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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which Dillon... (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/23/2016 9:17:53 PM EDT
Ive been reloading for about 10 years, rifle and pistol on a Rockchucker and have been shooting a bit more lately since getting a few friends into it.  I do shoot a variety of calibers but 9mm would be the primary caliber at 600/month, 10mm 200-300/month and 45acp about the same. All other calibers are smaller quantities unless I get back into prairie dog hunting, then .223 would be about 3k a year.
Your advice is appreciated. |
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I'm pretty happy with my 650's. I use a GS custom swager and swage on the press. For 5.56, press number 1 deprimes, swages, ball expander then resize and trim. Press number 2 deprimes (flash hole check for stray cleaning media), primes, drops powder, seats bullet and crimps. I just need to add the bullet feeder now   |
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I've been happy with my 550B for the last 20 years and 30,000 various pistol and rifle rounds. Personally, I don't like the auto index feature of the 650. Gotta love their warranty. Last week, I ordered some plastic tips for the primer tubes, due to age cracking. After 20 years, I was still in their system and there was no charge for the parts.
Plinkerman |
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.... Personally, I don't like the auto index feature of the 650. ...Plinkerman Why is that ? I have both, and wish the 550B had auto index ------------------------- to answer OP question, Call Brian Enos and discuss your needs with him. http://www.brianenos.com/ He's a retired IPSC & steel shooter who was sponsored by Dillon and is now a Dealer Really good guy who will take the time to listen and give solid advice. The 550B is quicker, easier, and cheaper to convert calibers The 650 with a case feeder is significantly faster, and easier to run, and also can use the powder check system. |
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The thing is... if you are even entertaining the idea of a case feeder, suck it up and go 650. Once you add case feeder parts to the 550 conversions, they barely cost any less than 650 conversions. And the difference in press cost with a case feeder thrown in is almost negligible (about $100).
Plus, the case feeder just plain works better with the 650. |
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Why is that ? I have both, and wish the 550B had auto index ------------------------- to answer OP question, Call Brian Enos and discuss your needs with him. http://www.brianenos.com/ He's a retired IPSC & steel shooter who was sponsored by Dillon and is now a Dealer Really good guy who will take the time to listen and give solid advice. The 550B is quicker, easier, and cheaper to convert calibers The 650 with a case feeder is significantly faster, and easier to run, and also can use the powder check system. Quoted:
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.... Personally, I don't like the auto index feature of the 650. ...Plinkerman Why is that ? I have both, and wish the 550B had auto index ------------------------- to answer OP question, Call Brian Enos and discuss your needs with him. http://www.brianenos.com/ He's a retired IPSC & steel shooter who was sponsored by Dillon and is now a Dealer Really good guy who will take the time to listen and give solid advice. The 550B is quicker, easier, and cheaper to convert calibers The 650 with a case feeder is significantly faster, and easier to run, and also can use the powder check system. I love my 650 and my newest addition was the 550 for precision reloading with the at500 powder die. I decided to say screw it and did a bulk load of .30-06 using my powder feed but thanks to the standard thread of Hornady's powder cop die, I was able to have the assurance that I normally get with my 650's powder check system. There is no substitute for the speed and and reliability of a 650, with maybe the exception of the 1050. |
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For 5.56, press number 1 deprimes, swages, ball expander then resize and trim. Press number 2 deprimes (flash hole check for stray cleaning media), primes, drops powder, seats bullet and crimps. That's pretty hard-core. Most of us just have two tool heads set up, and swap them out on a single press. After all, you can only use one of them at a time. 
