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Posted: 9/29/2009 2:35:47 PM EDT
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CTAR w/ 14.9 and perm attached hider or threaded 16"
With optic without optic |
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My thoughts... This coming from the owner os a ps90/ msar and fs2000..
get the thing to market asap. And at a retail/ street price of $1k or less. My preference would be a 16" bbl, a compensator (not flash hider) and ship with a 10rd mag (or no mag assuming AR mags). This way it should be sellable in just about all states (I am in Mass). If the barrels are easily removable, sell a 14+ hider as an after market option, this will allow the flow of finished goods more quickly and add potential add on sales down the road. If a person wants to SBR/ Thread/ chop /recrown, that is what they make gunsmiths for. With the amount of after market sites optics and buis available. let the individuals chose what they'd like. Offer official Tavor sites as after market accessories. And help to keep the entry price as low as possible. |
| I would imagine a price tag around $1500 or so give or take $100 if this is the case they will controle the bullpup market. I paid $1900 for my FS2000 and it was a piece of crap so as long as they don't perm atatch the flash hider or skimp on quality they will have the best bullpup on the market so far. I have had an AUG and an FS2000 the FS is built like a cheap toy and the AUG is too complicated for what it is, if CD does this right they will have a real cash cow. |
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So people want this to be better than the AR in quality, and cost less than a quality AR? That probably won't happen - just sayin'. There are plenty of quality ARs out there in the 700-1k range. If this is to be accepted on a large scale it has to be the same or better quality than an AR for the same money or less. |
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Yeah I don't think you fully understand R&D costs with small companys. I also am not aware of any AR I would trust that is less than $900 to $1000, QC is expensive and if the QC standards don't meet milspec I will not buy it. This is why I am happy about the hammer forged chrome lined 1/7 barrel on this rifle it excedes mil spec requirements.
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So people want this to be better than the AR in quality, and cost less than a quality AR? That probably won't happen - just sayin'. There are plenty of quality ARs out there in the 700-1k range. If this is to be accepted on a large scale it has to be the same or better quality than an AR for the same money or less. |
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Mr. K posted that he will be coming out with both versions (railed and integral optic) initially in the orrigional post towords the last page if you want to check. I was worried about this as well so I thought I would let you know since Mr. K is only posting in the first thread so far.
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Please let us choose our own optic.  |
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I would imagine a price tag around $1500 or so give or take $100 if this is the case they will controle the bullpup market. I paid $1900 for my FS2000 and it was a piece of crap so as long as they don't perm atatch the flash hider or skimp on quality they will have the best bullpup on the market so far. I have had an AUG and an FS2000 the FS is built like a cheap toy and the AUG is too complicated for what it is, if CD does this right they will have a real cash cow. The AUG is complicated?? 
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| i think 16in with flashhider would be simplest for people who want to swap things out or use a can, and seriously anybody expecting this rifle to be less than $2000 is dreaming, i would not want a compensator too loud/ most states dont have the ban, i think getting it with the ITL MARS and irons should be standard, with a railed version later on, but thats just cause im a sucker for the aesthetics of the whole tavor package, and come on arent we all gonna buy it cause it looks cool, i know i am |
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I would imagine a price tag around $1500 or so give or take $100 if this is the case they will controle the bullpup market. I paid $1900 for my FS2000 and it was a piece of crap so as long as they don't perm atatch the flash hider or skimp on quality they will have the best bullpup on the market so far. I have had an AUG and an FS2000 the FS is built like a cheap toy and the AUG is too complicated for what it is, if CD does this right they will have a real cash cow. The AUG is complicated?? Yeah...this had me scratching my head, too. I'm curious, what makes the Tavor such a wonder weapon? Is it because it's Israeli? Has it been through some incredible battery of tests that every other weapon failed? Or is it mostly the allure and belief that it will somehow be "better" because it's been forbidden fruit? I'm not knocking it and will probably buy one. Hell, KBI is right up the road from where I live and the new line will mean more jobs in the area, so I want it to succeed. But is it really, quantifiably better than the other rifles that have been mentioned? I remember the Galil and how it was supposed to be the next great thing and it turned out to be largely a dud due to a variety of issues. |
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I agree with this too. I know people have personal preferences and like to customize but I'd just like to see something as close as possible to the military Tavor, which I think features the MARS sight as standard. The Mepro is found only on the Canadian variants no? Anyway, I can't decide whether I'd rather have the 15 inch barrel (with fixed flash suppressor) or the 18 inch, but I'd like to see those options made available, at least initially.
