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Posted: 3/20/2015 10:10:08 AM EDT
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I have been doing my research and I am about ready to load my first rounds. I want to be super cautious so I am asking for some help to verify my research. I have Lee and Lyman manuals and have also perused the powder sites. I am coming up with a lot of questions but to simplify, here is where I am at:
9mm Using 115gn Thick Plated or Copper Plated (thick is RMR and just copper is Xtreme): Titegroup Can’t Find Specific Data in books or on Site. Unique only lists Only FMJ or JHP Power Pistol 5.45-5.9 Took middle of Lead and Jacketed for start (5.0-5.9) and max start of FMJ data)-This is merely my guess and I don't want to load on a guess Bullseye Can’t Figure it anywhere Using 115gn Hornady FMJ I got this: Titegroup 3.9-4.3 Unique Don’t Know Power Pistol 5.9-6.3 Bullseye Can’t Figure Plated has little data and for the FMJ I usually only see HP so thus I can't figure out what to do. For 223 it may be a bit simpler: Using 55gn FMJBT BL-C(2) 23.0-26.5 (Lyman Manual) 25.5-27.5(Lee Manual) Hodgson site says 25.5-27.5 for SPR SP or 24.0-27.0 for SFIRE. What are those designations and they seem different? Any help you can provide is appreciated. It just seems I am getting contradictory info so I wanted to ask some pros. |
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For plated bullets, I use lead data as a starting point.
I have found Unique to need some compression to burn cleanly, so start at ~4.7-5.0 grains and an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" With Bullseye, start at ~4.0-4.2 grains and again an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" SPR SP = Spire Soft Point SFIRE = Sinterfire Frangible Bullet |
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Quoted:
For plated bullets, I use lead data as a starting point. I have found Unique to need some compression to burn cleanly, so start at ~4.7-5.0 grains and an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" With Bullseye, start at ~4.0-4.2 grains and again an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" SPR SP = Spire Soft Point SFIRE = Sinterfire Frangible Bullet For PLATED bullets, Lead data is a nice safe place to start. FYI: most SPEER bullets are Electroplated- including the Gold Dot. Speer likes to try to HIDE the fact that their bullets are electroplated by using the mis-leading term "TMJ" - or "total metal jacket" (cute, huh?). Good news for you is that Speer reloading manual data should be more accurate as to real-world results you might get with plated bullets (and YES - I know the Speer plating is thicker than most. Its still plating, not a jacket). More good news (if you have a Speer book) is that Speer uses actual firearms and not a "test barrel" to get their velocity info. I appreciate that about Speer. They even tell you the barrel length of the test gun they used. |
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Quoted:
I have been doing my research and I am about ready to load my first rounds. I want to be super cautious so I am asking for some help to verify my research. I have Lee and Lyman manuals and have also perused the powder sites. I am coming up with a lot of questions but to simplify, here is where I am at: 9mm Using 115gn Thick Plated or Copper Plated (thick is RMR and just copper is Xtreme): Titegroup Can’t Find Specific Data in books or on Site. Unique only lists Only FMJ or JHP Power Pistol 5.45-5.9 Took middle of Lead and Jacketed for start (5.0-5.9) and max start of FMJ data)-This is merely my guess and I don't want to load on a guess Bullseye Can’t Figure it anywhere Using 115gn Hornady FMJ I got this: Titegroup 3.9-4.3 Unique Don’t Know Power Pistol 5.9-6.3 Bullseye Can’t Figure Plated has little data and for the FMJ I usually only see HP so thus I can't figure out what to do. For 223 it may be a bit simpler: Using 55gn FMJBT BL-C(2) 23.0-26.5 (Lyman Manual) 25.5-27.5(Lee Manual) Hodgson site says 25.5-27.5 for SPR SP or 24.0-27.0 for SFIRE. What are those designations and they seem different? Any help you can provide is appreciated. It just seems I am getting contradictory info so I wanted to ask some pros. From Xtreme plated bullets. Load Info Our Copper Plated Bullets can be run at mid-range jacketed velocities or higher end lead velocities. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp Any velocities over 1200 FPS we recommend either our Heavy Plate Concave Base or Hollow Point products for superior accuracy. We recommend keeping velocities to less than 1500 FPS (Feet Per Second) and using only a light taper crimp http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm Unique and Bullseye Data found here. http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx For the 223 use the Speer SP data for your FMJ bullets. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Lee data will almost always equal Powder guys data as that is where they borrow it from, then they sell it. Lee and Hodgdon are NOT two sources of data, only one. |
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Also: as for bullets, please consider 147 grn or heavier. At least 124s, 130s, or 135s.
the 115s are way too snappy and miserable to shoot. Whatever the weight, make sure to load LONG for safety - most guns work well with 1.140 or 1.150" (although CZs might need a shorter OAL). As for Powder, if you have not bought it yet, avoid Unique! - its filthy, smelly, temp sensitive and position sensitive. I tried it years ago. Never again! Plus for the same price there are much better powders. Universal comes to mind (if you can find it). Better still, Win. 231 or the identical HP-38 are great. Solo 1000 is my favorite. Also, any of the similar powders to "Red Dot" will work great - "E3" powder being the best, but there are other powders that claim to duplicate Red Dot performance. Bullseye is OK - a bit dirty but it works well. Titegroup is excellent if you can find it. |
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I use 5.6 grains of Power Pistol with Hornady 115grain XTP's seated to 1.070". Actual velocity over my chronograph was 1170 fps which I consider a full power load.
