about that now. Sure, swap your 5.56 barrel for a 300 blk one...and rezero your optic. Its a pain in the ass and I think it's a very niche market who cares about that. This "feature" added a good chunk of weight to the ACR. While I like the gun, it's time is behind it imo. Resurrecting the platform would require a lot of capital and some design changes to being the weight down imo. Maybe I'm the only one who cares, but it's just too damn heavy for me to want to invest in it if I owned a gum company. The stock is the best part of the gun. I've put them on my scorpions and on my Bren 2s (thank you Dan Haga!). I'd venture to guess that Magpul would make more money by making the stock fit on more guns in house than they would licensing the ACR to another manufacturer. |
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Originally Posted By esdunbar: I think the ACR is dead. I have one and am glad I own it, but it just sits there as a museum piece, I don't use it. First the ACR was developed in a time when piston was "superior" to DI. Since it was "supsrior" the heavy weight of the rifle was a good trade off. Now that we know DI guns are fine, piston guns had to lighten up to stay relevant. The ACR is just far too heavy imo. Piston guns like the POF 415 and the Bren 2 crush it on weight. The MCX is similar in weight but far better supported. Secondly, it was designed at a time when barrel change was a big deal/concept. I'm not sure people care about that now. Sure, swap your 5.56 barrel for a 300 blk one...and rezero your optic. Its a pain in the ass and I think it's a very niche market who cares about that. This "feature" added a good chunk of weight to the ACR. While I like the gun, it's time is behind it imo. Resurrecting the platform would require a lot of capital and some design changes to being the weight down imo. Maybe I'm the only one who cares, but it's just too damn heavy for me to want to invest in it if I owned a gum company. The stock is the best part of the gun. I've put them on my scorpions and on my Bren 2s (thank you Dan Haga!). I'd venture to guess that Magpul would make more money by making the stock fit on more guns in house than they would licensing the ACR to another manufacturer. A lot of your complaints would have been solved if Remdef would have shared some of their design changes with Bushmaster. The interchangeable barrels are somewhat gimmicky, but could also be accomplished with just using a barrel nut in a lighter trunnion like the Remdef guns had. Even absent the QD barrels it is a reliable rifle that shoots well. 8lbs really isn't heavy though, it is on par with many service rifles in use today, including the M27 which is fairly new. And the Remdef rifle was lighter |
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Well, the new Bushmaster folks just made a really interesting social media post. Pic of an ACR with the headline "Soon To Be Perfected..." Hopefully this means it'll be back, though it was pretty clear in the auction documents that Remington still owns the ACR name. Bushmaster Masada? Guess I'll just have to mash F5 on the Bushmaster site to see what our Crotalus Holdings overlords have in store. 
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ACR Discontinued? Sure Looks That Way... (Page 2 of 3)
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