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5.45x39 Load Development (Page 4 of 4)
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I and others found that the .222 & .223/5.56 cases would bulge down towards the base due to the base being undersized. Obviously, this isn’t doing anything for case life. But 10-15 years ago, it’s all we had. I experimented with .223/5.56 cases for the same reason you are. I would recommend that you keep the loads towards the lighter end for this reason. I *think* I was using like 16 grs of IMR-4198 and it cycled in everything I tried it in. I think I might’ve actually posted my load earlier in this thread. Anyway, you can indeed make shootable ammunition from those cases. But with their limitations, whether or not it’s worth the effort, is really the question. I think that 350 legend cases are probably a better candidate-being closer in head size. After all, it was close enough that Hornady actually started loading brass 5.45x39 because of it. That said, I haven’t gotten around to completing a batch of those yet. I have converted .223 cases to 7.62x25 and had decent success with them. Makes a good thing to do with cases that have neck damage. |
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Originally Posted By mace2364: I and others found that the .222 & .223/5.56 cases would bulge down towards the base due to the base being undersized. Obviously, this isn’t doing anything for case life. But 10-15 years ago, it’s all we had. I experimented with .223/5.56 cases for the same reason you are. I would recommend that you keep the loads towards the lighter end for this reason. I *think* I was using like 16 grs of IMR-4198 and it cycled in everything I tried it in. I think I might’ve actually posted my load earlier in this thread. Anyway, you can indeed make shootable ammunition from those cases. But with their limitations, whether or not it’s worth the effort, is really the question. I think that 350 legend cases are probably a better candidate-being closer in head size. After all, it was close enough that Hornady actually started loading brass 5.45x39 because of it. That said, I haven’t gotten around to completing a batch of those yet. I have converted .223 cases to 7.62x25 and had decent success with them. Makes a good thing to do with cases that have neck damage. Thanks for sharing. Your mention of cutting .223 cases down to make Tokarev cases is helpful, since I have a Tokarev cutting jig that I haven’t tried using yet. And from my experience with 300 Blackout, I have a box of cases with goobered-up mouths ready to be converted. Now, a progress note. I ran into an issue last week when I had a chance to start converting cases. I pulled my cut-off saw out of storage and started cleaning it up. It wasn’t going badly until I decided to put a fresh blade on it. The Phillips head of the screw holding the blade on stripped out. Badly. I took that saw apart to get a better angle at the screw. I messed the screw head up more trying to make it budge, then put some Kroil on it and let it sit. Several days later it was still stuck, so I went to Harbor Freight and bought another saw. In the period since I bought my original saw, HF has added an automatic blade guard to the design. They also switched from a Phillips-head, really soft M4x.7mm screw to a black oxide treated M4x.7mm (12mm long) hex socket cap screw. Good move! The first thing I did after unpacking the new saw was to take out the blade screw, coat it with Molybdenum Disulfide Lithium grease to prevent it from seizing, then put it back together. Today I put the 300 Blackout cutting jig I planned to use to cut down brass onto the saw. Hard stop…if I move the jig far enough back to cut a case to a minimal length, the saw runs into the jig’s “entrance” end and won’t go all the way down. This jig has quite a bit of material behind where the case sits, so the interference is not with any part that’s actually holding the case. So… I just ordered a 300 HAM’R jig. 300 HAM’R’s case length is about 40mm, so the jig should let me set the cut longer without having to back it out as far. On a more positive note, it looks like I can use the same annealing technique, and the same deep-well socket to hold the cases. I have gas to do the annealing with, so I feel that I’m just waiting for the right cutting jig to get started. Finally, if I can get the old saw put back together (the pivot and spring will likely be a bear), I will probably set it up permanently with the Blackout jig, and keep the new one for other uses. |
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I found that my 300 Blackout cutting jig was not a good choice for 5.45, so I ordered a jig for 300 HAM'R, which is really close to the same length as 5.45. I got it in the mail yesterday, and I have installed it on my new (long story) Harbor Freight mini miter saw. I'm working on how to mount the end of my shop vac hose so I don't have brass chips go everywhere - I feel like I'm close with that but I need to play with it some. Not really overthinking, but more like smoothing out a process: I'm working out how to support my electric screwdriver while it turns cases in the propane flame to anneal them. I'll probably build something from scrap lumber that lets me keep the screwdriver in the right place for every case. I want to be able to concentrate on seeing the Tempilaq rather than am I holding the screwdriver right, is it in the flame right, am I holding my tongue right, etc. For clarification, I use the "spin the case in a torch flame using an electric screwdriver until the Tempilaq changes color" method of annealing (boy do I need a better name for this process). I did a quick check for fit, and a 5.45 case's shoulder is higher in a deep well 10mm socket than where a 300 Blackout shoulder would be, but that should only mean that I keep the torch flame farther from the end of the socket. Also, when I get around to annealing cases may depend on the weather here. It's been kind of hot, but with all the excessive rain we've had over the past couple of weeks, it's pretty humid too. So outside may not be a good choice, and working in the garage may require a LOT more light so I can see the Tempilaq change. We'll see. |