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Offer it in 14.9 and 18 like the originals. The fewer changes from the original the better....and quicker. |
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anybody expecting this rifle to be less than $2000 is dreaming, Just curious, but why do you think this? I'm very much looking forward to the Tavor, but if it is over $2000 my interest will drop considerably. Only time will tell, but I don't think $1500-$2000 seems so outlandish. |
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anybody expecting this rifle to be less than $2000 is dreaming, Just curious, but why do you think this? I'm very much looking forward to the Tavor, but if it is over $2000 my interest will drop considerably. Only time will tell, but I don't think $1500-$2000 seems so outlandish. +1 ???? |
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I would imagine a price tag around $1500 or so give or take $100 if this is the case they will controle the bullpup market. I paid $1900 for my FS2000 and it was a piece of crap so as long as they don't perm atatch the flash hider or skimp on quality they will have the best bullpup on the market so far. I have had an AUG and an FS2000 the FS is built like a cheap toy and the AUG is too complicated for what it is, if CD does this right they will have a real cash cow. The AUG is complicated?? Yeah...this had me scratching my head, too. I'm curious, what makes the Tavor such a wonder weapon? Is it because it's Israeli? Has it been through some incredible battery of tests that every other weapon failed? Or is it mostly the allure and belief that it will somehow be "better" because it's been forbidden fruit? I'm not knocking it and will probably buy one. Hell, KBI is right up the road from where I live and the new line will mean more jobs in the area, so I want it to succeed. But is it really, quantifiably better than the other rifles that have been mentioned? I remember the Galil and how it was supposed to be the next great thing and it turned out to be largely a dud due to a variety of issues. 1. Bullpup allure 2. Israeli allure 3. "we can't get it here" allure Peopel will give you the whole "it's battle tested", "Israel is a desert so it must be good in the desert", "Israeli trooops are badasses" mumbo jumbo, but it there really is very little proof or first hand info of how well if functions or operates. Honestly, the only firsthand reports of how well the rifle works is from Canadian gun owners who have them. What I have heard is generally positive with a few design quirks (sling mounting options suck from what a couple of guys have said) but other than being short, foreign, and different, I don't think it is going to do anything much beyond a Steyr Aug or an AR-15. For whatever reason, assault rifle owners have a real hard on for anything Isreali, kind of like the all things HK. |
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The Tavor is going to cost...... A lot. When I was at Barrett, we tried like crazy to deal with the Israelis on on a price and they were unflinching on what they wanted. So if you want one of these, be prepared to pay to pay through the nose. The Izzys believe Americans with guns have lots of cash to throw at our hobby and want a deep cut of it.
That is the short and sweet of it. Sorry. |
14.5 option and the 18 inch option as someone previously mentioned in the main tavor post all of the balistics data has already been done with the 14.5 inch (ctar) barrel and the 18 inch barrel (tar) so why try to reinvent the wheel? Just go with what iwi has already done the work on for those of you that must have the ablity to change flash hiders buy the 18 and then cut it down to 16, we can own suppresors in washington state via trust route the thing is that if suppresor owners in washington state get caught shooting their weapon with their suppresor attached its 1 gross misdemeanor for every pull of the trigger with the device attached even though its legal to own its not legal to use , so having the option to change flash hiders to make it suppresor ready isnt to big of a deal for those of us in washington state for those in non commie states it uses an m16 flash hider the gemtec's fit over it, so i vote for the 14.5 and the 18 inch barrel option  side note they wont be coming from iwi , charles daily is going to be making them here to avoid the import restrictions
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1. Bullpup allure 2. Israeli allure 3. "we can't get it here" allure Peopel will give you the whole "it's battle tested", "Israel is a desert so it must be good in the desert", "Israeli trooops are badasses" mumbo jumbo, but it there really is very little proof or first hand info of how well if functions or operates. Honestly, the only firsthand reports of how well the rifle works is from Canadian gun owners who have them. What I have heard is generally positive with a few design quirks (sling mounting options suck from what a couple of guys have said) but other than being short, foreign, and different, I don't think it is going to do anything much beyond a Steyr Aug or an AR-15. For whatever reason, assault rifle owners have a real hard on for anything Isreali, kind of like the all things HK. The fact that the Izzy Special Forces ordered up the CTAR after testing the TAR tells me everything I need to know about the Tavor's reliability. Will it be a 5.56 Excalibur? Probably not. I don't think IWI did much tropical or Arctic testing. The IWI mystique comes from the Israeli victories. Everyone likes a winner and want a piece of that magic to rub off on them. |
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The Israelis are going to want licsencing. That is going to cost whoever is going to produce it here a pretty penny. I would love one. I fired the select fire model when the Israelis brought it to Barrett. It handles amazingly well. Mr. K has a good relationship with IWI and the absence of a price jump on the new railed Jericho 941's vs the older non-railed ones indicates that IWI may be getting a clue on the concept of competitive pricing. Maybe. |
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Barrett had a good rapor with the Israelis also as we had built them over 500 M82A1's and furnished them training. When it came down to brass tacks and buying something from them, their true colors showed.
