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Posted: 3/2/2016 11:20:29 AM EDT
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I've run across a dealer that has a fair price on some used guns, and my wife happens to pass by there working on occasion. My understanding is someone can pick up order as long as 4473 done.(she has CCP, so no prob) If I buy three handguns, will she have to do a multiple sales form as well?
Clarifications appreciated.. |
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Quoted:
I've run across a dealer that has a fair price on some used guns, and my wife happens to pass by there working on occasion. My understanding is someone can pick up order as long as 4473 done.(she has CCP, so no prob) If I buy three handguns, will she have to do a multiple sales form as well? Clarifications appreciated.. <---FFL Having your wife pick up guns on your behalf is a classic straw sale.....a felony. If you want the guns, go buy them yourself. The dealer will complete a Multiple Sale form, not you. |
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my bad, should have noted would have been billed and paid for already to me, and boxed for shipment. She'd basically just be the mailman with one day free shipping. My agent said someone could do the paperwork and pay for gun, and when it arrived, someone else could pick it up on their behalf, as long as another 4473 and NICS was done..thought this was comparable, but couldn't find anything specific on ATF website. I'll just eat shipping and be safe..
Thx |
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Quoted:
my bad, should have noted would have been billed and paid for already to me, and boxed for shipment. She'd basically just be the mailman with one day free shipping. Quoted:
my bad, should have noted would have been billed and paid for already to me, and boxed for shipment. She'd basically just be the mailman with one day free shipping. Being billed and paid for has nothing to do with it.........YOU are the buyer/transferee, not your wife. It isn't being shipped, it's being transferred to someone who is not the actual buyer/transferee. The dealer would be a complete and total idiot for allowing this to happen as you describe. If this store is not local, the dealer would need to ship to your dealer who can transfer the firearm to you. My agent Who or what is an "agent"? 
said someone could do the paperwork and pay for gun, and when it arrived, someone else could pick it up on their behalf, as long as another 4473 and NICS was done.. Oh good grief.......that is so wrong, wrong, wrong it defies common sense. 
Whoever your agent is....should never, ever be consulted about firearms again. If it's the selling dealer he needs to stop selling guns before he goes to jail. thought this was comparable, but couldn't find anything specific on ATF website.... Read the instructions on the 4473 for Question 11a. |
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Just had my interview for my FFL, and he said if a guy bought a gun from me and passed NICS, but didn't take delivery, his wife could pick it up for him, as long as another NICS was done for her. The 11a tip cleared me up- repaired firearms may be picked up..
Thx man, sorry to stress ya 
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Quoted:
I've run across a dealer that has a fair price on some used guns, and my wife happens to pass by there working on occasion. My understanding is someone can pick up order as long as 4473 done.(she has CCP, so no prob) If I buy three handguns, will she have to do a multiple sales form as well? Clarifications appreciated.. Straw purchase and all parties have committed a felony. my bad, should have noted would have been billed and paid for already to me, and boxed for shipment. She'd basically just be the mailman with one day free shipping. My agent said someone could do the paperwork and pay for gun, and when it arrived, someone else could pick it up on their behalf, as long as another 4473 and NICS was done..thought this was comparable, but couldn't find anything specific on ATF website. I'll just eat shipping and be safe.. Thx That makes no sense. If you already have payed for it, filled out a 4473 & NICS why wouldn't you take them home with you? Just had my interview for my FFL, and he said if a guy bought a gun from me and passed NICS, but didn't take delivery, his wife could pick it up for him, as long as another NICS was done for her. The 11a tip cleared me up- repaired firearms may be picked up.. Thx man, sorry to stress ya Please explain how/why someone passed a NICS but wouldn't take delivery? A spouse can't just go pick up a gun for you after you buy it. The "11a tip" is for Gunsmithing and does not apply to sales. Your "agent" was not an agent, he was an IOI. He either is a moron, didn't understand your questions or you didn't understand his answers. |
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my apologies, should have asked my question differently, and asked,
Who can a dealer use to deliver online purchases? Ans: contract carriers only. I knew there was a situation where a third party could take delivery for the owner,but couldn't find the example at ATF. It was on 4473 11a. and involves gun smithing only. There was never going to be a purchase, only a third party delivery by non contract carrier..not acceptable. Some of the regs are confusing to my non legal mind, ex "a licensee may transfer a firearm to a nonlicensed person who does not appear in person at the licensed premises only when a background check is not required to transfer the firearm, and both reside in the same State. For example, a licensee may ship firearms to residents within the same State as the licensee where the transferee has a valid permit that has been recognized as an alternative to NICS" Does this not suggest a dealer can ship direct to a CCP holder in his state instead of a FFL? and... "A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun" This suggests to me anyway, individuals can ship to each other using a common carrier. I know they can't, but not from this. No doubt I misheard my IOI, as he was addressing the gun smithing option mentioned. |
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Quoted:
my apologies, should have asked my question differently, and asked, Who can a dealer use to deliver online purchases? Ans: contract carriers only. I knew there was a situation where a third party could take delivery for the owner,but couldn't find the example at ATF. It was on 4473 11a. and involves gun smithing only. There was never going to be a purchase, Did you not purchase the firearms you were going to have your wife pick up? 
only a third party delivery by non contract carrier..not acceptable. Some of the regs are confusing to my non legal mind, ex "a licensee may transfer a firearm to a nonlicensed person who does not appear in person at the licensed premises only when a background check is not required to transfer the firearm, and both reside in the same State. For example, a licensee may ship firearms to residents within the same State as the licensee where the transferee has a valid permit that has been recognized as an alternative to NICS" Does this not suggest a dealer can ship direct to a CCP holder in his state instead of a FFL? Absolutely not! If you are going to quote an ATF FAQ, it would behoove you to quote the entirety because you left out some pretty important stuff: "......where the licensee complies with the procedures set forth in 18 U.S.C. 922(c), 27 CFR 478.96(b) and ATF Procedure 2013–2. In any transaction where a NICS check is required, the firearm must be sold over–the–counter. [18 U.S.C. 922(c) and 922(t); 27 CFR 478.96 and 478.124; ATF Procedure 2013–2"] You need to read ATF Procedure 2013-2. The only transaction not subject to a NICS check by the dealer is the transfer of NFA firearms. and... "A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun" This suggests to me anyway, individuals can ship to each other using a common carrier. I know they can't, but not from this. No doubt I misheard my IOI, as he was addressing the gun smithing option mentioned. This means Federal law does not prohibit someone in Houston from shipping a firearm to someone in Dallas. Note the "own State" text. Although Federal law allows this, no common carrier (such as UPS or FedEx) permits nonlicensee to nonlicensee shipments. |
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