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Posted: 8/15/2017 9:11:20 PM EDT
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Been using the same scale since I have gotten into reloading, an old Ohaus 10-10. Scale is accurate, calibrates accurately.
However, when trickling charges, it doesn't indicate as precisely as I would expect. I have to trickle to about .1gr low, pull the pan, and then put the pan back on and let it settle again. Often times it ends up .1-.2gr high, so I start over again. This means that each load takes anywhere from 1-3 minutes to get it right, and I am always questioning the consistency of my loads. I'm thinking it's time to move into something newer. Looking at the possibility of either a digital scale (either Hornady or RCBS) or a powder thrower/scale combo (again, Hornady or RCBS). Looking for opinions on both options, as well as pitfalls of each option. |
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Most people complain about the accuracy of digital scales and their drift. They usually recommend what you already have.
As far as digital scales, I really like my Gempro 250. It has been spot on. Think I got it for $125. If you go up to around $500, there are lab grade scales that are more reliable and better. |
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I own a 10-10, 5-0-5 and the "best value digital scale " from amazon (about $15). I also have an rcbs trickler.
My opinion if you want to trickle charges with some form of speed, get one of the combo trickler scale machines. You will pull your hair out trying to trickle onto a digital scale. Otherwise get a higher quality powder drop. Opinions run the board on which one is best. My internet two cents... |
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Just to add my experience with a couple digital scales. I have a RCBS 5-10 that's been in a drawer since 1994. I've had a Pact Precision since they were the first to introduce electronic scales for the reloading market. It's been accurate and reliable. Only problem was I left it uncovered and kittens climbing on my table damaged it. Sent it back for repair and no issues since. It weighs perfectly, trickles very well, and only drift has been in the winter when temperatures in the house fluctuates. When it does "rarely" drift a simple tare button and it's good to go. No issues with drift, fluorescent lights, or anything else.
I bought a Gempro 250 just because of the high recommendations and it reads to the second decimal. It is extremely accurate. My Pact if you trickle until the number just changes it is dead on with the Gempro. I do not recommend the Gempro for everyday loading such as when you're weighing or trickling every charge. The Gempro 250, at least mine, doesn't trickle worth a hoot. You start the trickle and the numbers won't change, then it jumps past what you want. It is extremely slow in updating the weight when trickling. If you tend to weigh every charge it's slow and tedious but again extremely accurate. The display is flat so you have to be at least slightly above the scale to read the display. I wouldn't want to load again with a balance beam scale and keep mine just in case the electricity goes out. You can quickly weigh bullets, cases, or loaded rounds with a digital. I can only recommend the Pact Precision but the Hornady and RCBS top of the line units get good reviews. Buy the best in their line, not the cheapest. |
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Checked the pivots, made sure they are clean. Checked the blades, and used a fine stone on the same angle just to make sure that they weren't dinged up at all or dull.
Ran a test. Leveled the scale, then leveled with the calibration weight (250gr.) Set the weight to 1 gr. Trickled in until it indicated 1 gr. Pulled the pan off, and put it back on, was consistently high. Repeated, but instead trickled to .2 gr. low, then pulled the pan and put it back on, was just about perfect. Repeated about 15 times, same result each time. So if I trickle, I just need to trickle it to about .2 gr. low each time. |
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If your environment is relatively RF noise free, the GemPro can be made to trickle by adding a kernel then tapping the scale. This forces the scale to ignore its programming that wants to hold the current reading and ignore small changes (sort of an anti-flutter hack). But if your environment is noisy or if the little noise you have gets to the scale, it can drive you nuts like mine did. Adding a lab grade power supply did not solve the problem.
That's just the experience you will see reported in forum after forum. Some will say their GemPro is reliable all the time, some felt forced to move on. Most often it depends on your environment, your budget and your goals for precision in powder charges. When using "well-metering" powders, (my) Pact and (my) Chargemaster results were no more consistent than a good powder measure. With some short stick powders and all longer stick powders, they provided more consistent results than a powder measure only because the PM performed worse with those powders. The problem is the technology used for "low-cost" digital scales, and all scales under ~$550 use the same basic tech. So for less than $550, the ~$130 GemPro is the one most likely to satisfy you. At $550-$595, the A&D FX120i (reports to 0.02gr, doesn't flutter, rarely loses zero) will certainly satisfy you if acceptable to your budget. And there is an excellent Autotrickler on the market to turn it into an accurate Chargemaster. After going through 7 scales, that's my experience and so I use the A&D scale and the Autotrickler. YMMV. |
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I have had good luck with the American Weigh Scales ZEO-50 I bought on Amazon.
