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Posted: 10/16/2016 7:42:15 PM EDT
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I am new to reloading and casting.
I have done 300 blackout so far with no issues. With 300 blk i deprime, dry tumble, resize with lube, use a 3 way trimmer. Then with my cast .311 bullets i use a .30 m die to expand the neck of the case a bit. Question is how is 9mm done? I have a Lee Precision 9-mm Carbide 4-Die Set. So far I have deprimed and tumbled. I read somewhere 9mm does not need lube to resize? I guess i have to debur and chafer what is the easiest way to do that? Also do i need a special lyman m type die for loading the powder coating cast .357 sized 9mm bullets without stripping off any coating? Or do you just flare the case with the expanding die? |
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No need to trim or chamfer-deburr 9MM cases. The carbide sizing die for straight walled pistol cases requires no lube. No experience with coated bullets but your expander die in 9MM will when properly adjusted will flare
the case mouth and will not shave lead or coatings. You set the expander die to flare the case mouth just enough that a bullet will sit in the neck without falling out. Not too much though. You buy a 9MM die set that has the taper crimp seater die. The taper crimp turns the flare back in against the bullet. Easy to load 9MM. |
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Lol.  i should have included i reload on a lee turret press
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pour once fired into dry tumbler come back 30mins later sift with sift thingy pour brass into Dillon XL650 add primers and powder to XL650 crank and place bullet repeat 500 times win. Lol. i should have included i reload on a lee turret press
Similar steps. Tumble Resize, decap, (turn turret to flaring die) flare case mouth. Prime (I use an RCBS hand priming tool) charge (I use a Lee dipper, but you can charge the powder how every works best for you) Seat bullet/remove flare/crimp. (crimp can be done on separate die) |
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These guys covered it well.
Personally I don't use the pistol FCD (factory crimp die) with cast bullets. The pistol FCD has a carbide post sizing ring in it much like the sizing die has. The purpose of this ring is to ensure that any round that passes through it will chamber in a minimum spec chamber. Sometimes the extra size of a cast bullet swells the round enough that the FCD sizes it. The problem is that when this happens the bullet is made smaller within the casing. The bullet being lead does not have much if any rebound or spring back.However the brass does. So if this sizing down occurs it effectively reduces your neck tension to nearly zero. So if you are going to use the FCD with your cast loads be sure to check them and get a feel for how much contact they are making with the post sizing ring. Motor |
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Quoted:.....i should have included i reload on a lee turret press
I was kidding a little 
I would dry tumble, without bothering to de-cap. then de-cap/resize drop power seat crimp pistol is much much easier to handload than rifle. most folks don't straight wall pistol cases. 
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Lubing is not necessary, but I find that the press just runs smoother if the cases have had a spray of One Shot. Came to post this. A one (1) second spray of OneShot on a box of 100 cleaned 9mm cases is all it takes; just shake the box, let them dry for 2 min and you are ready to load with carbide dies. Just leave it on the loaded ammo. Does not cause any problem. |
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Came to post this. A one (1) second spray of OneShot on a box of 100 cleaned 9mm cases is all it takes; just shake the box, let them dry for 2 min and you are ready to load with carbide dies. Just leave it on the loaded ammo. Does not cause any problem. Quoted:
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Lubing is not necessary, but I find that the press just runs smoother if the cases have had a spray of One Shot. Came to post this. A one (1) second spray of OneShot on a box of 100 cleaned 9mm cases is all it takes; just shake the box, let them dry for 2 min and you are ready to load with carbide dies. Just leave it on the loaded ammo. Does not cause any problem. Absolutely correct. I load on Hornady LnL AP, use Lee 4-die sets, and a light coat of One Shot smooths out operation dramatically. Usually cover a cookie sheet with cases, shake the One Shot vigorously, then a light coat and dump brass into a plastic shoe box. Will tumble off One Shot in fine ground walnut, but it's not necessary. |
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pour once fired into dry tumbler come back 30mins later sift with sift thingy pour brass into Dillon XL650 add primers and powder to XL650 crank and place bullet repeat 500 times win. You need to sort out any cases that have crimped primers, or you will crush primers while seating. I think it is S & B cases that have very small and square primer pockets that give me difficulty. I use Winchester primers. The Lee Factory Crimp die is highly recommended for 9mm. |
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You need to sort out any cases that have crimped primers, or you will crush primers while seating. I think it is S & B cases that have very small and square primer pockets that give me difficulty. I use Winchester primers. The Lee Factory Crimp die is highly recommended for 9mm. Ok i got mixed advice. One says to not use FCD with cast and another says it is recommended? Who oh s right with cast bullets sized to .357? |
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Ok i got mixed advice. One says to not use FCD with cast and another says it is recommended? Who oh s right with cast bullets sized to .357? Quoted:
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You need to sort out any cases that have crimped primers, or you will crush primers while seating. I think it is S & B cases that have very small and square primer pockets that give me difficulty. I use Winchester primers. The Lee Factory Crimp die is highly recommended for 9mm. Ok i got mixed advice. One says to not use FCD with cast and another says it is recommended? Who oh s right with cast bullets sized to .357? Read the instructions that come with your dies. Experiment with the bullets you are using. Make your own decision. |
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I said to measure before and after and to check your neck tension if you are going use the FCD.
