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Posted: 4/24/2016 8:32:48 AM EDT
| Is this a big deal, or is being able to unload without cycling every unfired round through the action a worthy attribute? |
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Even with a loading gate, you have to unload most centerfire leverguns by cycling every round unless there's some trick I haven't learned over the years. You can avoid chambering every round by dumping the about-to-be chambered cartridge while action is open, before the round is chambered.
The only tube-fed non-rimfire gun I own that lets me unload it without cycling the action as many times as there are rounds in the gun, is a .454 Puma. It has a .22-type magazine loading feature that's almost never encountered on a centerfire. |
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I disagree that a tube loading rifle or carbine is a better way to go, it's good at one thing only and pays for it in every other aspect.
I've also got three Rossi 92s as well as an Armi Sport 92 Takedown, in addition to a couple Winchester 94s in .30-30 and .375. I also have a pair of 9422s, which are tube loading, and based on that experience, as much as I like the 9422, it's put me off buying a tube loading lever gun. Yes, the tube loaders are arguably easier to load at a shooting range - provided you can stand or at least get the rifle in a vertical position. However they cannot be easily or safely topped off while walking, and if you lose the magazine tube in the field, you have a single shot. In comparison, a gate loading rifle or carbine is a little harder to load, but there are no loose parts to go missing or fall out in the field, and it can be easily loaded or topped off while walking, as well as when sitting at a bench, or from a standing, sitting or prone positions without shifting your position much at all, and the rifle or carbine does not have to be in a vertical position to load it as gravity isn't a factor. And of course a 20" or 24" rifle can be loaded just as easily from any given position, unlike a longer tube loading rifle, where the loading port on the tube gets faster away as the barrel and imagine tube get longer. ---- On a gate loader like the Model 92, Model 94, etc, you can also thin the spring by about 1/3 to 1/2 its width and greatly reduce the effort needed to insert a round in the loading gate, and that's my preferred approach to making a gat loading rifle or carbine easier and faster to load. ---- One of the advantages of the bolt mounted firing pin block safety used on the more recent Rossi Model 92s (in addition to the traditional quarter cock notch) is that you can apply the safety and then cycle the rounds through the action with the firing pin blocked, providing much greater protection from an AD while unloading the rifle or carbine. |
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I've got a total of 8 leverguns, 5 with loading gates (2 Rossis, 2 Ubertis, 1 Mossberg), 2 with magazines (Savage 99 and Winchester 88), and a single Henry plus 5 22lr, all with tube loading. I dislike the tube loading system for both convenience and safety considerations. Why safety? Consider the loading sequence on a loading gate levergun. The muzzle is pointed down and away from you. The rounds are pushed in one at a time into the magazine, not dropped on their primer. At no time need the weapon be pointed in an unsafe direction. It is perfectly safe to reload with a round in the chamber and the rifle safet'd either by it's half cock or it's safety. Further, there is no magazine spring tube in your hand to juggle with while loading. Now consider the tube loading levergun. The muzzle must be pointed up in the direction of your face to load it. It can't be loaded with the muzzle in a safe direction unless one figures out how to reverse gravity. You must juggle the magazine spring tube while loading. The rounds are dropped in the magazine with the primer striking the nose of the previous bullet at the end of a fall. If held straight up, heavy rounds like the 45 Colt could gain considerable momentum before striking the bullet already in the magazine. Re-loading a partially loaded levergun via the tube is foolhardy at best, deadly at worst. I absolutely refuse to buy a centerfire levergun without a loading gate, period. To me, pointing the muzzle up, towards the shooter or others vs pointing it down, away from the shooter in a safe position, is the sole reason I will never own a centerfire Henry. Henry Repeating Arms could have opted to produce a product where one could choose, i.e. with both a side loading gate as well as a removable magazine spring and follower plus a mag tube cutout if they felt the need to have a tube fed feature so that one could decide to load from either end but they didn't. It was a studied decision. I rarely am emphatic with my personal opinion on this forum, however, I think Henry's decision to make all of their centerfire leverguns without a loading gate is not only a foolish marketing choice, but also result in a more potentially dangerous weapon than need be. I'm saddened that they made the design decision they did. |
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Here's my take.
