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Posted: 8/6/2016 8:56:02 PM EDT
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Ok, The consensus seems to be that Varget is a kickass powder for the .223 69SMK load, so I bought a pound to try. In my press, this stuff doesn't meter worth a darn. I am talking a variance of 15 grains in a 25 grain load. It will drop 2-3 good charges, then drop 10 grains. Then it will drop 30.. I know the powder is damming or getting hung up, but I have tried tapping everything with a bullet puller when I am at the top of my stroke, cleaning the powder measure, swabbing the drop tube, nothing seems to help. Searching has netted me a percentage of people with identical problems that inevitably are met with a chorus of "well, it works great in MY press" posters, but no real solution.
So, since I only own a 550 with a Dillon powder measure, and only one pound of Varget, is there a trick to getting this combination to work? Do I give up on Varget out of my Dillon? Do I just save it for .308 loads (I suspect it is the funnel where it is hanging up os maybe the larger case neck might help..) The worst part is that Varget was hard to find locally, and when I did, it was $5 a pound more than the 322 or BL-c(2) I normally use. I wouldn't really be able to stock up on it no matter what without resorting to paying even MORE by having to order it with hazmat. I just dislike the idea of being defeated by such a simple problem... |
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I gave up on varget in the dillon powder measure. It's just too coarse I feel. Others claim to have made it work, but not me. I have a cheap Lee powder measure with plastic and rubber 'wipers' that meters varget well, so I case prep on the dillon then drop powder with the lee and seat on a single stage. |
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Loading progressively with my Dillon and Varget powder was not an option for me knowing the inconsistencies that will occur with the Dillon slide bar powder measure and extruded powders.
I use IMR 8208-XBR as a satisfactory substitute since changing powders let's me keep loading progressively. It's more readily available and useally cheaper also. Save the Varget for powder drop tube SS work or try a drum type powder measurer. |
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Quoted:
Ok, The consensus seems to be that Varget is a kickass powder for the .223 69SMK load, so I bought a pound to try. In my press, this stuff doesn't meter worth a darn. I am talking a variance of 15 grains in a 25 grain load. It will drop 2-3 good charges, then drop 10 grains. Then it will drop 30.. I know the powder is damming or getting hung up, but I have tried tapping everything with a bullet puller when I am at the top of my stroke, cleaning the powder measure, swabbing the drop tube, nothing seems to help. Searching has netted me a percentage of people with identical problems that inevitably are met with a chorus of "well, it works great in MY press" posters, but no real solution. So, since I only own a 550 with a Dillon powder measure, and only one pound of Varget, is there a trick to getting this combination to work? Do I give up on Varget out of my Dillon? Do I just save it for .308 loads (I suspect it is the funnel where it is hanging up os maybe the larger case neck might help..) The worst part is that Varget was hard to find locally, and when I did, it was $5 a pound more than the 322 or BL-c(2) I normally use. I wouldn't really be able to stock up on it no matter what without resorting to paying even MORE by having to order it with hazmat. I just dislike the idea of being defeated by such a simple problem... You're absolutely correct, that kind of variance is absurd. However, it is you, your set up and/or your technique. It is neither the powder nor the measure which is at fault. I am able to throw Varget with SD = 0.14 gr using my 550B. My 550 is box-stock. No polished funnels, no buzzers, no knockers, no special anything. You can do it, too. |
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Quoted:
You're absolutely correct, that kind of variance is absurd. However, it is you, your set up and/or your technique. It is neither the powder nor the measure which is at fault. I am able to throw Varget with SD = 0.14 gr using my 550B. My 550 is box-stock. No polished funnels, no buzzers, no knockers, no special anything. You can do it, too. Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok, The consensus seems to be that Varget is a kickass powder for the .223 69SMK load, so I bought a pound to try. In my press, this stuff doesn't meter worth a darn. I am talking a variance of 15 grains in a 25 grain load. It will drop 2-3 good charges, then drop 10 grains. Then it will drop 30.. I know the powder is damming or getting hung up, but I have tried tapping everything with a bullet puller when I am at the top of my stroke, cleaning the powder measure, swabbing the drop tube, nothing seems to help. Searching has netted me a percentage of people with identical problems that inevitably are met with a chorus of "well, it works great in MY press" posters, but no real solution. So, since I only own a 550 with a Dillon powder measure, and only one pound of Varget, is there a trick to getting this combination to work? Do I give up on Varget out of my Dillon? Do I just save it for .308 loads (I suspect it is the funnel where it is hanging up os maybe the larger case neck might help..) The worst part is that Varget was hard to find locally, and when I did, it was $5 a pound more than the 322 or BL-c(2) I normally use. I wouldn't really be able to stock up on it no matter what without resorting to paying even MORE by having to order it with hazmat. I just dislike the idea of being defeated by such a simple problem... You're absolutely correct, that kind of variance is absurd. However, it is you, your set up and/or your technique. It is neither the powder nor the measure which is at fault. I am able to throw Varget with SD = 0.14 gr using my 550B. My 550 is box-stock. No polished funnels, no buzzers, no knockers, no special anything. You can do it, too. Ok, maybe let us in on the secret? Quoted:
Quoted:.... I am talking a variance of 15 grains in a 25 grain load....... VARGET does not meter as well as ball powders in a Dillon, but it's not that bad. sounds like you've got another issue to me. That variance comes from the powder bridging in the powder funnel and then dropping in the next load. I have tapped on everything I could tap on but no joy. The 15 grain variance is when it dropped 10 and the other 15 got stuck, and then came out as 40...  The only good thing is that I was still trying to set my powder measure, not load...