I didn't say not to use it. Just trying to inform you of the possibilities. I'm guessing that the post recommending it didn't see that you were loading cast bullets. Motor |
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I said to measure before and after and to check your neck tension if you are going use the FCD. I didn't say not to use it. Just trying to inform you of the possibilities. I'm guessing that the post recommending it didn't see that you were loading cast bullets. Motor Measure the diameter at the neck before and after? |
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Yes measure the casing diameter where the bullet is inside the neck. Then run the round in and out of the FCD and measure it again.
You don't want the FCD to be making it smaller. Remember different thicknesses of brass can effect this diameter too. It's just something you need to keep tabs on. Motor |
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Opinions are like necks everyone has one.
I use Hornady one shot lube on all my pistol cases. I can even tell a difference when loading 9mm on the 1050. Not required with carbide dies. but in my experience it does make the process smoother and lead to more consistent OAL. Not a fan of the FCD. If you crimp too much with this die, it will resize the bullet to a small diameter and lead to a loss of accuracy. The 9mm does not need a heavy crimp. Just enough to crimp to remove the bell on the brass . No special expansion die needed to cast bullets. Flare just enough to the coating on the bullet is not broken. |
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You need to sort out any cases that have crimped primers, or you will crush primers while seating. I think it is S & B cases that have very small and square primer pockets that give me difficulty. Hopefully this is not a hijack... I have a bunch of S&B 9mm that I am about to reload. Are these crimped in a similar way to military ammo for the 5.56? Swaged the same way? |
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Hopefully this is not a hijack... I have a bunch of S&B 9mm that I am about to reload. Are these crimped in a similar way to military ammo for the 5.56? Swaged the same way? Quoted:
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You need to sort out any cases that have crimped primers, or you will crush primers while seating. I think it is S & B cases that have very small and square primer pockets that give me difficulty. Hopefully this is not a hijack... I have a bunch of S&B 9mm that I am about to reload. Are these crimped in a similar way to military ammo for the 5.56? Swaged the same way? They are actuay NOT crimped at all. They do, however give reloaders problems: here is why: S&B actually machines the primer pockets on their 9mm brass - as in the pocket is cut into the brass. It leaves a sharp shoulder on the pocket which can catch the edge of a primer. It can be a real issue. Some people hate this brass. It is actually high quality brass; I use it for +p+ loads. The primer pocket on U.S. made brass is formed by swaging the pocket into shape. The corners on the pocket tend to be rounded (unless the manufacturer later adds a crimp; be on the lookout for the headstamp "WCC" as I find those are often crimped). |
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I'm ocd so I sort my brass by headstamp. Save the nato brass for +p, the soft brass (ATK, Win) for low velocity coated lead match loads, and the others for middle of the road stuff.