I wouldn't expect this rifle to MSRP to us for less than $15-1600 less optics. I'll stick with an AUG clone. I like the way the Tavor handled, don't get me wrong. I really liked it. I just know what it was going to cost to produce it. |
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Barrett had a good rapor with the Israelis also as we had built them over 500 M82A1's and furnished them training. When it came down to brass tacks and buying something from them, their true colors showed. I wouldn't expect this rifle to MSRP to us for less than $15-1600 less optics. I'll stick with an AUG clone. I like the way the Tavor handled, don't get me wrong. I really liked it. I just know what it was going to cost to produce it. $1500 to $1600 would be fine for MSRP. I think most folks here would be ok with that number. They know it has to be competitively priced with other 5.56/.223 bullpup rifles. It's not going to cost much more than the FS2000 or AUG A3 and if they're smart slightly less than those two. If they just slap some stupid MSPR on this sucker a lot of folks here will not touch it out of principle. I like rifles, but I"m not going to be a sucker and pay out the rear for another .223/5.56 bullpup when I've got other options. Back when they were looking to bring it out through Barrett I don't believe they would have had that much competition, but it's a different world today. STG 556 STG 556E4 AUG A3 FS2000 RFB (in 7.62) A lot of nice bullpups out there already. |
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I think $2000 is fine , heck i payed that for my fs2000 , the rfb i just added and for the 2 stg-556 rifles i bought when they first came out ( that i`m giving away as gifts thanks to msar devaluing there entire product line ) and replacing with A3`s .
you gotta pay to play 
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I think $2000 is fine , heck i payed that for my fs2000 , the rfb i just added and for the 2 stg-556 rifles i bought when they first came out ( that i`m giving away as gifts thanks to msar devaluing there entire product line ) and replacing with A3`s . you gotta pay to play That might be true, but you need to have enough willing players to cover the costs. Price it in the crazysphere and you'll see your investment in the tooling and parts play Titanic under Captain Smith... |
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Barrett had a good rapor with the Israelis also as we had built them over 500 M82A1's and furnished them training. When it came down to brass tacks and buying something from them, their true colors showed. I wouldn't expect this rifle to MSRP to us for less than $15-1600 less optics. I'll stick with an AUG clone. I like the way the Tavor handled, don't get me wrong. I really liked it. I just know what it was going to cost to produce it. $1500 to $1600 would be fine for MSRP. I think most folks here would be ok with that number. They know it has to be competitively priced with other 5.56/.223 bullpup rifles. It's not going to cost much more than the FS2000 or AUG A3 and if they're smart slightly less than those two. If they just slap some stupid MSPR on this sucker a lot of folks here will not touch it out of principle. I like rifles, but I"m not going to be a sucker and pay out the rear for another .223/5.56 bullpup when I've got other options. Back when they were looking to bring it out through Barrett I don't believe they would have had that much competition, but it's a different world today. STG 556 STG 556E4 AUG A3 FS2000 RFB (in 7.62) A lot of nice bullpups out there already. A year ago the market may have supported an $1800 to $2000 MSRP, but i can tell you for a fact MSAR did not drop the price of their rifles over $500 just for the heck of it. I agree with Silent Type that $1500 to $1600 is the market price point, at least in this economy. |
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Over $1500.00 and I most likely won't buy. The competition is good and they are going to have to
compete with MSAR, FN, and Steyr for business. Add to that the fact that most people are now a hell of a lot tighter with their money, and competitive pricing becomes absolutely necessary to move inventory. I do love the design of the Tavor and want one badly, but I will not pay through the nose when there are other good options for far less for 5.56 bullpups. |
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Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't the 14.9" w/ perm flash hider either need just shy of an extra inch on the butt-end or on the flash hider to not be a short barrel rifle? The sources I've seen on the CTAR show its overall length at 640mm or 25.2", 0.8" under the required 26" OAL to not be an SBR. Seems to me the same would be true for a 16" barrel version as well.
If so, I'd have to go with the original 18" of the TAR with the 14.9" barrel available for those wanting to put it on a Form 1. |
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Unless I'm missing something, wouldn't the 14.9" w/ perm flash hider either need just shy of an extra inch on the butt-end or on the flash hider to not be a short barrel rifle? The sources I've seen on the CTAR show its overall length at 640mm or 25.2", 0.8" under the required 26" OAL to not be an SBR. Seems to me the same would be true for a 16" barrel version as well. If so, I'd have to go with the original 18" of the TAR with the 14.9" barrel available for those wanting to put it on a Form 1. Correct. The 14.9 isn't do-able with current over all length laws without a permanently fixed custom extra long flash hider. Even then, you are only saving around 1.5 inch over the 18 inch rifle. |
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The 14.9 isn't do-able with current over all length laws without a permanently fixed custom extra long flash hider. Even then, you are only saving around 1.5 inch over the 18 inch rifle. And the 16"? Seems to me that wouldn't be doable either unless it was permanent flash hider. |
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