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Posted: 10/21/2010 6:12:31 PM EDT
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Just wondered what the going rate is for doing internet transfers or receiving firearms. (If you do it at all)
It's starting to really chap my ass when customers come in wanting me to receive a new gun from an online source that's selling them cheaper than I can buy them. It really pissed me off when I was put on Bud's Gun shop's "Exclusive Dealer" list without my consent... and a gun just showed up without my prior knowledge. It was ordered by a dirtbag I otherwise would not have sold a gun to... and really makes me 2nd guess doing transfers at all, unless it's a friend or someone I know personally. |
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Just wondered what the going rate is for doing internet transfers or receiving firearms. (If you do it at all) It's starting to really chap my ass when customers come in wanting me to receive a new gun from an online source that's selling them cheaper than I can buy them. It really pissed me off when I was put on Bud's Gun shop's "Exclusive Dealer" list without my consent... and a gun just showed up without my prior knowledge. It was ordered by a dirtbag I otherwise would not have sold a gun to... and really makes me 2nd guess doing transfers at all, unless it's a friend or someone I know personally. If someone sent me a gun without my prior consent I'd probably send it back freight collect........ When I got around to it |
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My local hardware store does my transfers for $20 each. Before I have a new gun transferred, I'll ask him if he can get said firearm for my net cost (Gun plus shipping plus his fee).
A former kitchen table dealer in the county did them for $10 before the ATF intervened. |
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Just wondered what the going rate is for doing internet transfers or receiving firearms. (If you do it at all) It's starting to really chap my ass when customers come in wanting me to receive a new gun from an online source that's selling them cheaper than I can buy them. It really pissed me off when I was put on Bud's Gun shop's "Exclusive Dealer" list without my consent... and a gun just showed up without my prior knowledge. It was ordered by a dirtbag I otherwise would not have sold a gun to... and really makes me 2nd guess doing transfers at all, unless it's a friend or someone I know personally. If someone sent me a gun without my prior consent I'd probably send it back freight collect........ When I got around to it That was my first thought... 
It did generate a not so happy phonecall to Bud's to have my "exclusive" status removed from their files. 
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My local hardware store does my transfers for $20 each. Before I have a new gun transferred, I'll ask him if he can get said firearm for my net cost (Gun plus shipping plus his fee). A former kitchen table dealer in the county did them for $10 before the ATF intervened. I've been charging $35 for internet transfers, $15 for ea add'l gun in the same transaction. Sometimes these guys are buying so cheap, I cannot compete... and make more by charging the $35 to transfer. It doesn't seem to be creating any new business or loyalty either... It only appears I'm being used for my FFL... especially when a guy orders in a $5000 rifle and I only make $35 putting it in his hands. Person to person handgun transfers (req'd in PA)... I charge $25 and $10 for ea add'l. |
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We do a lot of transfers only because our sales tax us 8.1%, so even if I sell the gun for cheaper than they buy it online, and shipping, and transfer fee.....it sometimes still works out cheaper for the customer because of the sales tax. I have a very loyal local following, and most of them get a quote from us before they buy online. Now that are store stock is a little larger, we usually only see transfers for used guns or guns we don't normally stock. I don't mind. We make money of it. $25 plus $5 per additional gun is our fees at the moment. I would like them higher, but It seems to be the average rate in town. I rather take some business making a transfer fee rather than have them do it somewhere else. Even though they aren't buying the gun from us, they seem to always buy ammo, holsters, cases, cleaning supplies, etc..... so I don't mind getting as many people as I can through our doors, and if that means I have to do transfers, then so be it. |
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Just wondered what the going rate is for doing internet transfers or receiving firearms. (If you do it at all) $5 Title I, $25 Title II It's starting to really chap my ass when customers come in wanting me to receive a new gun from an online source that's selling them cheaper than I can buy them.
Transfers bring 'em in, and you keep the lights on with sales on accessories. It really pissed me off when I was put on Bud's Gun shop's "Exclusive Dealer" list without my consent...
I guess your phone call had an effect, since they called us first to make sure we were cool with it. and a gun just showed up without my prior knowledge.
It's gonna happen. A lot. Get used to it. At least they include documentation on who sold it and who bought it. Just wait until you get one from "J Smith" with a return addess as a PO Box, and the buyer's name is an ARFCOM screen name with no other contact info. It was ordered by a dirtbag I otherwise would not have sold a gun to...
Doesn't matter whether it's a sale or a transfer, during our initial interview ATF told us that we could refuse to complete a transfer to anyone for any reason. and really makes me 2nd guess doing transfers at all, unless it's a friend or someone I know personally.
So charge enough to make the hassle worth your time. |
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If someone calls me FIRST and gives me the chance to get them the best price, I'll order it and do the transfer for free, if they don't and just tell me theres a gun coming it's $15. Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours...