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I've got both a 550 and a 650, I've had the 550 for about as long as they have been out, since 1985, the 650 I got last summer. IMHO the 550 is better as a starter machine, its less complicated than the 650, there are so many things going on with the 650 I just can't recommend it for a first progressive press. The 650 is outstanding but quite complicated. |
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I think for $395 shipped to your door, the 550B is SUPER hard to beat. If you load and shoot under 1200 rounds a month, I'll love it. It's very simple, easy and reliable. On the 550, I load a 100 rounds of pistol in about 8-9 min. It can be done faster, but that's an easy, comfortable pace. If you shooting more, say for USPSA and just need a lot of the same rounds, the 650 with the case feeder is the ticket. This will get you about 100 every 5ish min but there is a LOT more that could go wrong. I have about 3k loaded on my new 550 and 10's of thousands though my 650. If I had to only keep only one today, it would be the 550. |
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Quoted: Where are you finding 550s for $395 shipped? Retail is well over that before shipping. Also a 550 has less mechanically to go wrong. A 650, or any auto advance press, makes it less likely for human error to appear. I don't think Dryflash allows links or names outside of the "where to find" thread. One of the larger reloading supply sites that is a dillion dealer. If you google 550B and sons, you might find it. <Edit> I just googled it and looked. I forgot about the "handling fee" of $7.95 on all their orders. Sorry, $403 shipped.  |
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Quoted: That's pretty hard-core. Most of us just have two tool heads set up, and swap them out on a single press. After all, you can only use one of them at a time. Quoted: Quoted: For 5.56, press number 1 deprimes, swages, ball expander then resize and trim. Press number 2 deprimes (flash hole check for stray cleaning media), primes, drops powder, seats bullet and crimps. That's pretty hard-core. Most of us just have two tool heads set up, and swap them out on a single press. After all, you can only use one of them at a time. Eventually I want to automate them. Turn them on and spend all my time refilling brass primers and bullets. |
| You know, no one has mentioned a Square Deal yet. I keep one in 9mm, so I don't have to change out the primer system on the 550. They are cheap, and will crank out some quality ammo. They are really best dedicated to a single caliber though. I swear, if I were starting over I would have a square deal in each pistol caliber and a 650 for rifle. |
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Quoted: I don't think Dryflash allows links or names outside of the "where to find" thread. One of the larger reloading supply sites that is a dillion dealer. If you google 550B and sons, you might find it. <Edit> I just googled it and looked. I forgot about the "handling fee" of $7.95 on all their orders. Sorry, $403 shipped. Quoted: Quoted: Where are you finding 550s for $395 shipped? Retail is well over that before shipping. Also a 550 has less mechanically to go wrong. A 650, or any auto advance press, makes it less likely for human error to appear. I don't think Dryflash allows links or names outside of the "where to find" thread. One of the larger reloading supply sites that is a dillion dealer. If you google 550B and sons, you might find it. <Edit> I just googled it and looked. I forgot about the "handling fee" of $7.95 on all their orders. Sorry, $403 shipped. It's fine to mention the site, when links start getting posted caution must be used to keep thread from becoming a "where to find" thread. Folks are just too lazy to Google sometimes.  |
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I don't think Dryflash allows links or names outside of the "where to find" thread. One of the larger reloading supply sites that is a dillion dealer. If you google 550B and sons, you might find it. <Edit> I just googled it and looked. I forgot about the "handling fee" of $7.95 on all their orders. Sorry, $403 shipped.
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Where are you finding 550s for $395 shipped? Retail is well over that before shipping. Also a 550 has less mechanically to go wrong. A 650, or any auto advance press, makes it less likely for human error to appear. I don't think Dryflash allows links or names outside of the "where to find" thread. One of the larger reloading supply sites that is a dillion dealer. If you google 550B and sons, you might find it. <Edit> I just googled it and looked. I forgot about the "handling fee" of $7.95 on all their orders. Sorry, $403 shipped.
I see the one you mean, it has no caliber conversion though so it isn't the great deal I thought it was. Anyway, back on topic. I just thought someone had broken Dillon MAP  that is the standard price but is deceptively low as they require caliber conversions.
