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Posted: 11/23/2010 12:31:08 PM EDT
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I dont believe this issue to be good for accuracy and found it while reading another post . I then checked my STG and found i had the same issue. I can grab my rail or barrel assembly and while holding the butt of the stock , twist the rail/receiver side to side and see the carrier moving side too side through the mag well.It was more apparent when i put the butt in a padded vise. Movement on mine was at least an 1/8 inch or more. The original poster had even more. See the youtube video near the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KJOAYU5tIE |
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my 20" E4 has a little barrel play (very slight but visible and makes a clicking sound) and if my 16"E4 has any play it's so small that i can't see or hear it. could be that the 20" has a longer torque arm and I can push and pull against the 2020 optic rail (16" has a standard rail). both shoot fine.
some rifles, like the ps90, are designed to have barrel play. |
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my 20" E4 has a little barrel play (very slight but visible and makes a clicking sound) and if my 16"E4 has any play it's so small that i can't see or hear it. could be that the 20" has a longer torque arm and I can push and pull against the 2020 optic rail (16" has a standard rail). both shoot fine. some rifles, like the ps90, are designed to have barrel play. Its not so much the barrel play , that has been documented before, but its the side to side carrier movement inside the stock when you look inside the mag well. This means the barrel and receiver are moving side to side. |
This is the AUG version of a free float barrel. 
All kidding aside, the receiver, scope/rail, barrel and bolt/carrier are all locked together regardless of the play in the stock/receiver interface. When the cartridge discharges, until the projectile leaves the barrel, everything is one unit. If you think about it this way, there is no way the shooter can control the harmonics of the rifle even if the stock was much tighter. unless the slop is so bad that the shooter can't hold the point of aim, this is a non-issue. |
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This is exactly one of the problems I had with the SECOND rifle MSAR sent me for warranty. The barrel and receiver had so much play you could physically see the reticle in the factory optic shift from side to side when you grabbed the vertical grip-there was no way it would shoot consistantly.
My Steyr AUG A3 has zero play like this. |
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This is exactly one of the problems I had with the SECOND rifle MSAR sent me for warranty. The barrel and receiver had so much play you could physically see the reticle in the factory optic shift from side to side when you grabbed the vertical grip-there was no way it would shoot consistantly. My Steyr AUG A3 has zero play like this. If they're all moving together, it shouldn't affect accuracy, right? It's the same principal as with an AR15. Alot of them have slop between the upper/lower receiver, but as long as the optic is mounted solidly to the upper, it will shoot pretty much POA/POI. I could be wrong, but I thought this was the case. |
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joedirt is correct. The only thing that can effect accuracy is the barrel to receiver interface. If the barrel fits tight in the receiver and your optic fits tight on the rail then the play between the receiver and stock is just an anoyance. I have one E4 with a sloppy barrel and one with a tight barrel. 2020's barrel play fix took care of the sloppy one. The only way I know of to tighten up and eliminate the play between the receiver and stock if you have a sloppy fit is to build up the indexing nub on the stock. I did this on one of my E4's by putting a thin film of JB Weld epoxy on the stock indexing nub and then carefully filing the JB Weld down when cured just enough to produce a tight upper to stock fit. Combined with 2020's fix and I have a rock solid platform. My second E4 is still very tight but when it settles in and loostens up, I will do the same work on that one. Think of it like the sloppy slide to frame fit or play you get with most Glocks, S&W M&P's, and Springer XD's. The slide may rattle on the frame but if the sights are secure and the barrel locks up tight in the slide, then accuracy will be dead nuts on. MadDog 
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This is the AUG version of a free float barrel.
All kidding aside, the receiver, scope/rail, barrel and bolt/carrier are all locked together regardless of the play in the stock/receiver interface. When the cartridge discharges, until the projectile leaves the barrel, everything is one unit. If you think about it this way, there is no way the shooter can control the harmonics of the rifle even if the stock was much tighter. unless the slop is so bad that the shooter can't hold the point of aim, this is a non-issue. I see what your saying, but im a little confused. Im used to bolt action rifles and m14 where the stock is glass or aluminum bedded for a snug fit between stock and action.Hell they even unitize the m14 gas system to the handguard/stock for better accuracy. Maybe im trying to compare combat accuracy to match accuracy. |
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I understand that there's a little play between the reciever/barrel/optic and the stock... and that that shouldn't effect accuracy in any way. Hell, even a little rotation in the barrel in the reciever isn't that big of a deal, provided it's not shifting side-to-side anywhere.