A tube loader is fine for hunting and range work. You really don't need to speed-load or "top off" for those applications. The gate loader is better if the gun is used for completion or self defense were rapidity matters. The safety of unloading either is a moot point for me because I try to learn what is "best practices" for whatever I'm shooting. |
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Quoted:
Here's my take. A tube loader is fine for hunting and range work. You really don't need to speed-load or "top off" for those applications. The gate loader is better if the gun is used for completion or self defense were rapidity matters. The safety of unloading either is a moot point for me because I try to learn what is "best practices" for whatever I'm shooting. Agreed, I grew up shooting all sorts of tube loading .22s and made it my entire childhood without shooting myself in the face. |
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I have both including a Henry 45 Colt, they are both easy to load safely. If you not capable of loading a tube fed magazine don't buy one! Loading gates can sometimes be a pain pinching your thumb and require cycling an action to unload. Honestly I can load either one go hunt and not need to reload all day. Rifle calibers hold 6+1, pistol calibers 10+1, and my rim fires are 10+ rounds. That being said I load and unload on a tailgate or porch so no zombie SHTF scenario for me.
I am a HUGE lever gun fan and can appreciate, respect, and enjoy them all. Just wish I had "just one more"! Be safe and enjoy whatever works best for you! |
| I have a Henry-style tube loading pump 22lr and it makes good sense there. But when it came time to buy a 45-70 lever action, I debated on taking a risk on the Remlin for its action and side loading, or the less risky Henry. I chose Marlin and so glad I did. Now that I think about it, I wish the 22 didn't have the tube loading. It's more trouble than it's worth. |
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Quoted: ... Now consider the tube loading levergun. The muzzle must be pointed up in the direction of your face to load it. It can't be loaded with the muzzle in a safe direction unless one figures out how to reverse gravity. You must juggle the magazine spring tube while loading. The rounds are dropped in the magazine with the primer striking the nose of the previous bullet at the end of a fall. If held straight up, heavy rounds like the 45 Colt could gain considerable momentum before striking the bullet already in the magazine. Re-loading a partially loaded levergun via the tube is foolhardy at best, deadly at worst. ...  I have a couple of tube loading .22s (a Winchester 9422 and Remington 550-1). Not once have I had to point one at myself to load it. That said, I do not like the design on a centerfire. A loading gate is more convenient and is easier to top off, and less vulnerable to damage. |
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Quoted:
I have a couple of tube loading .22s (a Winchester 9422 and Remington 550-1). Not once have I had to point one at myself to load it. That said, I do not like the design on a centerfire. A loading gate is more convenient and is easier to top off, and less vulnerable to damage. Quoted:
Quoted:
... Now consider the tube loading levergun. The muzzle must be pointed up in the direction of your face to load it. It can't be loaded with the muzzle in a safe direction unless one figures out how to reverse gravity. You must juggle the magazine spring tube while loading. The rounds are dropped in the magazine with the primer striking the nose of the previous bullet at the end of a fall. If held straight up, heavy rounds like the 45 Colt could gain considerable momentum before striking the bullet already in the magazine. Re-loading a partially loaded levergun via the tube is foolhardy at best, deadly at worst. ...
I have a couple of tube loading .22s (a Winchester 9422 and Remington 550-1). Not once have I had to point one at myself to load it. That said, I do not like the design on a centerfire. A loading gate is more convenient and is easier to top off, and less vulnerable to damage. I'd like to see Henry offer the loading gate, but then I'd like to see Rossi offer the tube feed option like they do for their 454. I wont say who it was but there was a lot of DRAMA in a post on this thread
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Quoted:
I have a couple of tube loading .22s (a Winchester 9422 and Remington 550-1). Not once have I had to point one at myself to load it. To clarify, you've never passed either one of your hands or any of your fingers over the muzzle or within the "blast cone" while loading or unloading? I consider my hands and fingers part of myself. It seems fairly difficult to top off an end loaded tube mag without at best briefly passing at least part of one's anatomy in front of the muzzle of a loaded firearm. Best, safest practice would seem to be to never mess with loading or unloading such a magazine without having the action of the rifle open (especially or at least with a round in the chamber), which is a bit problematic for topping off in the field if you instinctively cycle the action after each time you fire, or just never top off at all. |
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