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10/17/2011 1:14:39 AM EDT
When you guys write ATF with a question of regs or what not where do you send it too ? I hope there is a way to get clarification of something in writing and not from the local field office.

I've seen letters before but never wrote one.

Also do you know if the local office would get a copy of your letter ? I am guessing not.

I was told something by the local IOI, that I am 99% sure is incorrect but I do not want to mess with it without having clarification otherwise.

Even with that I am not sure if I would, as it might piss him off, but I am considering it if I have proof otherwise.



10/17/2011 5:51:28 AM EDT
[#1]
Depends on the question.  Firearms Tech Branch, NFA Branch, and Legal are all possibilities.

Or you could just ask it here and someone could point you to the answer.
10/18/2011 10:37:12 PM EDT
[#2]
I usually just call the ATF inspector that came to do my pre-license interview. Anytime I have had a question he has been very helpful. The local ATF office has even started manning a table at the gunshows to hand out documents and answer questions.
10/20/2011 1:40:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I usually just call the ATF inspector that came to do my pre-license interview. Anytime I have had a question he has been very helpful. The local ATF office has even started manning a table at the gunshows to hand out documents and answer questions.


Make sure you get things in writing and do your due diligence.  Do not trust your IOI to provide you with the correct, legal answers.  During our initial interview, our IOI was wrong on quite a few things.  I actually had to point them out in the CFRs.
10/21/2011 11:37:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I usually just call the ATF inspector that came to do my pre-license interview. Anytime I have had a question he has been very helpful. The local ATF office has even started manning a table at the gunshows to hand out documents and answer questions.


Make sure you get things in writing and do your due diligence.  Do not trust your IOI to provide you with the correct, legal answers.  During our initial interview, our IOI was wrong on quite a few things.  I actually had to point them out in the CFRs.


Yes my IOI was wrong on a few things also which worries me. I have no plans to violate any law or regulation and will not at least intentionally, but I could have a problem if I've done something that he thinks is against the regs even if it isn't.
10/21/2011 11:48:21 PM EDT
[#5]
The question I inquired about was as follows.

The IOI informed me I cannot sell any firearm that I already had prior to obtained the FFL, unless I've possessed it one year. So if I've bought it 6 months ago, I can't add it to my book from myself and sell it.

I believe he is probably mixing that up with the rule that states an FFL who logs a gun out of his bound book to himself, cannot sell it privately until he has possessed it one year. If he sells sooner he must log it back into his books, and sell as a dealer rather than private individual.

I can find no regulation about not being allowed to log a gun in from myself regardless of how long I've had it.

I've bought a few guns in the last year that I would like to sell to gain more capital for my firearm business.

BTW, the correct way to log a gun in from yourself is just that, enter "from personal collection? "

Thats what I have done with a few that I've held prior to one year.

Thanks.

10/21/2011 11:49:02 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Depends on the question.  Firearms Tech Branch, NFA Branch, and Legal are all possibilities.

Or you could just ask it here and someone could point you to the answer.


Of those I guess it would be legal. Would not apply to Tech or NFA for sure.
10/23/2011 3:36:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Clearly the IOI was wrong, but as was said, maybe they got something mixed up with their understanding of the regs. Field IOIs need to be familiar with 27 CFR 478, 479, 18 USC 922, 923, about a bazillion ATF rulings, not to mention 27 CFR 555 and 18 USC 842 and 843 for explosives, so sometimes regulations can run into each other. If you are that concerned, notify the IOIs area supervisor and let him or her know of your concerns so they can ensure that it gets addressed at the field level.
10/23/2011 6:43:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
The question I inquired about was as follows.

The IOI informed me I cannot sell any firearm that I already had prior to obtained the FFL, unless I've possessed it one year. So if I've bought it 6 months ago, I can't add it to my book from myself and sell it.

I believe he is probably mixing that up with the rule that states an FFL who logs a gun out of his bound book to himself, cannot sell it privately until he has possessed it one year. If he sells sooner he must log it back into his books, and sell as a dealer rather than private individual.

I can find no regulation about not being allowed to log a gun in from myself regardless of how long I've had it.

I've bought a few guns in the last year that I would like to sell to gain more capital for my firearm business.

BTW, the correct way to log a gun in from yourself is just that, enter "from personal collection? "

Thats what I have done with a few that I've held prior to one year.

Thanks.




