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Posted: 2/15/2012 6:32:10 AM EDT
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I can order an sbr upper/and or just a barrel less than 16" and have it delivered to my house without a tax stamp
IE as long as the short barreled Upper is not attached to the lower it's not considered a rifle... |
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Some would suggest that if both the lower and upper are at your house that you are guilty of constructive intent which is BATFE speak for "making illegal shit."
Some retailers might require a Form IV before they ship, too. This is why God invented the Arfcom EE. And the gunshow, too. 
Don't ask, don't tell. |
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False..
if you have an AR lower that is registered as a rifle or was configured as a rifle from the factory or you put on the FFL form RIFLE, you can not possess short barrels. If your AR was registered as a pistol on FFL or left the factory as a PISTOL lower, than you can. |
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False.. if you have an AR lower that is registered as a rifle or was configured as a rifle from the factory or you put on the FFL form RIFLE, you can not possess short barrels. If your AR was registered as a pistol on FFL or left the factory as a PISTOL lower, than you can. I'm assuming from his post that his intent is to eventually posses an SBR, not a pistol. Details, details... |
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Some would suggest that if both the lower and upper are at your house that you are guilty of constructive intent. Some retailers might require a Form IV before they ship, too. This is why God invented the Arfcom EE. And the hgunshow, too.
Don't ask, don't tell. Some as in the "ATF" , its not hear say, its the facts. You can not possess the parts to make an SBR without the tax stamp, only exception would be to have a pistol lower or NO lower in the house. You can play the dont ask , dont tell game all you want. I wouldnt wanna be the 1 in a million case they decide to play games |
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Some would suggest that if both the lower and upper are at your house that you are guilty of constructive intent. Some retailers might require a Form IV before they ship, too. This is why God invented the Arfcom EE. And the hgunshow, too.
Don't ask, don't tell. Some as in the "ATF" , its not hear say, its the facts. You can not possess the parts to make an SBR without the tax stamp, only exception would be to have a pistol lower or NO lower in the house. You can play the dont ask , dont tell game all you want. I wouldnt wanna be the 1 in a million case they decide to play games I told him the law. It's his choice. |
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False.. if you have an AR lower that is registered as a rifle or was configured as a rifle from the factory or you put on the FFL form RIFLE, you can not possess short barrels. If your AR was registered as a pistol on FFL or left the factory as a PISTOL lower, than you can. I'm assuming from his post that his intent is to eventually posses an SBR, not a pistol. Details, details... Im guessing your missing the point. IF he has a RIFLE lower, than NO, he can not possess a short barrel without tax stamp, If he has a PISTOL lower, than he can. This is how guys can get the short barrel and play while waiting for the stamp to be approved. |
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False.. if you have an AR lower that is registered as a rifle or was configured as a rifle from the factory or you put on the FFL form RIFLE, you can not possess short barrels. If your AR was registered as a pistol on FFL or left the factory as a PISTOL lower, than you can. I'm assuming from his post that his intent is to eventually posses an SBR, not a pistol. Details, details... Im guessing your missing the point. IF he has a RIFLE lower, than NO, he can not possess a short barrel without tax stamp, If he has a PISTOL lower, than he can. This is how guys can get the short barrel and play while waiting for the stamp to be approved. Ah. I'm guessing he doesn't have a pistol, which is why he's even asking the question in the first place. |
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False.. if you have an AR lower that is registered as a rifle or was configured as a rifle from the factory or you put on the FFL form RIFLE, you can not possess short barrels. If your AR was registered as a pistol on FFL or left the factory as a PISTOL lower, than you can. I'm assuming from his post that his intent is to eventually posses an SBR, not a pistol. Details, details... Im guessing your missing the point. IF he has a RIFLE lower, than NO, he can not possess a short barrel without tax stamp, If he has a PISTOL lower, than he can. This is how guys can get the short barrel and play while waiting for the stamp to be approved. Ah. I'm guessing he doesn't have a pistol, which is why he's even asking the question in the first place. AND that is the reason I mentioned both the pistol lower and rifle lower. Im stating facts and not assuming what he has. |
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What a messed up world that you cannot posess the parts to make An SBR without a tax stamp. What about my hacksaw? That can make An sbr right? Anyway thanks fellas yeah my intent is to build And SBR and see my options before I go to set up my trust. You act as if the BATFE has to be logical.
Remember this is the same group of mouth-breathing bureaucrats that determined shoe-strings to be machine guns. 
Until we get them shut down, gotta play by the rules. |
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False.. if you have an AR lower that is registered as a rifle or was configured as a rifle from the factory or you put on the FFL form RIFLE, you can not possess short barrels. If your AR was registered as a pistol on FFL or left the factory as a PISTOL lower, than you can. I'm assuming from his post that his intent is to eventually posses an SBR, not a pistol. Details, details... Im guessing your missing the point. IF he has a RIFLE lower, than NO, he can not possess a short barrel without tax stamp, If he has a PISTOL lower, than he can. This is how guys can get the short barrel and play while waiting for the stamp to be approved. Ah. I'm guessing he doesn't have a pistol, which is why he's even asking the question in the first place. AND that is the reason I mentioned both the pistol lower and rifle lower. Im stating facts and not assuming what he has. M-kay. If he had a pistol I don't think he'd be asking the question. Sure, if he had BOTH a pistol and rifle lower then he'd be ok. The fact that we even have to discuss such silliness is a real shame. 