I naively said ok when Buds called to put me on the "Prefered Dealer" list. Very soon thereafter I had guns showing up addressed to people with no contact info other than their name and address. With me only chaging $15 to transfer, I got off the list quick because I don't track people down. If they give me a call and told me I had a gun coming, that was fine, but they were ordering without giving me the courtesty and expecting me to do all the work.......wrong. I hope the ATF doesn't blow my front door and shoot my dog at 3am because I'm doing free transfers 
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A former kitchen table dealer in the county did them for $10 before the ATF intervened.  Huh?
There is no Federal law or ATF regulation that sets the price of a transfer. I can do transfers for free if I want. Their intervention wasn't related to the price of his transfers. (Sorry I didn't make that clearer.) The second-hand story I heard was that he was calling handgun purchases into NICS. The problem is that our state doesn't allow that, the buyer needs a 'Handgun Purchase Permit' to purchase a gun. So, even though he was getting BG checks done, it wasn't according to state law, and apparently the ATF gets involved with that since it involves guns, BG checks, etc. They gave him a choice: surrender your FFL or get arrested. He surrendered the FFL. |
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We charge $20 for up to 5 on one 4473.
We probably do one gun a day in an average week from Buds. People call us and ask us to go the Buds transfer, but our regulars know thats not needed. I tell people to go ahead and order from Buds just be sure you have the phone number right on your account there, when it comes in we call them. Instead of running from it we embrace the idea. Fact is when the guns arriving without a need to pay tax on it, on a $400+ gun they save by doing the transfer, i generally cant beat the price. So I take my $20 to the bank, and often they walk out with some bits and pieces they realized they needed. I haven't had to spend time ordering something, i haven't had to sit on an item for a time, i do less paperwork but still get $20..... cant complain. |
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It's starting to really chap my ass when customers come in wanting me to receive a new gun from an online source that's selling them cheaper than I can buy them. Let me get this straight, you're pissed that folks are coming through the door asking you to do a transfer for them instead of buying directly from you? If you're able to compete with the price of the firearm I can understand your frustration but if not I cannot. Are you upset that your opportunities for "unchecked price setting" have become limited? Kind of sounds like it. This sounds like some old-school shops that we have around here that haven't yet realized that there's this new thing called the Internet (you know, the one that Gore invented?). Whether folks like it or not this has been a game changer in the FFL world as pretty much anyone with 1/2 a brain can find what a certain firearm is worth paying for. My local FFL takes $25 per transfer and maybe $5 for additional depending if he wants it or not that day (I always pay him anyway). I'm happy to pay it as he's very easy to work with. I always call and let him know that X firearm is coming via X from X. He calls when it's in and then I go do the paperwork. It works great as long as I follow his rules of always letting him know what's coming from where and always have it shipped via UPS or USPS (FedEx just doesn't seem to work around these parts very well). He actually prefers it this way compared to him wasting time trying to find what I'm looking for, ordering it, and then paying out of his own pocket. All that he has to do is let me know when it's in and then complete the paperwork. Simple. My advice to you would be to begin charging for the transfers so you get something out of it. Otherwise simply refuse to do any transfers at all so you don't have the hassle. My prediction if you choose the latter? You won't have to worry about customers bothering you much longer as they'll find someone else to work with. And just for the record, I have absolutely no problem with an FFL holder charging to do a transfer. I fully realize that they need to make some money or they're not going to be in business long. |
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He actually prefers it this way compared to him wasting time trying to find what I'm looking for, ordering it, and then paying out of his own pocket. All that he has to do is let me know when it's in and then complete the paperwork. Simple. To be honest, up until a certain dollar amount we do too, transfers we know what we are getting, and i dont have to go hunting for the gun and do all the relevant purchase etc... |
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We try to get people to come in beforehand to let us know it's coming, along with filing out a form that says who they are, and who and where the gun is coming from. We also have a spot where they have to sign acknowledging they know and understand they will have to pay the state use tax, equal to the sales tax, to include the shipping charges, on any guns coming in... and anything else on that invoice or receipt. And that no they can not just call it a gift since we would have to establish fair market value. Someone at the Dept. of Revenue realized that gun transfers are recorded and they could actually enforce the 70+ year old law on this too. Before this it was only vehicles. If you don't pay sales tax when you buy something you are legally required to report it to the state and pay the use tax. Go to Oregon and buy a sofa and we're supposed to pay the tax for the "privilege" of using it in WA. Yes, the law actually says privilege!