For larger diameter 9mm bullets, I've done .357 and .358, I find that chamfering the case mouth is generally required to avoid shaving. .355 and .356 will generally work just fine with just a little extra flair. Fast powder can still cut through the coating and cause leading so you may as well accept the fact that you are going to get good at scrubbing the barrel once in awhile. Brass cloth wrapped around an undersized cleaning brush and run through dry works great. Toss the Amerc, ammoload, IMT, FM crap. Nato/crimped has to be separated or you're going to smash primers and I've heard stories of people detonating them but it has not happened to me. |
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The most important step in reloading coated bullets in pistol cases/calibers is the expander ball and the flaring stage in reloading. It's the "BASE" of the bullet that you should be concerned with.
A picture of a lyman m-die style expander. 
As you can see it has a step in the top of the flaring ball. That small step opens the case mouth to aid in the bullet starting straight when it's being seated. The secondary thing that step/shelf does is stop the edge of the case from scraping off the coating. The expanding ball is also longer than traditional expanders so that it expands the case where the base of the bullet is. This is a good thing because typically the base of the lead bullet will get swaged down with standard expanders/factory reloading dies. That's why they make cowboy action dies (lead bullets) and m-dies (lead bullets). When you reload cast/lead/lubed/pc'd bullets they are typically larger in diameter than their jacketed bullet counterparts. They are generally longer in body also. The end result is that the factory expanders are designed for the smaller/shorter jacketed bullets and expand the cases accordingly to kepp neck tension on those said smaller (diameter)/shorter bullets. A picture of a factory lee 9mm expander next to a custom home made expander. The home made expander is nothing more than a m-die style expander. 
Anyway you are trying to stuff a .357 bullet in a case that was designed to tightly hold a .355 bullet. Buuuuttttt a standard 38spl/357 die set is designed to hold a jacketed .357 bullet
Do yourself a huge favor and get the correct expander for the bullet size your reloading. The 2 main things I do when reloading bullets designed for a taper crimp: Seat the bullet in 1 stage Crimp in another stage. That takes all the difference in case thickness/brass hardness out of play and keeps the oal's a lot more consistent. Personally I don't use the lee fld's. I've tested them and found the only time they work is when the bullet didn't start/seat straight in the case. Using the correct expander eliminated that issue. The only time I ever felt any resistance with them after I started using the correct expander was when I loaded a case that was bulged. I use range brass and cull any bulged cases but that doesn't mean that other people did the same thing and reloaded them. The bulge in the cases tends to weaken them and they will collapse in that area if they are weak enough when seating the bullets in them. I'm not picking on glocks!!!! Note the round firing pin hit. Some 9mm cases that were bulged. I resized them and took a good look at them to try to find any distinguishing/tell tail marking on them. I no longer reload any range pickups that have the worn ring at the web area of the cases. That ring tells me that the cases have either been reloaded a bunch of times or had a bulge removed. 
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The most important step in reloading coated bullets in pistol cases/calibers is the expander ball and the flaring stage in reloading. It's the "BASE" of the bullet that you should be concerned with. A picture of a lyman m-die style expander. <a href="http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/expander9mmdepth_zpse6fc7qfk.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/expander9mmdepth_zpse6fc7qfk.jpg</a> As you can see it has a step in the top of the flaring ball. That small step opens the case mouth to aid in the bullet starting straight when it's being seated. The secondary thing that step/shelf does is stop the edge of the case from scraping off the coating. The expanding ball is also longer than traditional expanders so that it expands the case where the base of the bullet is. This is a good thing because typically the base of the lead bullet will get swaged down with standard expanders/factory reloading dies. That's why they make cowboy action dies (lead bullets) and m-dies (lead bullets). When you reload cast/lead/lubed/pc'd bullets they are typically larger in diameter than their jacketed bullet counterparts. They are generally longer in body also. The end result is that the factory expanders are designed for the smaller/shorter jacketed bullets and expand the cases accordingly to kepp neck tension on those said smaller (diameter)/shorter bullets. A picture of a factory lee 9mm expander next to a custom home made expander. The home made expander is nothing more than a m-die style expander. <a href="http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/8121ce53-92ea-4a46-bdf0-b874c87f442d_zpsunjrpvqq.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/8121ce53-92ea-4a46-bdf0-b874c87f442d_zpsunjrpvqq.jpg</a> Anyway you are trying to stuff a .357 bullet in a case that was designed to tightly hold a .355 bullet. Buuuuttttt a standard 38spl/357 die set is designed to hold a jacketed .357 bullet