The price difference between a base 650 and 550 is about $120. The only major difference requiring any amount of work in a caliber changeover is primer size (the other 650 parts are the case body insert, two parts to the case feeder, and a locator, all of which can be very quickly and easily removed with your fingers). If I could swing a case feeder I would spring for the 650. Otherwise go 550. Op's volume isnt high enough to really necessitate a 650 over a 550. The 550 is still pretty quick. |
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Ive been reloading for about 10 years, rifle and pistol on a Rockchucker and have been shooting a bit more lately since getting a few friends into it. I do shoot a variety of calibers but 9mm would be the primary caliber at 600/month, 10mm 200-300/month and 45acp about the same. All other calibers are smaller quantities unless I get back into prairie dog hunting, then .223 would be about 3k a year.
Your advice is appreciated. I own a 550 and can recommend it, don't own a 650. For me, it came down to how much space I wanted to take up, how much complexity I wanted, portability, and speed I wanted. I went with the 550 and can easily load 400 an hour of pistol if I want to .... that is fast enough for me. Looking at your numbers ....... the 550 might ....and I say might ..... cost you maybe 4 hours a month v the 650 the way I looked at it, and that is probably overstated/debatable. (ymmv). I decided I didn't need or want a case feeder for my volume .... and a 650 without a case feeder seemed silly to me ....so I went with the 550 and am very very happy. I have my press mounted on a very sturdy portable mount ....and it can easily be detached from bench and moved to storage when not in use. The press is not very tall compared to a 650 with a case feeder. My left hand is already next to the press feeding bullets .... indexing manually takes next to zero extra time .... and I prefer it. Reloading isn't about speed for me anyway. In theory ... if I had a case feeder .... it is as that point the manual index may cost a little time as I would be waiting on my left hand with the right never leaving the handle ... but that is only assuming the complexity of the auto index/case feeder never costs ya time (which I don't believe). At any rate ... that is the way I came at it and am happy. You will be too with either Dillon. If you want a case feeder, or think you will someday ...get the 650. If you know you won't or don't want a case feeder ... get the 550. Don't buy a 650 without a case feeder just to get the auto indexing. my opinions, ymmv You can't go wrong with either. |
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I own a 550 and can recommend it, don't own a 650. For me, it came down to how much space I wanted to take up, how much complexity I wanted, portability, and speed I wanted. I went with the 550 and can easily load 400 an hour of pistol if I want to .... that is fast enough for me. Looking at your numbers ....... the 550 might ....and I say might ..... cost you maybe 4 hours a month v the 650 the way I looked at it, and that is probably overstated/debatable. (ymmv). I decided I didn't need or want a case feeder for my volume .... and a 650 without a case feeder seemed silly to me ....so I went with the 550 and am very very happy. I have my press mounted on a very sturdy portable mount ....and it can easily be detached from bench and moved to storage when not in use. The press is not very tall compared to a 650 with a case feeder. My left hand is already next to the press feeding bullets .... indexing manually takes next to zero extra time .... and I prefer it. Reloading isn't about speed for me anyway. In theory ... if I had a case feeder .... it is as that point the manual index may cost a little time as I would be waiting on my left hand with the right never leaving the handle ... but that is only assuming the complexity of the auto index/case feeder never costs ya time (which I don't believe). At any rate ... that is the way I came at it and am happy. You will be too with either Dillon. If you want a case feeder, or think you will someday ...get the 650. If you know you won't or don't want a case feeder ... get the 550. Don't buy a 650 without a case feeder just to get the auto indexing. my opinions, ymmv You can't go wrong with either. Quoted:
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Ive been reloading for about 10 years, rifle and pistol on a Rockchucker and have been shooting a bit more lately since getting a few friends into it. I do shoot a variety of calibers but 9mm would be the primary caliber at 600/month, 10mm 200-300/month and 45acp about the same. All other calibers are smaller quantities unless I get back into prairie dog hunting, then .223 would be about 3k a year.
