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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sabre Defense - RIP (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/4/2011 3:55:33 AM EDT
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This might have been a contributing factor, over and above other reasons, why Steyr halted production of the A3.
Shooting Wire report - Sabre Defense Liquidation |
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This might have been a contributing factor, over and above other reasons, why Steyr halted production of the A3. Shooting Wire report - Sabre Defense Liquidation I swear when saw this post I instantly thought "guess TOMBIRDMAN bought an AUG too"! 
I am shocked they are in bad shape! They have (had?) gov't contracts + plus the AUG A3 + their ARs. I guess our fist clue should have been the sale of lots of parts to Pete. Maybe the AUG A3 is going in house only (A3 USG?). Dr. H |
They did get sued a coupe years ago by a sub contractor, and I'm sure that contributed to this.
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My bet is Steyr was using "the economy" as an easy out because they needed a reason to tell their customers, and they no doubt had a non-disclosure with Sabre. I wonder what happens to the Steyr Tooling that Sabre has? Surely that goes back to Steyr right, and is not considered an asset of Sabre's, correct? |
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My bet is Steyr was using "the economy" as an easy out because they needed a reason to tell their customers, and they no doubt had a non-disclosure with Sabre. I wonder what happens to the Steyr Tooling that Sabre has? Surely that goes back to Steyr right, and is not considered an asset of Sabre's, correct? my guess i the tooling was leased and thus reverts back to steyr when sabre desolves. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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A poster on USAAUG has stated that he has heard from sources within Steyr that they have acquired all their tooling back from Sabre, and are in negotiations with another manufacturer to resume production. Seems like more than one person has come back from SHOT with similar rumors, and Silent seems to have hinted at something similar. Its all rumor and innuendo for now, but lets hope it ends up being true... |
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Someone I know had actually heard about this while at SHOT Show and told me about it, which is why I suggested a few weeks ago that Steyr might be cranking out A3's sooner than folks think since the reasoning for them pulling the A3 wasn't the economy or lack of sales, but the whole Sabre mess that they knew all about. This is really horrible though. Sabre Defence produced a fine product and had been making gains by acquiring military contracts. The LSR-50 looks to be an amazing rifle and I really hope someone picks it up to get into production with it. You've got to feel for Steyr on this one as well. I mean we know about the issues Steyr has had in the past when dealing with GSI who imported in their firearms and provided warranty service and now this whole fiasco with Sabre. The guys at Steyr Mannlicher must be thinking "what the hell is wrong with these Americans?" |
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Quoted: I wonder if they were prevented for giving their real reason due to a non-disclosure agreement? Someone I know had actually heard about this while at SHOT Show and told me about it, which is why I suggested a few weeks ago that Steyr might be cranking out A3's sooner than folks think since the reasoning for them pulling the A3 wasn't the economy or lack of sales, but the whole Sabre mess that they knew all about. This is really horrible though. Sabre Defence produced a fine product and had been making gains by acquiring military contracts. The LSR-50 looks to be an amazing rifle and I really hope someone picks it up to get into production with it. You've got to feel for Steyr on this one as well. I mean we know about the issues Steyr has had in the past when dealing with GSI who imported in their firearms and provided warranty service and now this whole fiasco with Sabre. The guys at Steyr Mannlicher must be thinking "what the hell is wrong with these Americans?" |
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Quoted: I heard MSAR had actually bought the tooling from Sabre. All they're waiting on is someone to haul all the equipment to their facility....  Honestly it's too bad MSAR is not in a stronger financial position as I bet a lot of excellent tooling at Sabre will be going for some very reasonable prices. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I wonder if they were prevented for giving their real reason due to a non-disclosure agreement? Someone I know had actually heard about this while at SHOT Show and told me about it, which is why I suggested a few weeks ago that Steyr might be cranking out A3's sooner than folks think since the reasoning for them pulling the A3 wasn't the economy or lack of sales, but the whole Sabre mess that they knew all about. This is really horrible though. Sabre Defence produced a fine product and had been making gains by acquiring military contracts. The LSR-50 looks to be an amazing rifle and I really hope someone picks it up to get into production with it. You've got to feel for Steyr on this one as well. I mean we know about the issues Steyr has had in the past when dealing with GSI who imported in their firearms and provided warranty service and now this whole fiasco with Sabre. The guys at Steyr Mannlicher must be thinking "what the hell is wrong with these Americans?" Well, I've also heard that it's possible there could be or will be litigation involving Sabre and Steyr. Sabre seems to be in a real mess. 
