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12/5/2012 6:54:00 AM EDT
I have done a decent amount of research, but turned up nothing to satisfy my question.
I want to build an SBR, and I have found that you have to submit a form 4 to the ATF, ok  no problem.  You wait 6 months, it gets approved blah blah. OK
Now you can build your SBR.  I have seen some people say you have to engrave the lower to show its an SBR.
My way of doing things, and tell me if this is incorrect...

I plan to purchase a stripped lower for the use of its serial number in the ATF form.  Leave the lower stripped until I get approved, then build my gun.
Is this ok?
Do I have to engrave this lower?
12/5/2012 6:41:09 AM EDT
[#1]
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.

Though I've still read some debate as to the legality of having to engrave a class 3 item that's registered to a trust. Some strongly state that it's required, and some disagree. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of class 3 items than I will come around and elaborate though.
12/5/2012 6:49:40 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.
.


Not true. The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual. See the Armory/SBR forum for more info...
12/5/2012 6:52:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.
.


Not true. The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual. See the Armory/SBR forum for more info...


If that's the case, that shows how little even some class 3 dealers know about NFA items. I've been told by multiple class 3 dealers in person that engraving only comes into play if registered to a trust.
12/5/2012 6:52:48 AM EDT
[#4]
You do have to engrave it if you build it regardless of how you register it and it is a Form 1 you are looking for if you are building and not transfering.  

Good luck and as already said, head over to the Armory/SBR forum.  
12/5/2012 6:53:30 AM EDT
[#5]
I will move this for you.
12/5/2012 7:19:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Form 4 transfer = No engraving

Form 1 Making a firearm = Engraving
12/5/2012 7:41:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.

Though I've still read some debate as to the legality of having to engrave a class 3 item that's registered to a trust. Some strongly state that it's required, and some disagree. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of class 3 items than I will come around and elaborate though.


wildly inaccurate.

Unless you buy a factory SBR, it needs to be engraved.
Ident or Orion will do it for not a lot of $$

It's probably better to set up a trust in the long run if you plan on numerous class 3 items to follow. It cuts down on fingerprints and signatures.

I advise people to get their lower engraved before they send out paperwork in case the engraved gets fucked, you can start over on a new lower
12/5/2012 7:51:20 AM EDT
[#8]
As everyone has said already and existing NFA gun that transfers via form does 4 needs engraved.  Anything made on a form 1 needs engraved be it corp, trust or individual.
12/5/2012 8:01:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
As everyone has said already and existing NFA gun that transfers via form 4 needs does not need engraved.  Anything made on a form 1 needs engraved be it corp, trust or individual.  


FIFY

12/5/2012 8:44:24 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.

Though I've still read some debate as to the legality of having to engrave a class 3 item that's registered to a trust. Some strongly state that it's required, and some disagree. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of class 3 items than I will come around and elaborate though.


As stated, totally untrue. Your advisors are horribly ignorant, especially for the profession they're in and you should educate them.

Amazing how often the dealers of NFA are this stupid. There should be an exam necessary for a license....
12/8/2012 12:23:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.
.


Not true. The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual. See the Armory/SBR forum for more info...


this is how I did my SBR as an individual
12/8/2012 12:39:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.
.


Not true. The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual. See the Armory/SBR forum for more info...


The lower doesn't have to be engraved, you can do the receiver, frame or barrel per ATF. I engraved the barrel on both of my 870 SBS
12/8/2012 1:29:52 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.
.


Not true. The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual. See the Armory/SBR forum for more info...


The lower doesn't have to be engraved, you can do the receiver, frame or barrel per ATF. I engraved the barrel on both of my 870 SBS


Sure, but the point is it must be done, trust or not.
12/9/2012 6:52:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.
.


Not true. The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual. See the Armory/SBR forum for more info...


The lower doesn't have to be engraved, you can do the receiver, frame or barrel per ATF. I engraved the barrel on both of my 870 SBS


Wait, are you saying the engraving on a 10/22 SBR could be on the barrel, and the firearm constructed such that the Ruger receiver is completely inside a shell, as long as the engraving is visible on the barrel?
12/9/2012 9:53:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The engraving only comes into play if you register your SBR to a trust. If you register your SBR as an individual, there's no need for any engraving.
.


Not true. The lower must be engraved whether you register via a trust or individual. See the Armory/SBR forum for more info...


The lower doesn't have to be engraved, you can do the receiver, frame or barrel per ATF. I engraved the barrel on both of my 870 SBS


Wait, are you saying the engraving on a 10/22 SBR could be on the barrel, and the firearm constructed such that the Ruger receiver is completely inside a shell, as long as the engraving is visible on the barrel?


That's correct.
12/10/2012 9:40:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks. I was wondering how a Rhineland Sub Zero stock in SBR config could be legal.
12/11/2012 8:27:07 AM EDT
[#17]
This is the order I did it in and got this advice from many other people.....

1. Buy Lower
2. Build lower and NFA upper using a pistol stock
3. Shoot lower, make sure everything functions right and there are no problems.
4. Engrave Lower
5. Send off Form 4 and all accompanying paperwork.
6. Shoot lower in Pistol configuration while waiting for form to come back

Fast forward ~6 months to approval

7. Either sell or keep pistol buffer tube incase you plan on building other SBR's
8. Swap out pistol buffer tube for stock and buffer tube.
9. Enjoy your SBR.
10. Have all your non-owning SBR friends envy your rifle.

I think a pistol buffer tube is a cheap thing to keep and have in case you want to shoot your soon to be SBR or check for functionality.
12/11/2012 11:15:40 AM EDT
[#18]
I am going the opposite route. Building with a rifle barrel/stock, shooting, and when the stamp comes swap barrel (10/22) or upper (AR).
12/14/2012 6:13:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Form 4 must be engraved as stated above , I called to see about just using my initials for my name and was told NO GO !  I must have my name engraved on it just as it is on the paper work , same for trusts . She said they used to let you abbreviate for trust name but this can no longer be done . It can be engraved in many places but must be in a visible spot . She told me that on the barrel is ok but it must be clearly seen so I took that as a if you cant see it because of the hand guard this could present a issue .  If you engrave the barrel and down the road decide that you want a barrel change or different caliber less than the 16" legal limit that barrel will also need engraved . again more $$$ that you could have eliminated by putting it on the lower .
I truly wonder how many class 3 form 1 and 4  lowers are out there not done properly ? Im  a newb to the class 3 stuff but if I had a question I called and found out . Its not worth the $$ and time in the pokey for doing it wrong
12/14/2012 6:21:30 AM EDT
[#20]
Form 4 is used for a transfer.  You don't have to engrave anything because whoever manufactured it in a Form 1 or 2 already engraved it.
12/14/2012 7:12:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Form 4 must be engraved as stated above , I called to see about just using my initials for my name and was told NO GO !  I must have my name engraved on it just as it is on the paper work , same for trusts . She said they used to let you abbreviate for trust name but this can no longer be done . It can be engraved in many places but must be in a visible spot . She told me that on the barrel is ok but it must be clearly seen so I took that as a if you cant see it because of the hand guard this could present a issue .  If you engrave the barrel and down the road decide that you want a barrel change or different caliber less than the 16" legal limit that barrel will also need engraved . again more $$$ that you could have eliminated by putting it on the lower .
I truly wonder how many class 3 form 1 and 4  lowers are out there not done properly ? Im  a newb to the class 3 stuff but if I had a question I called and found out . Its not worth the $$ and time in the pokey for doing it wrong


Form 4 is a TRANSFER and DOES NOT require engraving. Form 1 is an application to MAKE an NFA weapon and DOES require maker's info to be engraved.
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