Your advice is appreciated. I own a 550 and can recommend it, don't own a 650. For me, it came down to how much space I wanted to take up, how much complexity I wanted, portability, and speed I wanted. I went with the 550 and can easily load 400 an hour of pistol if I want to .... that is fast enough for me. Looking at your numbers ....... the 550 might ....and I say might ..... cost you maybe 4 hours a month v the 650 the way I looked at it, and that is probably overstated/debatable. (ymmv). I decided I didn't need or want a case feeder for my volume .... and a 650 without a case feeder seemed silly to me ....so I went with the 550 and am very very happy. I have my press mounted on a very sturdy portable mount ....and it can easily be detached from bench and moved to storage when not in use. The press is not very tall compared to a 650 with a case feeder. My left hand is already next to the press feeding bullets .... indexing manually takes next to zero extra time .... and I prefer it. Reloading isn't about speed for me anyway. In theory ... if I had a case feeder .... it is as that point the manual index may cost a little time as I would be waiting on my left hand with the right never leaving the handle ... but that is only assuming the complexity of the auto index/case feeder never costs ya time (which I don't believe). At any rate ... that is the way I came at it and am happy. You will be too with either Dillon. If you want a case feeder, or think you will someday ...get the 650. If you know you won't or don't want a case feeder ... get the 550. Don't buy a 650 without a case feeder just to get the auto indexing. my opinions, ymmv You can't go wrong with either. You know what 650's don't do... forget to index. Have even a single senior moment, you have a double charge or squib. Have a serious senior moment and you will have a quadruple charge. True auto progressive loaders are just fun to use, fun to watch. I don't care who makes them. |
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Assuming the OP has 4-5 hours a month to reload, then the 550b is probably the way to go.
You can always upgrade at a later date if need be I started with a 550b and was initially reloading 2000 rounds of 9mm per month. After several months I purchased an s1050 to handle the 9mm heavy lifting. Within a year I added a xl650 and began migrating most of my calibers from the 550b to the xl650 (tool heads and caliber conversion kits is all that was needed as I had dedicated caliber conversion for my 550b with powder dispenser and dies).
While most of my reloading is now done on s1050/xl650 I still have the 550b setup for several calibers, plus having migrated to other presses it's nice to have a press to fall back to in the event one of my larger presses is down for any reason. ~g |
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I started out on the RCBS Rockchucker. Used it for a few years and bought the Dillon 550. Used it for about 15 years then bought the 650 last year. I still own all 3 and use all 3 on occasion, but the 650 has been getting the bulk of use time lately. I love the case feeder and the powder check system.
I was never able to have a load rate of more than 300-350 per hour on the 550. Loading 100 in 8-9 minutes is a load rate of 650-750 per hour  . I thought I had a pretty good system down, but I guess not. I think the fastest I ever went was 100 in 15 minutes with my wife putting the case in station 1. With the 650 I was processing brass at a rate of 900 per hour and reloading at about 750 per hour.
My recommendation is get the 650 if you feel confident in your reloading abilities, pay close attention to details, and can walk and chew gum at the same time. If not, the 550 is a great machine.... it's just a little more forgiving if you make a mistake. |
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Thanks for the replies. I will try to reply to everyone in this post.
Budget isn't set but a 650 is not going to break me. I cant see the justification to make a jump to a 1050 though. If the press will take a case feeder I would get one. One of the reasons I favor the 650 over the 550 is the extra hole in the tool head. It could come in handy for a lot of things. I am not worried about learning to run a 650 as I have operated enough complex machines doing multiple things at one time. If one were to buy a press from someone other than Dillon direct is the warranty still honored? Having a Square Deal setup for 9mm and a 550 or 650 for all the others is an interesting option. Maybe even having a Square Deal for all the pistol calibers and something else for rifle. Off to youtube to study more videos of them in operation. |
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Thanks for the replies. I will try to reply to everyone in this post. Budget isn't set but a 650 is not going to break me. I cant see the justification to make a jump to a 1050 though. If the press will take a case feeder I would get one. One of the reasons I favor the 650 over the 550 is the extra hole in the tool head. It could come in handy for a lot of things. I am not worried about learning to run a 650 as I have operated enough complex machines doing multiple things at one time. If one were to buy a press from someone other than Dillon direct is the warranty still honored? Having a Square Deal setup for 9mm and a 550 or 650 for all the others is an interesting option. Maybe even having a Square Deal for all the pistol calibers and something else for rifle. Off to youtube to study more videos of them in operation. As someone who jumped from a Square Deal to an XL650, I would say if you're going to do any significant quantity, the case feeder will be well worth it for 9mm. With the case feeder, I can crank out 100 rounds in 7 or so minutes. That is about double the speed I'd get 100 done with the Square Deal. The ideal setup, IMO, would be a 650 for high volume stuff and a 550 for low volume stuff. If you have one press, the 650 is the better choice if the initial expense isn't too much, and you can keep toolheads for the other calibers setup. I don't regret selling the Square Deal (as I used the money from that to buy toolheads and conversions for all the other calibers I load) but I could see the convenience of the smaller press to load calibers that I don't shoot thousands of rounds of every month or year (like .44 mag or 10mm). |
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Then you put on a bullet feeder... you can break 1k an hour easily then, and your largest time sink is filling primer tubes!