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Powder can bridge in any measure. In fact, when I run test loads on my 550, I use a Lee rifle charging die and a funnel.
When I first started using it, I had powder sticking and binding (even after a good cleaning). What finally solved it was running a ton of graphite through it. You can reuse the graphite so not a lot of loss. The Dillon PM is not nearly as good as the Hornady measure in terms of accuracy. That is a fact in my mind. How do I know? Well, all these people who blame your "technique" should consider this: For me, I run a Dillon on a 1050 with Overdrive. My only technique is holding down the button. My results are still no where near as good as I get with a Hornady running manually.... Of course, I only run bulk plinking ammo on the 1050 so it doesn't matter so much to me. I do stick to ball and small stick powders (8208 works well). If I could fit a Hornady PM on my Dillons, I would. However, they don't fit in the normal powder spot because of the primer tube. I haven't confirmed that on the 550 but expect it to be the same. OP, your result are even worse than what I have seen so first try the graphite. If it's binding at the case mouth, you won't find a fix. |
| Varget has never metered well for my 650. I was in the same boat as you a while back. I ended up just charging each piece of brass by hand in station 2 and never got Varget again. H335 is my go-to for .223 now, meters great. Someone else posted CFE223 and I'll second that, meters fine too. |
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And this is where a ChargeMaster is your friend. I just manually charge each round in station 2 when I am using large stick powders like Varget. Get the plastic powder funnel that Dillon sells, P/N 16617 and manually weigh each charge. I only do this on my precision rounds and not my plinking rounds. However I have to agree with others, that variance is awfully large, my experience with stick powders like Varget and the Dillon measure have a variance, but not that great. You may have another issue going on. |
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I use Varget through the Chargemaster and Ram Shot Tac in the Dillon powder measure.
I have known people to polish the inside of the Dillon powder measure to a mirror finish using a dremel tool for improved results with Varget. It can be done. Dillon also makes a conversion adapter funnel that allows you to pour the measured charges in one at a time. |
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Varget is a fine powder. That I wont dispute. But if you are going to run on a progressive and dont want to screw around, make the switch to CFE 223 or IMR 8208 XBR. Ive had great luck with both as have many others. Im not saying it wont run on a Dillon, but why pull your hair out?
The only thing I use Varget for is 308 with 168gr+ bullets. And those all get run through the single stage and I use my ChargeMaster. I also do the funnel through the top of the progressive trick with my LnL when I do load development on 223 as it saves alot of time. |
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Quoted:
VARGET does not meter as well as ball powders in a Dillon, but it's not that bad. sounds like you've got another issue to me. Quoted:
Quoted:.... I am talking a variance of 15 grains in a 25 grain load....... VARGET does not meter as well as ball powders in a Dillon, but it's not that bad. sounds like you've got another issue to me. Mine was +/- 0.2 or 0.3. Now it is +/- 0.1. I added a micrometer, polished the bowl, and I attach an aquarium pump to the powder measure. |
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Look on 1911 Forum, and seach dillon pm tweaks. There was a good tutorial on tuning up the the DPM.
Others have added a means of vibrating the powder measure to help settle the powder. When the PM was manually cycled I could hold 0.1gr plus or minus of IMR 4895. But I was consistent in the operation of the PM. I think the fail safe rod makes the PM powder bar movement herky jerky. |
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I know you want the speed of the progressive, but the tried and true RCBS Uniflow with baffle insert consistently drops the extruded powders I often use within .2 grains. That includes Varget, H4895, H4831, RL 15, 19 and 22. Unless it is a max load load, .2 grain variance is close enough for all but match ammo. For match ammo I throw .2 light and trickle up on a magnetic beam scale.
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Tip file #1: |
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Quoted:
Ok, The consensus seems to be that Varget is a kickass powder for the .223 69SMK load . . . There are far better choices of powder to use with the 69 grain SMK than Varget. The 10-shot group pictured below was fired from a semi-automatic AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards using hand-loads of the 69 grain SMK loaded on a Dillon XL-650 using VV N135 powder. The group has an extreme spread of 0.55". 
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I see 8208 come up alot as an alternative to Varget however when talking to the Hogdon folks I come away thinking Varget is still the best answer for my needs.
5.56- 62gr and 77gr 7.62- 147gr, 168gr, 175gr I have noticed that for these loads 8208 gives higher pressure with lower velocities. Not seeing that as a positive. The real positive seems to be metering. Tough decision. Toyz |
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