Others have reported spotty QC and issues, but mine has worked beautifully. I initially throw the charge with the Chargemaster to tenths, then put it on the little scale. I have to use a tiny pair of tweezers to pull out a smaller grain of RE22 to get it to register a .02 grain difference. I can choose to pull out a longer grain or a shorter grain of RE22 to get in my tolerance. With RE22 I'll have a weight tolerance of 75.48 to 75.52 grains pretty reliably. Beyond +/- .02 grains I'm just being silly. |
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Quoted:
Been using the same scale since I have gotten into reloading, an old Ohaus 10-10. Scale is accurate, calibrates accurately. However, when trickling charges, it doesn't indicate as precisely as I would expect. I have to trickle to about .1gr low, pull the pan, and then put the pan back on and let it settle again. Often times it ends up .1-.2gr high, so I start over again. This means that each load takes anywhere from 1-3 minutes to get it right, and I am always questioning the consistency of my loads. Quoted:
Checked the pivots, made sure they are clean. Checked the blades, and used a fine stone on the same angle just to make sure that they weren't dinged up at all or dull. Ran a test. Leveled the scale, then leveled with the calibration weight (250gr.) Set the weight to 1 gr. Trickled in until it indicated 1 gr. Pulled the pan off, and put it back on, was consistently high. Repeated, but instead trickled to .2 gr. low, then pulled the pan and put it back on, was just about perfect. Repeated about 15 times, same result each time. So if I trickle, I just need to trickle it to about .2 gr. low each time. This is why they use jeweled pivot points in watches and clocks - to reduce frictional forces. I have an antique analytical balance. It has what jewels for its pivot points (I believe they are ruby). The thing is the coefficient of static friction is about 2X the friction after the surfaces start moving. Tap your scale to get it moving, to free it up, then trickle and it will settle to the new value. |
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Quoted:
Do some Googling on tuned scales. You will see that Scott Parker guy come up. There are plenty of YouTube videos of guys with video screens hooked up to their balance scale showing them registering one kernel of Varget. |
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Quoted:
If your environment is relatively RF noise free, the GemPro can be made to trickle by adding a kernel then tapping the scale. This forces the scale to ignore its programming that wants to hold the current reading and ignore small changes (sort of an anti-flutter hack). But if your environment is noisy or if the little noise you have gets to the scale, it can drive you nuts like mine did. Adding a lab grade power supply did not solve the problem. That's just the experience you will see reported in forum after forum. Some will say their GemPro is reliable all the time, some felt forced to move on. Most often it depends on your environment, your budget and your goals for precision in powder charges. When using "well-metering" powders, (my) Pact and (my) Chargemaster results were no more consistent than a good powder measure. With some short stick powders and all longer stick powders, they provided more consistent results than a powder measure only because the PM performed worse with those powders. The problem is the technology used for "low-cost" digital scales, and all scales under ~$550 use the same basic tech. So for less than $550, the ~$130 GemPro is the one most likely to satisfy you. At $550-$595, the A&D FX120i (reports to 0.02gr, doesn't flutter, rarely loses zero) will certainly satisfy you if acceptable to your budget. And there is an excellent Autotrickler on the market to turn it into an accurate Chargemaster. After going through 7 scales, that's my experience and so I use the A&D scale and the Autotrickler. YMMV. |
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Quoted:
What auto trickler are you using? The scale is the key to precision and repeatability; it doesn't "flutter" and rarely loses zero. Any trickler can be used, following the procedure you would use to "throw low and trickle up" on your current scale. The other devices greatly reduce the time it takes as well as your involvement in the process. With both devices it's not possible for me to seat, measure, and reseat a bullet as/if needed before the next charge is ready. |
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Quoted:
This is caused by friction. All beam scales have friction. Dust and dirt will exacerbate it but you cannot get rid of it. This is why they use jeweled pivot points in watches and clocks - to reduce frictional forces. I have an antique analytical balance. It has what jewels for its pivot points (I believe they are ruby). The thing is the coefficient of static friction is about 2X the friction after the surfaces start moving. Tap your scale to get it moving, to free it up, then trickle and it will settle to the new value. |
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