It's caused a little bit of a slowdown in transfers of new guns, mostly people are buying used ones, collectibles, or commemorative. A lot of military units are having pistols engraved. Easy enough money and often you can get sales of things like ammo, a holster, or cleaning supplies. Not a big deal really. As long as it's something we know about it's easy money. Some random gun without any contact information for the buyer, and a PO Box address for the seller is a pain. Especially when the buyer finally comes in angry we never called him... um, yeah we didn't know about it and there was no contact information shipped. Not to mention the person that sold the gun is mad that we are asking for their complete name and address. I do have to laugh inside when someone buys a new gun someplace then has it transferred in and it's something we sell for less. |
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I pay $15. And so I can make purchases quickly and not have to wait for him to send his FFL... he gave me a copy of it, so that I can send it to the sellers. Then I just email him and give him a "heads up" that it's coming. He's a pretty awesome guy. It's been my understanding that it is not permissible for an FFL to give his license to a non-licensee. Can't remember where I read that, but that's the way I've understood it since I opened shop. I have no problem faxing my FFL to a dealer, but I won't hand a copy to a stranger. |
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I pay $15. And so I can make purchases quickly and not have to wait for him to send his FFL... he gave me a copy of it, so that I can send it to the sellers. Then I just email him and give him a "heads up" that it's coming. He's a pretty awesome guy. It's been my understanding that it is not permissible for an FFL to give his license to a non-licensee. Can't remember where I read that, but that's the way I've understood it since I opened shop. I have no problem faxing my FFL to a dealer, but I won't hand a copy to a stranger. While there's no law against it, we've been asked not to by the ATF. Non-FFL's just get the first 3 and last 5 of our license # so they can use FFL EZCheck to look us up. |
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I pay $15. And so I can make purchases quickly and not have to wait for him to send his FFL... he gave me a copy of it, so that I can send it to the sellers. Then I just email him and give him a "heads up" that it's coming. He's a pretty awesome guy. It's been my understanding that it is not permissible for an FFL to give his license to a non-licensee. Can't remember where I read that, but that's the way I've understood it since I opened shop. I have no problem faxing my FFL to a dealer, but I won't hand a copy to a stranger. While there's no law against it, we've been asked not to by the ATF. Non-FFL's just get the first 3 and last 5 of our license # so they can use FFL EZCheck to look us up. Yep, that's pretty much how I understood things. I think of it like this... If a copy of my FFL were to get into the wrong hands... what's to stop them from hitting a gunshow and buying several guns with my FFL ? My FFL only lists the name of my LLC on it... and I've heard from others who have FFL's, they are seldom asked for ID when using the license at a show. In my opinion, it's a HUGE security risk, putting a copy of your FFL in a strangers hands. |
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I think of it like this... If a copy of my FFL were to get into the wrong hands... what's to stop them from hitting a gunshow and buying several guns with my FFL ? My FFL only lists the name of my LLC on it... and I've heard from others who have FFL's, they are seldom asked for ID when using the license at a show. In my opinion, it's a HUGE security risk, putting a copy of your FFL in a strangers hands. The risk is taken by the dealer who accepts a license, not by the dealer who submits one. I put my FFL into the hands of strangers every day with no worries. There are valid copies of my FFL on file with at least 1,200 other dealers, manufacturers, distributors, etc. There is ZERO risk or responsibility on my part for anything that happens with that FFL. It is the responsibility of the shipper to verify the correct address of the receiving dealer. If the address on the FFL does not match what is shown on EZ Check- the shipper should not ship the firearm. It's as simple as that. Dealers who accept an FFL at a gun show for transfer and fail to record the ID of the person who is using it..........are idiots. Photoshopping an FFL is a piece of cake for an 8th grader. As the ATF loves to tell us: KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER! |
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I pay $15. And so I can make purchases quickly and not have to wait for him to send his FFL... he gave me a copy of it, so that I can send it to the sellers. Then I just email him and give him a "heads up" that it's coming. He's a pretty awesome guy. It's been my understanding that it is not permissible for an FFL to give his license to a non-licensee. Can't remember where I read that, but that's the way I've understood it since I opened shop. I have no problem faxing my FFL to a dealer, but I won't hand a copy to a stranger. While there's no law against it, we've been asked not to by the ATF. Non-FFL's just get the first 3 and last 5 of our license # so they can use FFL EZCheck to look us up. Yep, that's pretty much how I understood things. I think of it like this... If a copy of my FFL were to get into the wrong hands... what's to stop them from hitting a gunshow and buying several guns with my FFL ? My FFL only lists the name of my LLC on it... and I've heard from others who have FFL's, they are seldom asked for ID when using the license at a show. In my opinion, it's a HUGE security risk, putting a copy of your FFL in a strangers hands. even if the FFL is in your company name you still write in your name and sign it (on newer FFLs). giving out an unsigned FFL would be pretty dumb IMO. |
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