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5/31/2016 11:25:15 AM EDT
When I am sizing brass for a particular rifle, not all brass comes out sized the same. The gun is a Sako TRG-22 and I primarily shoot Winchester brass in it. I have my dies setup to FL resize .001" and am getting my measurements from a dial caliper with the Sinclair bump gauge. Winchester brass sizes .001"-.002" and comes out with either a dented shoulder or case body just under the shoulder. Federal comes out .004" larger than the Winchester and has no dents. The Winchester chambers with ease but the FC brass is tight.

Any ideas why there is so much variation in the sizes coming out of the same die?


ETA: I also have cleaned the die and apply a minimal amount of case lube so I don't think that's the issue.
5/31/2016 11:34:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Dents in the shoulder are caused by to much lube.  Keep the lube to a minimum and keep it off the shoulder.

Brass is an allow and as an alloy composition and hardness varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, some is to Soft, Some is to Hard and some is Just Right.

Also in the mix is times fired.

The more the brass is fired, sized and loaded the harder it gets.  The harder it gets the more it will spring back during sizing, it's called "work hardening"..

The fix for "work hardened" brass is to adjust the sizing die deeper into the press, or anneal.

5/31/2016 11:40:11 AM EDT
[#2]
I thought you fixed work hardened brass by annealing?

This is happening with 1x fired brass.
5/31/2016 11:54:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote History
Quoted:
I thought you fixed work hardened brass by annealing?

This is happening with 1x fired brass.
View Quote


Isn't that what I posted?

If you do not want to anneal, you can adjust the sizing die into the press more to allow for the increased "spring back" off work hardened brass.

If it is once fired, then it is due to alloy composition and to much lube.
5/31/2016 1:06:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Try running a case into the die and letting it set there for a few seconds and see if this gives the brass a chance to take it's form. From the setting you've adjusted to.
And maybe running it into the die a second time.
But ultimately it is work hardened brass that is springing back and could use annealing.

5/31/2016 1:31:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote History
Quoted:
I thought you fixed work hardened brass by annealing?

This is happening with 1x fired brass.
View Quote


As he stated.  Some brass is harder than others from the start, so it can become excessively work hardened in just one shooting.  You may or may not be able to address the issue by proper annealing.  Some brass alloys are only good for one or two firings, and you will never make it workable.  Basically, it was mixed with shit to save money.  All some companies are worried about is getting ammo out to the public.  They are not concerned with your desire to reload.
5/31/2016 1:59:10 PM EDT
[#6]
When resizing you have to separate brass by headstamp if you want consistency, especially with 1x fired......and even then they may come out different until they've been well fire formed.
5/31/2016 2:33:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote History
Quoted:


Isn't that what I posted?

If you do not want to anneal, you can adjust the sizing die into the press more to allow for the increased "spring back" off work hardened brass.

If it is once fired, then it is due to alloy composition and to much lube.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Quote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought you fixed work hardened brass by annealing?

This is happening with 1x fired brass.


Isn't that what I posted?

If you do not want to anneal, you can adjust the sizing die into the press more to allow for the increased "spring back" off work hardened brass.

If it is once fired, then it is due to alloy composition and to much lube.


I must have missed the annealing part. My bad.
5/31/2016 2:34:58 PM EDT
[#8]
The question remains about the dented shoulder/wall. If I am only bumping the shoulder back .001-.002 why is the case coming out with a dent. I have ruled out excess case lube.
5/31/2016 2:44:39 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote History
Quoted:
The question remains about the dented shoulder/wall. If I am only bumping the shoulder back .001-.002 why is the case coming out with a dent. I have ruled out excess case lube.
View Quote



Unless your brass is getting damaged during extraction, the only thing that causes dents during sizing is excessive lube.
5/31/2016 6:59:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote History
Quoted:



Unless your brass is getting damaged during extraction, the only thing that causes dents during sizing is excessive lube.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The question remains about the dented shoulder/wall. If I am only bumping the shoulder back .001-.002 why is the case coming out with a dent. I have ruled out excess case lube.



Unless your brass is getting damaged during extraction, the only thing that causes dents during sizing is excessive lube.


..or a plugged vent hole.
5/31/2016 7:08:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote History
Quoted:


..or a plugged vent hole.
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View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The question remains about the dented shoulder/wall. If I am only bumping the shoulder back .001-.002 why is the case coming out with a dent. I have ruled out excess case lube.



Unless your brass is getting damaged during extraction, the only thing that causes dents during sizing is excessive lube.


..or a plugged vent hole.


The vent hole, if the die even has one, only comes into play when there is excessive lube present.  But there can be too much lube, and even a non-clogged vent hole won't make a difference.
5/31/2016 8:00:19 PM EDT
[#12]
I annealed some cases and will try again tonight.
5/31/2016 9:50:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Well the dent is no longer showing on the Winchester cases. I think my die was screwed too far in trying to get the FC cases down to size.

Even after annealing, the FC cases still don't come out the same size as the Winchester.
6/1/2016 6:02:53 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote History
Quoted:
When resizing you have to separate brass by headstamp if you want consistency, especially with 1x fired......and even then they may come out different until they've been well fire formed.
View Quote

6/1/2016 6:15:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote History
Quoted:... the FC cases still don't come out the same size as the Winchester.
View Quote



Why do you keep saying or expecting this?  All brands and even lots of the same brand brass are different.  You should not expect the same result when sizing different batches of brass.  If you look around, some FC brass is known for not being very good for reloading.
6/1/2016 9:26:05 AM EDT
[#16]
I've got a ton of the FC brass, it was free, and it works great in my gas gun.

I was just curious as to why there was such a large difference in sizing between it and other brands coming out of the same die, after being annealed and prepped. After some research, it makes sense. I knew there was a difference, that's obvious. I was curious as to the "why".
6/1/2016 9:33:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Spring back is different.
6/1/2016 11:23:16 AM EDT
[#18]
Yes, that's sums up what I found.

I've always loaded for precision rifles, never mixed brass or tried to load in bulk so never noticed this issue until the other day when a FC case got in the Winchester mix

Thanks.
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