Seriously, though, if you have a 650, the need for a square deal will vanish. Not because the square deal is bad- it is emphatically not- but because it's a waste to not spend 5 minutes changing calibers and using your 650. |
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Seriously, though, if you have a 650, the need for a square deal will vanish. Not because the square deal is bad- it is emphatically not- but because it's a waste to not spend 5 minutes changing calibers and using your 650. Yeah, I tend to agree. I had an SDB and a 650 at the same time. I really liked the SDB, and I can see where some people get several, each set up in a different caliber. But I'm limited for space. I ended up selling the SDB and buying more toolheads and caliber conversions for the 650. |
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Quoted: <Snip> I thought I had a pretty good system down, but I guess not. I think the fastest I ever went was 100 in 15 minutes with my wife putting the case in station 1. With the 650 I was processing brass at a rate of 900 per hour and reloading at about 750 per hour. <snip> I was going from memory on the 100 round count. I was talking a 100 only and not a nonstop pace for an hour. Anyway, I seen your post at work and it made me doubt my memory. So I thought I would put a stop watch on it when I got home just to see if I stuck my foot in my mouth.... again. I started off going sorta fast for the first 20 or so rounds and decided to slow down to a comfortable but somewhat brisk pace to simulate a loading session and not a drag race. With primers loaded, brass and bullets ready, I just loaded 100 147gr 9mm in 8:48. Well, 99 rounds. The first round was to test set up. Could or would someone do that for an hour? Nope. Having to stop to refill the primer tube and brass bin 3-5 min. So thats a real world 400 rounds in 56min. |
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When I first started reloading 20+ years ago, my first press ever was a Dillon 650. I sold all my guns and presses and stuff to finance graduate school. So I'm not a fan of the 650. I only use it for small primered 45 ACP and 40SW. If you can afford it, go with the 1050 with bullet drop. You will be loving life. The down side to the 1050 is that the caliber conversions suck hardcore. |
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As the Which Press - Hornady or RCBS? thread seems to be fair game for Blue Kool-Aid...
If you plan on absolutely positive getting a case feeder, the Dillon 650's feeder beats the Hornady LnL APs by a bit. If not, consider the LnL AP. I'd go 650 w/casefeeder or LnL AP with or without feeder over the 550 (lack of auto-index, 4 hole vs 5, no rifle case feeder). Any of them will produce quality ammo, and each have their own quirks and setup. |
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Go with a 650 w/ case feed and never look back.
I started reloading 5 years ago and bought the 650 as my first press. Comes with very detailed and easy to understand instructions, lifetime warranty on parts, easy to switch calibers, etc.. Im going to purchase another one and set it up specifically for .223 You wont be disappointed and will wonder why you didnt do it sooner. |
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I learned to reload on a 550. I really enjoyed it. Then I bought a Hornaday LnL when it was time for my own press. Long story short, it didn't work out for me but I did like the auto advance feature. So I bought a 650 and have been in love with it since.
