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Posted: 3/6/2017 8:37:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
Can you move the powder die to station 3? That would make it all work out for you. I don't see any hard and fast reason that the powder station must always be station 2. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GHPorter:
Originally Posted By towerofpower94:
This as my thought process as well, but I can't figure out how you'd be able to use one in a Dillon 650 with station one resizing and station two being the powder die. I currently have station three open and the bullet sister in four, but if the M die can't work to make a step in a charged case it's a non-starter for my needs. Can you move the powder die to station 3? That would make it all work out for you. I don't see any hard and fast reason that the powder station must always be station 2. The powder fail safe rod requires the PM to be in station two. |
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Posted: 3/7/2017 12:02:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Effenpig]
[#2]
Funny timing on finding this thread. I have an m-die for 30 carbine that I bought after trying the Lee universal expander.
The m-die works great but I wanted larger plugs for different bullets. I was initially looking at the custom m-die plugs but hadn't made a decision Last night I was on the NOE site and saw the plugs for the Lee expander. I really like that idea better so I ordered 5 sizes from .307 to .311 Depending on spring back .310 and .311 work really well with PC cast bullets for .300 blk I have been using an expander ball from a 7.62x39 die in my hornady blackout die with great results but I'd like to resize all my brass the same and then expand the necks to suit specific bullets |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 3/8/2017 9:33:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Are these expander inserts for the powder through lee die, or for the universal flaring die like this one? I'm wanting to try casting and PC lead bullets in 300BO and it sounds like the NOE ones are the ticket.
https://smile.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Universal-Flaring-Die/dp/B000N8N538/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488978932&sr=8-1&keywords=lee expander die&tag=vglnk-c102-20 |
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Posted: 3/8/2017 10:16:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94:
The powder fail safe rod requires the PM to be in station two. Sorry, I'm out of ideas. Unless you do what I do and size all your brass in a separate pass, I can't see how you can incorporate an M-Die in your 650 setup. 
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Posted: 3/9/2017 12:08:04 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aero83:
Are these expander inserts for the powder through lee die, or for the universal flaring die like this one? I'm wanting to try casting and PC lead bullets in 300BO and it sounds like the NOE ones are the ticket. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N8N538?tag=vglnk-c102-20 expander die&tag=vglnk-c102-20 For the one you linked to. Just got mine today. The .307-.311 is really nice withe the MBC 245's. Makes a nice little "shelf" to set the bullet in. I pulled a few test bullets after seating and the powder coat was all intact, no shaving |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 9:11:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Effenpig:
For the one you linked to. Just got mine today. The .307-.311 is really nice withe the MBC 245's. Makes a nice little "shelf" to set the bullet in. I pulled a few test bullets after seating and the powder coat was all intact, no shaving |
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KS, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2017 12:09:47 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Effenpig:
For the one you linked to. Just got mine today. The .307-.311 is really nice withe the MBC 245's. Makes a nice little "shelf" to set the bullet in. I pulled a few test bullets after seating and the powder coat was all intact, no shaving Thank you! |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 3:58:35 AM EDT
[#8]
I use and like the M die but any decent mouth flare will prevent shaving.
I like the M die because unlike a standard flare the bullet sits squarely in the case mouth which gives it a lot better chance of starting and seating without tipping one way or another. Plus the step the M die creates stretches the case mouth less than a conventional flare. Motor |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 8:19:56 AM EDT
[#9]
I imagine you guys have to use a crimp die after the M-die ?
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Posted: 3/11/2017 8:30:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Motor1]
[#10]
Actually many people don't crimp after using the M die. That's another reason why it's so nice.The small step-up that it makes most often does not interfere with the round chambering freely.
Many calibers have plenty enough neck length that losing that very small amount of neck tension means nothing. A lot of cast bullet rifle shooters don't like to crimp and use the M die for this reason. I don't crimp my sub-sonic cast 7.62x54R ammo. I use the M die. Even when I do crimp cast bullet rifle ammo I'm not actually "crimping" I'm only removing the mouth flare. The only ammo that I actually crimp is rimmed pistol ammo. Motor |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 11:30:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Derek45:
I imagine you guys have to use a crimp die after the M-die ? |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 12:09:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Motor1:
I use and like the M die but any decent mouth flare will prevent shaving. I like the M die because unlike a standard flare the bullet sits squarely in the case mouth which gives it a lot better chance of starting and seating without tipping one way or another. Plus the step the M die creates stretches the case mouth less than a conventional flare. Motor The bullet sitting squarely in the case mouth makes the M-Die SO helpful on my Hornady LnL. If the bullet doesn't wobble all over the place when the shell plate advances, that's one less thing to have to attend to while loading. I agree about standard flaring dies stretching the case mouth more, too. The M-Die provides a consistent inside neck sizing, but only opens up the mouth itself, not the whole case neck. I suspect that this will also promote both longer case life and less frequent need to anneal cases. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 12:14:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Derek45:
I imagine you guys have to use a crimp die after the M-die ? For 300 Blackout, I use a Lee FCD, and crimp appropriately. But for 5.56, I just do what I'd do with .45 or 9mm; I "undo" the mouth flare, sometimes also with an FCD. Whether you go for a "crimp" or not, the FCD still gives you at least some of the characteristic impressions in the case mouth. To me, except for smoothing the flare back down, you should crimp when and if appropriate, period. The only change the M-Die causes is how distinct that case mouth flare is. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 1:29:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Hmmm....