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"Opportunity to continue business at existing location with equipment in place. "
Im guessing this doesnt affect Sabre of Britain the parent company, so their getting out of the American market. Who do we now trust to make a quality AUG here in America ? does Steyr pack it up and go home ? Stay and build it themselves ? Who would Steyr trust to build it ? |
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Quoted: I'm only a lowly C3 not a C2 so can't buy it even if I had a few million to spare. secondly these only sold for $5-700 when they were importing them. It was only after the ban that the price shot up. You can buy an old Austria AUG for what they ask wholesale for a new one. What is really different besides the stock? I can understand if they are recouping massive R&D, but I don't think they are since it's essentially a 30 year old design.Quoted: The AUG is a cursed platform! They also overcharged the shit for them. There is no way those should be $1800 wholesale!  Now you have a chance to put your money where your mouth is, buy the whole package and make them youself for less money . |
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Quoted: Not unfired you can't. An unfired AUGs are all running over $2400 at minimum. The ones you see down near the $1850 market price which PJs and Specialist (the two largest AUG sellers) were asking are all well used and pretty heavily worn. A comparable used A3 would sell for significantly less...Quoted: I'm only a lowly C3 not a C2 so can't buy it even if I had a few million to spare. secondly these only sold for $5-700 when they were importing them. It was only after the ban that the price shot up. You can buy an old Austria AUG for what they ask wholesale for a new one. What is really different besides the stock? I can understand if they are recouping massive R&D, but I don't think they are since it's essentially a 30 year old design.Quoted: The AUG is a cursed platform! They also overcharged the shit for them. There is no way those should be $1800 wholesale! Now you have a chance to put your money where your mouth is, buy the whole package and make them youself for less money . Plus $700 in 1985 dollars is about $1450 in 2010 dollars, plus once you factor in Sabre's cut and the loss of the dollar in exchange to Euro's comparatively and you're at about the same cost as before. |
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Whats my Sabre / Steyr AUG "variant " worth now ? It will be interesting to see the future spin / prices on these . What's everyone's feeling on this? I pick mine up tomorrow and ordered it before I knew about Sabre's troubles. My luck they'll probably drop like a rock |
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Quoted: "Opportunity to continue business at existing location with equipment in place. " Im guessing this doesnt affect Sabre of Britain the parent company, so their getting out of the American market. Who do we now trust to make a quality AUG here in America ? does Steyr pack it up and go home ? Stay and build it themselves ? Who would Steyr trust to build it ? There are plenty of good companies that could do as good a job or even better than Sabre. The new ownership might be really good. When Steyr changed ownership things certainly improved. All depends on the new owners. |
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Whats my Sabre / Steyr AUG "variant " worth now ? It will be interesting to see the future spin / prices on these . What's everyone's feeling on this? I pick mine up tomorrow and ordered it before I knew about Sabre's troubles. My luck they'll probably drop like a rock They will go up in value. Why would they drop in value? Plenty of parts and Steyr still services them. Its not like Steyr closed shop. Has anyone verified that Sabre has closed shop? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whats my Sabre / Steyr AUG "variant " worth now ? It will be interesting to see the future spin / prices on these . What's everyone's feeling on this? I pick mine up tomorrow and ordered it before I knew about Sabre's troubles. My luck they'll probably drop like a rock They will go up in value. Why would they drop in value? Plenty of parts and Steyr still services them. Its not like Steyr closed shop. Has anyone verified that Sabre has closed shop? Yeah, if anything they will go up in value. They are still Steyr rifles built to Steyrs specs on Steyr tooling, all parts are interchangeable and they are fully backed by Steyr. In fact they may be considered a rare variant a decade from now, and significantly more valuable. According to MrBeans post above, Sabre's doors are still open and they are just looking to transfer ownership... |