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False.. if you have an AR lower that is registered as a rifle or was configured as a rifle from the factory or you put on the FFL form RIFLE, you can not possess short barrels. If your AR was registered as a pistol on FFL or left the factory as a PISTOL lower, than you can. I'm assuming from his post that his intent is to eventually posses an SBR, not a pistol. Details, details... Im guessing your missing the point. IF he has a RIFLE lower, than NO, he can not possess a short barrel without tax stamp, If he has a PISTOL lower, than he can. This is how guys can get the short barrel and play while waiting for the stamp to be approved. Ah. I'm guessing he doesn't have a pistol, which is why he's even asking the question in the first place. AND that is the reason I mentioned both the pistol lower and rifle lower. Im stating facts and not assuming what he has. M-kay. If he had a pistol I don't think he'd be asking the question. Sure, if he had BOTH a pistol and rifle lower then he'd be ok. The fact that we even have to discuss such silliness is a real shame.
THAT is almost quote worthy my friend |
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Some would suggest that if both the lower and upper are at your house that you are guilty of constructive intent which is BATFE speak for "making illegal shit." Some retailers might require a Form IV before they ship, too. This is why God invented the Arfcom EE. And the gunshow, too.
Don't ask, don't tell. Constructive possession is what you mean. No such thing as intent as it applies here. |
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Some would suggest that if both the lower and upper are at your house that you are guilty of constructive intent which is BATFE speak for "making illegal shit." Some retailers might require a Form IV before they ship, too. This is why God invented the Arfcom EE. And the gunshow, too.
Don't ask, don't tell. Constructive possession is what you mean. No such thing as intent as it applies here. Yes, sorry. Possession. |
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One more question then...if I have the ffl register it as an pistol lower Am I allowed to change it to a rifle on the form 4? Or once it is a pistol Always a pistol and if you get busted with the stock on it your Screwed? your FFL should transfer it as a receiver, not as a rifle or pistol |
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One more question then...if I have the ffl register it as an pistol lower Am I allowed to change it to a rifle on the form 4? Or once it is a pistol Always a pistol and if you get busted with the stock on it your Screwed? your FFL should transfer it as a receiver, not as a rifle or pistol This was a more recent change, <2yr ago IIRC. I'm going to jump in here and buck the trend... YES. 99% of dealers/vendors/sellers will sell you a short barreled upper/short barrel just as they would a 16". To stay legal simply store the upper at a friend's house who doesn't own guns or at least any title 1 AR rifles. This can be very helpful if you come across a great deal on the upper you want and aren't sure it'll still be there 6mo+ down the line when your stamp comes back. As for companies that require a copy of your F1/F4 to send you a short upper/barrel, I've only seen a couple do that, like DPMS, but I simply wouldn't bother buying from them. No big loss there. |
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Some would suggest that if both the lower and upper are at your house that you are guilty of constructive intent which is BATFE speak for "making illegal shit." Some retailers might require a Form IV before they ship, too. This is why God invented the Arfcom EE. And the gunshow, too.
Don't ask, don't tell. The BATFE would probably consider a 16" and a hacksaw blade to be constructive intent also. |
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Some would suggest that if both the lower and upper are at your house that you are guilty of constructive intent which is BATFE speak for "making illegal shit." Some retailers might require a Form IV before they ship, too. This is why God invented the Arfcom EE. And the gunshow, too.
Don't ask, don't tell. The BATFE would probably consider a 16" and a hacksaw blade to be constructive intent also. Let's get our terminology straight guys. There is no such thing as construction intent regarding firearms, there is no violation pertaining to one's intent. Constructive Intent can establish drug charges as in "possession with intent to distribute" but there is no equivalent in firearms, so let's all stop referring to "intent." One's intent has no legal value either way under the NFA. Constructive Possession is a legal structure or shortcut used to establish an actual possession charge, it's not a charge in and of itself. This is very real and affirmed by lots of case law including SCOTUS. |
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There are THOUSANDS of people out there with SBRs who have no idea about stamps or the law, some willingly and some just who plain old don't know.
The ATF isn't hiding behind your bushes. Do you know how many people order SBR upper online and in gun shops and never get told its illegal? |
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There are THOUSANDS of people out there with SBRs who have no idea about stamps or the law, some willingly and some just who plain old don't know. The ATF isn't hiding behind your bushes. Do you know how many people order SBR upper online and in gun shops and never get told its illegal? Never thought about that but I bet you're right unfortunately. |
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