That's absolutely incorrect.  As a sole proprietor, you can log any gun you own in and sell it out of your books.  Your personal inventory is equal to your business inventory.  The one year provision comes into play when you buy a gun with your FFL.  You have to keep it in your personal collection for 1 year before you can sell it off the books, but as a dealer, I wouldn't want to make off the books transactions.

Each field office or group should have a Director of Industry Operations.  I'm surprised your IOI didn't give you a list of the groups/administrators in your field office.  Either way, look up who that person is on the ATF's website and give them a call.  They should be able to get things cleared up.
10/25/2011 8:24:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The question I inquired about was as follows.

The IOI informed me I cannot sell any firearm that I already had prior to obtained the FFL, unless I've possessed it one year. So if I've bought it 6 months ago, I can't add it to my book from myself and sell it.

I believe he is probably mixing that up with the rule that states an FFL who logs a gun out of his bound book to himself, cannot sell it privately until he has possessed it one year. If he sells sooner he must log it back into his books, and sell as a dealer rather than private individual.

I can find no regulation about not being allowed to log a gun in from myself regardless of how long I've had it.

I've bought a few guns in the last year that I would like to sell to gain more capital for my firearm business.

BTW, the correct way to log a gun in from yourself is just that, enter "from personal collection? "

Thats what I have done with a few that I've held prior to one year.

Thanks.




That's absolutely incorrect.  As a sole proprietor, you can log any gun you own in and sell it out of your books.  Your personal inventory is equal to your business inventory.  The one year provision comes into play when you buy a gun with your FFL.  You have to keep it in your personal collection for 1 year before you can sell it off the books, but as a dealer, I wouldn't want to make off the books transactions.

Each field office or group should have a Director of Industry Operations.  I'm surprised your IOI didn't give you a list of the groups/administrators in your field office.  Either way, look up who that person is on the ATF's website and give them a call.  They should be able to get things cleared up.


What do you mean by that ? (part in bold ) Certainly there is personal guns that are seperate from the business, such as guns I've had for years before being an ffl. But I see no reason I couldn't add them to the books if I wanted regardless of when I obtained them and I think thats what you are trying to say.

I agree about the 1 yr provision and I think thats where he got confused.

I wouldn't want to make off the books transactions either. Even if allowed to, such as a personal gun I'd had before getting an ffl, or a gun logged to myself but kept 1 yr, I'd still prefer to log it in and cover my ass.


10/28/2011 6:03:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
What do you mean by that ? (part in bold ) Certainly there is personal guns that are seperate from the business, such as guns I've had for years before being an ffl. But I see no reason I couldn't add them to the books if I wanted regardless of when I obtained them and I think thats what you are trying to say.

I agree about the 1 yr provision and I think thats where he got confused.

I wouldn't want to make off the books transactions either. Even if allowed to, such as a personal gun I'd had before getting an ffl, or a gun logged to myself but kept 1 yr, I'd still prefer to log it in and cover my ass.




That statement could come off as confusing.  As a sole proprietor, you personally own every gun in your inventory vs an entity like a corporation where the entity owns the guns, not the individual owners of the entity.  This is why when you go out of business, you can keep all the guns.  As an entity, if you wanted to transfer the guns to yourself upon going out of business, you'd have to 4473 every one of them.  You're right, you can have personal guns separate from your business inventory.
10/29/2011 9:16:11 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do you mean by that ? (part in bold ) Certainly there is personal guns that are seperate from the business, such as guns I've had for years before being an ffl. But I see no reason I couldn't add them to the books if I wanted regardless of when I obtained them and I think thats what you are trying to say.

I agree about the 1 yr provision and I think thats where he got confused.

I wouldn't want to make off the books transactions either. Even if allowed to, such as a personal gun I'd had before getting an ffl, or a gun logged to myself but kept 1 yr, I'd still prefer to log it in and cover my ass.




That statement could come off as confusing.  As a sole proprietor, you personally own every gun in your inventory vs an entity like a corporation where the entity owns the guns, not the individual owners of the entity.  This is why when you go out of business, you can keep all the guns.  As an entity, if you wanted to transfer the guns to yourself upon going out of business, you'd have to 4473 every one of them.  You're right, you can have personal guns separate from your business inventory.


Thats exactly how I understand it. I've studied the regs and I can find nothing about having to wait one year to sell a gun that I had before I got the ffl. It doesn't make sense anyway.
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