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Originally Posted By dryflash3: I just watch the flame/case out of the corner of my eye while watching the Templaq. I haven't done this enough times, or recently enough that I feel confident with catching the color change, so I want to be attentive without heating up the socket instead of the case. I'm probably overthinking, but also I'm trying to keep from wearing out my already worn out shoulders. |
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I’ve finally set up my saw and jig, and added the extra parts that will allow me to cut 5.56mm cases without making a huge mess. At first, I had attached the crevice tool from my small shop vac to the mount for my saw. Unfortunately this didn’t really work - the vacuum worked great, but the tool and hose were too much in the way.   I though about messing around with PVC pipe and fittings to attach the vacuum, but then I came across a “computer cleaning vacuum attachment kit” I had from long ago. It has a small diameter hose that attaches to the vacuum’s hose with an adapter. Perfect! With this in place, there are few chips to deal with. Since the adapter has an adjustment that limits vacuum power (either a large or not so large bleed hole in the adapter), it isn’t as powerful at the saw end as I want, but I’ll just cover the bleed hole and vacuum up more chips.  Here’s a steel 5.45x39 case next to one of the cases I cut as a test. The cut isn’t exactly “precise” or even “clean” but that’s not a real problem.  I was concerned that cutting the shoulder itself would not allow me to see inside so it would be hard to watch for the Tempilaq to change, but it seems to not be a big problem.  Finally, yes that IS a piece of downspout. It’s a plastic 45 degree elbow that’s clamped onto the saw base. Since the Zep cutting jig can shoot the cut case out pretty forcefully, I needed something to direct the cut cases into a bin to collect them - without the cases flying all over the room. This was a BIG problem when I was converting cases to 300 Blackout, so I put quite a bit of effort into working that out. The red bin has a bin barrier AND is set at an angle AND is lined with bubble wrap to keep the cases from bouncing out when they hit. Yeah, they do have plenty of speed when they’re ejected.  Note: the Zep jig uses a spring loaded ball bearing to index the case at the extractor groove. When it’s displaced by the next case, that spring pushes the ball into the space under the rim. If you push the next case in with any force, it’ll push the cut case forward and the ball will propel the cut case out. |
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I use the Hornady headspace comparator. It takes a little math to figure out the proper datum length (CIP, the standards organization for Europe, specifies headspace data differently from SAAMI), but it works great. No, I don’t have my data available at the moment, but I’ll look it up and post it sometime soon. |
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: I use the Hornady headspace comparator. It takes a little math to figure out the proper datum length (CIP, the standards organization for Europe, specifies headspace data differently from SAAMI), but it works great. No, I don’t have my data available at the moment, but I’ll look it up and post it sometime soon. Thank you. Lack of gauges is all that holds me back on this caliber. |
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I just found out that Giraud makes a shell holder for 5.45x39. It’s not (as of this moment) in their store’s drop down menu of cartridges for ordering shell holders, but per emails with them, that’s an oversight, and they’re going to have that added very soon. So once it’s there, I’ll order the shell holder and a new cutter (I have multiple cutters so I don’t have to mess around with adjusting them). I anticipate that things are kind of chaotic at Giraud Tool at the moment, as their founder, Doug Giraud, recently passed away. It’s a big loss for all of us, but the company is still in operation. |
Global Warming Hoax Skeptic before it was cool
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Originally Posted By GHPorter: I just found out that Giraud makes a shell holder for 5.45x39. It's not (as of this moment) in their store's drop down menu of cartridges for ordering shell holders, but per emails with them, that's an oversight, and they're going to have that added very soon. So once it's there, I'll order the shell holder and a new cutter (I have multiple cutters so I don't have to mess around with adjusting them). I anticipate that things are kind of chaotic at Giraud Tool at the moment, as their founder, Doug Giraud, recently passed away. It's a big loss for all of us, but the company is still in operation. Still sad about Doug though. |
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5.45x39 Load Development (Page 4 of 4)
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