Granted, I don't reload very much, maybe 5-6000 a year between 9mm and 45. That amount would be easy to do on a 550. Caliber conversions are more expensive on the 650 and can really set you in the hole if you have a lot of calibers to buy for. |
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How much for the LnL? Maybe we can find it a good home. Quoted:
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Id get the Dillon XL650. I own a 650 and a Hornadly LNL AP. I only use my Dillon. Ive gotten into debates with people and I even offer to sell my LnL but not one takes it..lol. How much for the LnL? Maybe we can find it a good home. Lol, send me a pm |
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Quoted: Lol, send me a pm Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Id get the Dillon XL650. I own a 650 and a Hornadly LNL AP. I only use my Dillon. Ive gotten into debates with people and I even offer to sell my LnL but not one takes it..lol. How much for the LnL? Maybe we can find it a good home. Lol, send me a pm Use IM as there is no buying or selling outside of the EE. |
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Thanks everyone, I got the advice I had expected and decided on a Dillon xl650, case feeder, powder checker, 9mm dies and a cover for when its not in use from Brian Enos. In the future I will have to decide if conversion kits for the 650 are the way to go on calibers I don't shoot that much.
Maybe I need a 550 for those...
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Thanks everyone, I got the advice I had expected and decided on a Dillon xl650, case feeder, powder checker, 9mm dies and a cover for when its not in use from Brian Enos. In the future I will have to decide if conversion kits for the 650 are the way to go on calibers I don't shoot that much. Maybe I need a 550 for those... excellent choice on the press and the vendor 
Brian Enos is a cool dude 
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Thanks everyone, I got the advice I had expected and decided on a Dillon xl650, case feeder, powder checker, 9mm dies and a cover for when its not in use from Brian Enos. In the future I will have to decide if conversion kits for the 650 are the way to go on calibers I don't shoot that much. Maybe I need a 550 for those... 650 is an excellent choice. You will love the blue. |
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Quoted: When I first started reloading 20+ years ago, my first press ever was a Dillon 650. I sold all my guns and presses and stuff to finance graduate school. When I started reloading again, about four years ago, I purchased a Dillon 650. The new Dillon 650s have this nasty indexing problem where small sized cases, like 9mm and 40SW, spill powder upon landing on the next index station. There's all sorts of 'fixes' online, but there's no way to completely eliminate the powder spill. I don't remember my old 650 from the 90s having this problem. So I'm not a fan of the 650. I only use it for small primered 45 ACP and 40SW. If you can afford it, go with the 1050 with bullet drop. You will be loving life. The down side to the 1050 is that the caliber conversions suck hardcore. How much of a major problem are we talking with 9mm? I've been loading on a 550b for almost 15 years now, and was thinking about getting a 650 and starting out with 9mm (which I've done for years on the 550). |
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How much of a major problem are we talking with 9mm? I've been loading on a 550b for almost 15 years now, and was thinking about getting a 650 and starting out with 9mm (which I've done for years on the 550). Quoted:
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When I first started reloading 20+ years ago, my first press ever was a Dillon 650. I sold all my guns and presses and stuff to finance graduate school. When I started reloading again, about four years ago, I purchased a Dillon 650. The new Dillon 650s have this nasty indexing problem where small sized cases, like 9mm and 40SW, spill powder upon landing on the next index station. There's all sorts of 'fixes' online, but there's no way to completely eliminate the powder spill. I don't remember my old 650 from the 90s having this problem. So I'm not a fan of the 650. I only use it for small primered 45 ACP and 40SW. If you can afford it, go with the 1050 with bullet drop. You will be loving life. The down side to the 1050 is that the caliber conversions suck hardcore. How much of a major problem are we talking with 9mm? I've been loading on a 550b for almost 15 years now, and was thinking about getting a 650 and starting out with 9mm (which I've done for years on the 550). Not much of a problem. There are several kits you can buy to remedy spilled powder if your press does have the issue. I personally have zero spilled powder after using a lighter index spring and ball. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which Dillon... (Page 1 of 2)
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