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Quoted: I am just speculating here, but I would not be surprised to see DSA. DSA has a good working relation with Steyr, as they bought their FAL tooling from Steyr. They were also the importer of the Steyr TMP before it was sold to B&T. Supposedly they were in negotiations back around 2006 to bring the AUG to the US.Quoted: "Opportunity to continue business at existing location with equipment in place. " Im guessing this doesnt affect Sabre of Britain the parent company, so their getting out of the American market. Who do we now trust to make a quality AUG here in America ? does Steyr pack it up and go home ? Stay and build it themselves ? Who would Steyr trust to build it ? There are plenty of good companies that could do as good a job or even better than Sabre. The new ownership might be really good. When Steyr changed ownership things certainly improved. All depends on the new owners. Just my guess... |
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The AUG is a cursed platform! They also overcharged the shit for them. There is no way those should be $1800 wholesale! Now you have a chance to put your money where your mouth is, buy the whole package and make them youself for less money . Of all of the guys on this site, P08 is one that I wouldn't put it past to do just that, if he wanted to... |
| As nice as Sabre's AR parts were, they were over priced. I think they tried the 'we are more expensive, so we must be better' marketing approach. I really wanted a Sabre 6.5 Grendel upper, but their prices were crazy. I built my own with an Alexander Arms barrel for half the money. Again, I am not happy to see them go down. But they priced themselves out of the market with the main backing being that they had some military contracts. |
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Not unfired you can't. An unfired AUGs are all running over $2400 at minimum. The ones you see down near the $1850 market price which PJs and Specialist (the two largest AUG sellers) were asking are all well used and pretty heavily worn. A comparable used A3 would sell for significantly less...
Plus $700 in 1985 dollars is about $1450 in 2010 dollars, plus once you factor in Sabre's cut and the loss of the dollar in exchange to Euro's comparatively and you're at about the same cost as before. If you're a SOT (Title II dealer or manufacturer), you can get a select-fire AUG straight from Austria, if a LE department in your area requested one or two for a demo. Guess how much a real Steyr AUG costs in such low quantities? About $1200 USD. Caveat is that was last year's price. They're all gravy at this point for Steyr, all the R&D and tooling has already been paid for, so there costs is just materials and labor for them now, and the rest is gravy. |
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I wish Steyr and SDI well.
But, I am not sure we should hope for DSA to take the reins of the A3. DSA makes an awesome rifle, but, they are a Custom shop, they do not mass produce anything. DSA employs fewer people than Springfield Armory does. Take a look at how scarce Springfield's new M1A's are. Springfield Armory has less then twenty employees and DSA has about the same. DSA's bread and butter XD is totally imported. |
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What about Daniel Defense? They are set-up now to do their own cold hammer forged barrels. Did Steyr provide the tooling to do the A3's cast receivers? I'd imagine they'd have to, as I don't think Sabre had any sort of product that used that sort of technology. DD would be an excellent choice, but they are pretty proud of their work (though understandably because their products are awesome) so I can imagine they'd charge more than what SDI did. They also overexpanded during the ZOMG GUN PARTS RUSH and bled a lot because of it, so they're probably pretty leery of new expansion right now. Bushmaster? 