Do yourself a huge favor and get the correct expander for the bullet size your reloading. The 2 main things I do when reloading bullets designed for a taper crimp: Seat the bullet in 1 stage Crimp in another stage. That takes all the difference in case thickness/brass hardness out of play and keeps the oal's a lot more consistent. Personally I don't use the lee fld's. I've tested them and found the only time they work is when the bullet didn't start/seat straight in the case. Using the correct expander eliminated that issue. The only time I ever felt any resistance with them after I started using the correct expander was when I loaded a case that was bulged. I use range brass and cull any bulged cases but that doesn't mean that other people did the same thing and reloaded them. The bulge in the cases tends to weaken them and they will collapse in that area if they are weak enough when seating the bullets in them. I'm not picking on glocks!!!! Note the round firing pin hit. Some 9mm cases that were bulged. I resized them and took a good look at them to try to find any distinguishing/tell tail marking on them. I no longer reload any range pickups that have the worn ring at the web area of the cases. That ring tells me that the cases have either been reloaded a bunch of times or had a bulge removed. <a href="http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/e58c1b47-e2fb-4ff1-ac7f-d0ba08d38206_zpsvxyes24j.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/e58c1b47-e2fb-4ff1-ac7f-d0ba08d38206_zpsvxyes24j.jpg</a> Thanks for the write up. I know i have to use an lyman m die for my 300 blackout cast bullets. So just for reference you are suggesting this lyman m die below? Seems some of the reviews say .357 is still tight with the m die. Will it work ok? Lyman Neck Expanding "M-Inchdie (380 Auto/38 Super Auto/9Mm Luger/9X23 Win) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006N74G7C/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_jZHbyb5H2EVHP |
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The most important step in reloading coated bullets in pistol cases/calibers is the expander ball and the flaring stage in reloading. It's the "BASE" of the bullet that you should be concerned with. A picture of a lyman m-die style expander. <a href="http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/expander9mmdepth_zpse6fc7qfk.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/expander9mmdepth_zpse6fc7qfk.jpg</a> As you can see it has a step in the top of the flaring ball. That small step opens the case mouth to aid in the bullet starting straight when it's being seated. The secondary thing that step/shelf does is stop the edge of the case from scraping off the coating. The expanding ball is also longer than traditional expanders so that it expands the case where the base of the bullet is. This is a good thing because typically the base of the lead bullet will get swaged down with standard expanders/factory reloading dies. That's why they make cowboy action dies (lead bullets) and m-dies (lead bullets). Thanks for posting this! I bought M style powder funnels/expanders (550B) for 9/40/45 recently because I started loading coated lead. I have noticed that 1) there is A LOT more friction on the downstroke compared to a normal flaring funnel, and 2) it tends to shave a hair-thin brass ring off the case mouth, causing my shell plate to be noticeably covered in brass shavings after ~50rds. I think part of my issue is using wet tumbled brass that is "too clean" (I run 40SW through a push-through sizer, so the brass I was working with last night was already decapped/sized/push-through sized, and wet tumbled), but based on your diagram I think I may also have my expander die set too low, and too much of the expander is going in to the case. |
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Ok i ordered the "Lyman Neck Expanding "M-Inchdie (38 Spec/357 Mag/357 Rem Max/38 SandW)"
I read over at CB that it measures .356 and that you want your expander to be .001 smaller that your cast bullet size. I will just expand down the length that my bullet will seat in the brass and use the lee powder through die to flare the case slightly. From what I read the m die i got is to long for 9mm and i wont be c able to reach the second level that flares. |
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Ok i ordered the "Lyman Neck Expanding "M-Inchdie (38 Spec/357 Mag/357 Rem Max/38 SandW)" I read over at CB that it measures .356 and that you want your expander to be .001 smaller that your cast bullet size. I will just expand down the length that my bullet will seat in the brass and use the lee powder through die to flare the case slightly. From what I read the m die i got is to long for 9mm and i wont be c able to reach the second level that flares. Odd??? Lots of people use them with no problems on .357/.358 bullets for the 9mm. I'm sure you'll figure it out in less than 2 minutes. |
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