i currently don't flare or crimp rifle after the RT1200 trimmer, I use a redding neck sizer on my prep toolhead it's working great, so I'm not sure if i want the M-die or not 
guess i could add a FCD after my bullet seat station |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 3:35:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Derek45:
Hmmm.... i currently don't flare or crimp rifle after the RT1200 trimmer, I use a redding neck sizer on my prep toolhead it's working great, so I'm not sure if i want the M-die or not
guess i could add a FCD after my bullet seat station I could see with boat tails you would not need one. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 3:46:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
I'm using my M die when I load PC cast bullets. I could see with boat tails you would not need one. Yes. I thought it was understood we were talking about loading cast bullets. But as stated by others the M die is a tremendous help seating flat base jacketed bullets. I don't personally use one for this but if I did I would very likely remove the mouth expansion with a FCD. I could see where it may cause issues with feeding especially in semiautomatics. I can visualize case mouths getting beat up because they are raised ever so slightly. Motor |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 3:51:05 PM EDT
[#17]
I shoot jacketed only in 223/556
I do like the flat based VMAX bullets does anyone have a photo of what the case mouth looks like after using the M-die ? . |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 6:57:06 PM EDT
[#18]
It would take a very close up photo to see anything.
A helpful photo may be a side by side with bullet out of neck and one with bullet in the neck. The M die opens the mouth up just large enough to slip the bullet base in. The depth of the expansion is about the same as the length of a gas check. Maybe .050" Motor |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 9:57:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Derek45:
I shoot jacketed only in 223/556 I do like the flat based VMAX bullets does anyone have a photo of what the case mouth looks like after using the M-die ? . 
I'm sure I posted it earlier in this thread, but here it is again. Case on the right the whole gas check is sitting on the case mouth. Case on the left, the gas check is almost all the way into the mouth. These bullets were set on the mouth and were not pushed down at all. |
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Posted: 3/11/2017 10:34:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Thanks
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2017 2:54:57 AM EDT
[#21]
A factory m-die
A couple of 45acp expanders 
9mm's that have been expanded with a m-die. I use .358" bullets in all my 9mm/38spl/357's. The m-die allows the bullets to start strait. 
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:52:39 PM EDT
[#22]
My Lyman M-die arrived today. ( 223)
I set it up on the XL650 and loaded up 100 55gr hornady soft points ( flat base ) Very nice Thanks to all
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Posted: 3/15/2017 10:57:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Derek45:
My Lyman M-die arrived today. ( 223) I set it up on the XL650 and loaded up 100 55gr hornady soft points ( flat base ) Very nice Thanks to all Now I'm one of the M die proponents. Welcome to the club. 
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Posted: 7/20/2017 2:33:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Will be setting my M dies up this weekend on my brass prep toolheads.
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WI, USA
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Posted: 7/20/2017 11:15:00 AM EDT
[#25]
M-die is one of the more useful dies out there that you buy one at a time. I bought my first one for 9mm, as the standard Hornady expander is really blunt and the adjustment sucks. Since then, I have bought one for every caliber I own. I use them in pistol because I can get away with less expansion and still get excellent seating with a HiTek bullets. I use them for 4 reasons in rifle. First, flat based bullets, I dont need to say more. Second, it removes a step in case prep, with a very minor flare I dont have to inside chamfer anything. Third, my sizing dies balls are all under sized, so I use these to final pass my neck sizing, basically poor mans mandrel sizing the necks right before I load. Forth, wet tumbling will sometimes put a very minor ding in the case mouth, and the M-die will remove it.
I do not always crimp my rifle stuff. Blammo ammo, yes crimped. Accuracy ammo, nope. |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 8:32:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towerofpower94:
The powder fail safe rod requires the PM to be in station two. 
That picture may not work since it is on photobucket. but you can read about the Dillon PM retrograde here: http://www.ericwesselman.com/DillonPowderMeasure/ All of my powder measures have received the retrograde treatment and I bought the springs from Dillon. but that was mainly to make them.less clunky and to get rid of the bell crank part. |
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Posted: 7/21/2017 11:59:51 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WeimaranerDad:
If you went with the two spring option on the Dillon PM....like how they were originally...could you do without the failsafe rod? and then move the PM to station #3 on a 650? http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt128/jerrykeefer/IMG_2240_zpsc3qzaryl.jpg That picture may not work since it is on photobucket. but you can read about the Dillon PM retrograde here: http://www.ericwesselman.com/DillonPowderMeasure/ All of my powder measures have received the retrograde treatment and I bought the springs from Dillon. but that was mainly to make them.less clunky and to get rid of the bell crank part. Please stay on topic. dryflash3 |
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Posted: 7/22/2017 12:44:03 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dryflash3:
I don't know if you posted in the thread you meant to, but the topic in this thread is the Lyman "M" die, not Dillon PM's. Please stay on topic. dryflash3 |
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Posted: 9/25/2021 9:49:41 AM EDT
[#29]
What size NOE expander is best for 300blk?
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Posted: 9/25/2021 1:50:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chewbacca: What size NOE expander is best for 300blk? Post your question in the 300 blk Master thread. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/300-Blackout-Master-Thread/42-385765/ |
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Posted: 9/25/2021 1:51:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WeimaranerDad: Ok...my bad. I thought I was responding to that dude I quoted. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WeimaranerDad: Originally Posted By dryflash3: I don't know if you posted in the thread you meant to, but the topic in this thread is the Lyman "M" die, not Dillon PM's. Please stay on topic. dryflash3 Ok...my bad. I thought I was responding to that dude I quoted. |
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