Actually, Stag Arms might be a reasonable choice; they are just the commercial firearms division of Continental Machine Tool, and CMT is setup to produce just about everything. |
All of this might be moot if Dianne Feinstein convinces the President to have the ATF narrow the sporting clause interpretation to ban imported "assault weapons"  http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6207 They just did it to shotguns, now they're being pushed to do so to rifles too... |
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Whats my Sabre / Steyr AUG "variant " worth now ? It will be interesting to see the future spin / prices on these . What's everyone's feeling on this? I pick mine up tomorrow and ordered it before I knew about Sabre's troubles. My luck they'll probably drop like a rock They will go up in value. Why would they drop in value? Plenty of parts and Steyr still services them. Its not like Steyr closed shop. Has anyone verified that Sabre has closed shop? Yeah, if anything they will go up in value. They are still Steyr rifles built to Steyrs specs on Steyr tooling, all parts are interchangeable and they are fully backed by Steyr. In fact they may be considered a rare variant a decade from now, and significantly more valuable. According to MrBeans post above, Sabre's doors are still open and they are just looking to transfer ownership... His article is from the beginning of January, the foreclosure notice and notice of auction was from earlier this week. I would hazard a guess that the deal with Micor fell through or was refused by the bank. |
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Quoted: All of this might be moot if Dianne Feinstein convinces the President to have the ATF narrow the sporting clause interpretation to ban imported "assault weapons" http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6207 They just did it to shotguns, now they're being pushed to do so to rifles too... Oh man...I seriously feel sick to my stomach after reading that, because I know Obama will do it. I'm going to go vomit now. How is tightening the importation of firearms into the US going to reduce violence in Mexico? They import whatever they want into Mexico and haulting firearms from overseas coming into the US isn't going to slow them down a single step. Why do we have to be punished for shit that is happening in another damn country? I'm so sick of these people. |
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All of this might be moot if Dianne Feinstein convinces the President to have the ATF narrow the sporting clause interpretation to ban imported "assault weapons"
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6207 They just did it to shotguns, now they're being pushed to do so to rifles too... Oh man...I seriously feel sick to my stomach after reading that, because I know Obama will do it. I'm going to go vomit now. How is tightening the importation of firearms into the US going to reduce violence in Mexico? They import whatever they want into Mexico and haulting firearms from overseas coming into the US isn't going to slow them down a single step. Why do we have to be punished for shit that is happening in another damn country? I'm so sick of these people. Make sure after you throw up to write your letters to the ATF, Senator, and Rep. |
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Quoted: Did you read Feinswine's letter, and not just the NRA brief? She specifically calls out "bringing in rifle parts and reassembling them with a small number of domestically manufactured components." If the definition gets narrowed, the AUG is DOA as is the SCAR, PS90, FS2000, AK, etc... And you can forget the Tavor or the new Beretta or anything else cool... Quoted: All of this might be moot if Dianne Feinstein convinces the President to have the ATF narrow the sporting clause interpretation to ban imported "assault weapons" http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=6207 They just did it to shotguns, now they're being pushed to do so to rifles too... Oh man...I seriously feel sick to my stomach after reading that, because I know Obama will do it. I'm going to go vomit now. How is tightening the importation of firearms into the US going to reduce violence in Mexico? They import whatever they want into Mexico and haulting firearms from overseas coming into the US isn't going to slow them down a single step. Why do we have to be punished for shit that is happening in another damn country? I'm so sick of these people. |
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Quoted: Did you read Feinswine's letter, and not just the NRA brief? She specifically calls out "bringing in rifle parts and reassembling them with a small number of domestically manufactured components." If the definition gets narrowed, the AUG is DOA as is the SCAR, PS90, FS2000, AK, etc... And you can forget the Tavor or the new Beretta or anything else cool... Yup, it would basically kill every cool firearm I really like and limit competition to domestic firms harming the whole community. It would also hurt retailers and distributors along with the jobs that are created in the US by making those compliance parts during the worse economy we've had in decades in a futile attempt to have an impact on violence in another country that we have zero control over. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Sabre Defense - RIP (Page 1 of 2)
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