Your Power Pistol data is much higher powder charge weights than what I experienced in actual practice. I have never been happy with any load I developed using BL-C2. I ended up dumping it in my back yard for fertilizer. H322, IMR-8208-XBR, AA-2105, N133, H4895, Varget, RE-15, RE-10X, LT-32 and a host of others all work better for me. |
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Quoted:
For plated bullets, I use lead data as a starting point. I have found Unique to need some compression to burn cleanly, so start at ~4.7-5.0 grains and an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" With Bullseye, start at ~4.0-4.2 grains and again an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" SPR SP = Spire Soft Point SFIRE = Sinterfire Frangible Bullet is that FMJ or plated data? |
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Quoted:
is that FMJ or plated data? Quoted:
Quoted:
For plated bullets, I use lead data as a starting point. I have found Unique to need some compression to burn cleanly, so start at ~4.7-5.0 grains and an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" With Bullseye, start at ~4.0-4.2 grains and again an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" SPR SP = Spire Soft Point SFIRE = Sinterfire Frangible Bullet is that FMJ or plated data? Follow your Bullet Manufacturers Load Recommendations. See post above with quote and link./ This is your Plated Data. . |
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Quoted:
Follow your Bullet Manufacturers Load Recommendations. See post above with quote and link./ This is your Plated Data. . Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For plated bullets, I use lead data as a starting point. I have found Unique to need some compression to burn cleanly, so start at ~4.7-5.0 grains and an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" With Bullseye, start at ~4.0-4.2 grains and again an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" SPR SP = Spire Soft Point SFIRE = Sinterfire Frangible Bullet is that FMJ or plated data? Follow your Bullet Manufacturers Load Recommendations. See post above with quote and link./ This is your Plated Data. . I'm doing my best to get to the source but at least I now know for Xtreme for sure. |
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Quoted:
is that FMJ or plated data? Quoted:
Quoted:
For plated bullets, I use lead data as a starting point. I have found Unique to need some compression to burn cleanly, so start at ~4.7-5.0 grains and an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" With Bullseye, start at ~4.0-4.2 grains and again an OAL of ~1.120"-1.130" SPR SP = Spire Soft Point SFIRE = Sinterfire Frangible Bullet is that FMJ or plated data? Neither. It is lead RN bullet load data. |
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I shoot the RMR 115 grain plated RN (round-nose) out of a Ruger KP89D using Titegroup and HP38.
For lack of a better term, Titegroup is quite a bit snappier in my gun than HP38. For load data, I used the Hodgdon load data for a 115 gr. LRN (leaded round nose) which is online. Most of the plated bullet producers recommend leaded data for their rounds, with the exception of the one noted previously. Read and double check for yourself as I can mis-type, but that starts you at 3.9g rains of Titegroup, 1.10 COL. The MAX is only 4.3 grains so you don't want to move up a lot between tests. That worked very well for me and cycled my gun reliably. I've since increased and now run 4.1 grains without pressure signs. I did not have a chronograph at the time. My latest loads are using Berry's plated bullets. Measuring and weighed they are extremely similar (I couldn't find a difference) I used the same load data and I now have a chronograph, They are shooting between 1077 and 1088 fps measured on a batch of 10. For reference, 10 factory rounds (FMJ) are running 1128 - 1143 fps. I'm well below the 1500fps that's recommended for plated and I may be able to speed them up, but accuracy and cycling seem fine, so I don't really feel the need. The short version: make sure you find your own reasonably close published data and start at the bottom. Don't use my data as good cause to start higher. To be honest..the info on plated bullets is pretty thin and not exacting. I load and shoot .40 and 9mm plated bullets from RMR, Ranier Arms and Berry's. For all 3, leaded data for a bullet of the same general shape has been the right place to start for me. |
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Quoted:
Also: as for bullets, please consider 147 grn or heavier. At least 124s, 130s, or 135s. the 115s are way too snappy and miserable to shoot. Whatever the weight, make sure to load LONG for safety - most guns work well with 1.140 or 1.150" (although CZs might need a shorter OAL). As for Powder, if you have not bought it yet, avoid Unique! - its filthy, smelly, temp sensitive and position sensitive. I tried it years ago. Never again! Plus for the same price there are much better powders. Universal comes to mind (if you can find it). Better still, Win. 231 or the identical HP-38 are great. Solo 1000 is my favorite. Also, any of the similar powders to "Red Dot" will work great - "E3" powder being the best, but there are other powders that claim to duplicate Red Dot performance. Bullseye is OK - a bit dirty but it works well. Titegroup is excellent if you can find it. At the other end of the spectrum, i have no issues with unique, using in 38 & .357. My go to is TG, for 9 & 45. |
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I've been using Unique since 1985 and have absolutely no complaints. It does not seem as dirty as it once may have been. Its VERY versatile too.
I use it in a variety of cartridges including rifle cartridges with cast bullets. Motor1 BTW: If you fallow dryflash3's post you can't go wrong. 
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