I think what he's trying to denonstrate is play between the chaber end of the barrel and the reciever, which WOULD effect accuracy. I'm thankful I'm not experiencing eith issue at the moment. |
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I understand that there's a little play between the reciever/barrel/optic and the stock... and that that shouldn't effect accuracy in any way. Hell, even a little rotation in the barrel in the reciever isn't that big of a deal, provided it's not shifting side-to-side anywhere. I think what he's trying to denonstrate is play between the chaber end of the barrel and the reciever, which WOULD effect accuracy. I'm thankful I'm not experiencing eith issue at the moment. Towards the end of the video he shows the movement of the carrier inside the stock and that got me thinking about accuracy, but my old school ways of bedding stocks got me a little confused.The other guys were right . I think it probably wont affect accuracy unless your looking for extreme accuracy such as in a bolt action match or sniper rifle. So i guess in the AUG platform it wouldnt affect it enough to notice. |
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no, you are correct,, the looser it is in the stock,, the less accurate it will be. The stock may not move when you shoot,,,but the action and barrel will. It is just like limp wristing a pistol. A little building-up with JB-Weld and filing to fit can remove most of the play... |
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It should fit from the factory. You should not have to use JB weld or anything else to make it fit. I watched the video and that gun stinks to high heaven. I know this does not help but if it were me I would give up on it and trade it in on a Steyr or just get rid of it..
I'm sorry you spent your money and are not satisfied. This crap is why I do not like MSAR. |
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It should fit from the factory. You should not have to use JB weld or anything else to make it fit. I watched the video and that gun stinks to high heaven. I know this does not help but if it were me I would give up on it and trade it in on a Steyr or just get rid of it.. I'm sorry you spent your money and are not satisfied. This crap is why I do not like MSAR. I'd tend to agree. I'd be pissed about having to apply JB Weld on my $1000 or $1500 rifle. Either the nub on the stock or the receiver is not made to spec or this wouldn't be required. My AXR has 5000 plus rounds through it and there is ZERO play between the stock/receiver, barrel/trunnion, or anywhere else for that matter. Not trying to gloat, but facts are facts and there's no reason that MSAR couldn't address some of these issues before the rifles leave the factory. |
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Sometimes when things are too tight, the gun become finicky with different ammo and weather conditions. The AK47 for example. loose toloerances and shoots under any circumstance. If you are looking for a tack-driver the AUG probably wasn't the right choice.
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! 
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Sometimes when things are too tight, the gun become finicky with different ammo and weather conditions. The AK47 for example. loose toloerances and shoots under any circumstance. If you are looking for a tack-driver the AUG probably wasn't the right choice. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! Thanks and Happy Holidays to you also. I have to disagree with your statement about too tight, yes too tight as in a custom 1911 where everything is tight can be great for accuracy but not so good when dirty. But this issue has to do with tolerances not "too tight ".MSAR claims to have tolerances down to the thousands but i dont have convidence with that statement. My A3 proves how close tolerances can be and at the same time not be too tight. It can be done and i hope MSAR can improve in this area. Both my MSAR STG rifles were very poor in the tolerance area. |
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Maybe it's not the right platform for that guy. 
Complaining about tolerances, but never once mentions how it shoots. he said he was "getting 8" groups ", another words; it shot like crap and that's what first caught his attention and caused him to start investigating. my first gun was a S&W 45ACP pistol. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it so I went out and got another S&W pistol in .40cal and I sucked shooting that too. I finally realized that the slides and barrels where so dam loose with so much wobble with both guns that I sold them and started shooting sigs, hk's and glocks...problem solved. sounds like a lemon to me |
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