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Posted: 3/17/2015 5:08:09 PM EDT
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Im very new to reloading and have just recently loaded my first batch of 45. I went to the range today and had some pretty substantial (in my mind) problems while shooting. First, I was lucky if I could hit the ground. At 7-10 yards I could barely hit paper and was hitting about 6 inches low and 5 left. At times all over the place. Second, it was very uncomfortable on my trigger finger and actually hurt. Not sure if this is trigger slap or what. Keep in mind that this is a gun I'm very familiar with and usually shoot very well with. Also never had any pain in my trigger finger shooting. Any opinions or ideas would be great. Load and gun data are as follows:
Full size Smith M&P 45 Winchester LP brass Winchester large pistol primers 5.3g Winchester 231 230g Hornady FMJ-RN Seated to 1.250 OAL then crimped using a Lee factory crimp die |
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Quoted:
So you started with a Max load? How much crimp did you apply? Should measure about .471. Quoted:
5.3g Winchester 231
230g Hornady FMJ-RN So you started with a Max load? How much crimp did you apply? Should measure about .471. I didn't want to speculate because I don't have access to data but everything he described sounded like TOO HOT to me. Motor1 |
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re-think how you reload. always work up a load. never start with maximum loads. good way of getting yourself in trouble. over time, you will develop enough knowledge to MAYBE make a decision like that, but definitely not as a new reloader.
why: not all bullets are identical to load data not all chambers are alike not all crimps are equal not all brass is the same not all primers are the same you may not be seating them to the same length temperature effects powder. people use different methods of measuring powder (dippers, volumetric drops, trickle using electric scales, trickle using beam scales), each having different rates of Error. It is because of all these variables, you work up a load from starting and going up. it gives you enough "cushion" that you shouldn't experience issues. |
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Quoted:
Im very new to reloading and have just recently loaded my first batch of 45. I went to the range today and had some pretty substantial (in my mind) problems while shooting. First, I was lucky if I could hit the ground. At 7-10 yards I could barely hit paper and was hitting about 6 inches low and 5 left. At times all over the place. Second, it was very uncomfortable on my trigger finger and actually hurt. Not sure if this is trigger slap or what. Keep in mind that this is a gun I'm very familiar with and usually shoot very well with. Also never had any pain in my trigger finger shooting. Any opinions or ideas would be great. Load and gun data are as follows: Full size Smith M&P 45 Winchester LP brass Winchester large pistol primers 5.3g Winchester 231 230g Hornady FMJ-RN Seated to 1.250 OAL then crimped using a Lee factory crimp die If the load was really 5.3 grains of W231 with a 230 FMJ that should have been a nice, manageable 45acp round. The options are 1- it wasn't 5.3 grains of W231 2 - It wasn't W231 Check your scale with a check weight. Make sure you are using your scale correctly. Make sure its W231. |
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Quoted:
If the load was really 5.3 grains of W231 with a 230 FMJ that should have been a nice, manageable 45acp round. The options are 1- it wasn't 5.3 grains of W231 2 - It wasn't W231 Check your scale with a check weight. Make sure you are using your scale correctly. Make sure its W231. Quoted:
Quoted:
Im very new to reloading and have just recently loaded my first batch of 45. I went to the range today and had some pretty substantial (in my mind) problems while shooting. First, I was lucky if I could hit the ground. At 7-10 yards I could barely hit paper and was hitting about 6 inches low and 5 left. At times all over the place. Second, it was very uncomfortable on my trigger finger and actually hurt. Not sure if this is trigger slap or what. Keep in mind that this is a gun I'm very familiar with and usually shoot very well with. Also never had any pain in my trigger finger shooting. Any opinions or ideas would be great. Load and gun data are as follows: Full size Smith M&P 45 Winchester LP brass Winchester large pistol primers 5.3g Winchester 231 230g Hornady FMJ-RN Seated to 1.250 OAL then crimped using a Lee factory crimp die If the load was really 5.3 grains of W231 with a 230 FMJ that should have been a nice, manageable 45acp round. The options are 1- it wasn't 5.3 grains of W231 2 - It wasn't W231 Check your scale with a check weight. Make sure you are using your scale correctly. Make sure its W231. +1 ^ That's a load I shoot 100 per week of . . . at a shorter OAL (1,230"). As described, it should NOT have caused the issues you encountered. |
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OP's powder charge is a mid range load. Look it up. Nothing jumps out to me with your load, it sounds fine. Did you happen to shoot a factory load to confirm your handload was a problem, not your pistol? Never heard of trigger slap with a 45 ACP, but I have not shot a M&P in that caliber. I shoot 1911's. Any more info you can provide? |
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Quoted:
OP's powder charge is a mid range load. Look it up. Nothing jumps out to me with your load, it sounds fine. Did you happen to shoot a factory load to confirm your handload was a problem, not your pistol? Never heard of trigger slap with a 45 ACP, but I have not shot a M&P in that caliber. I shoot 1911's. Any more info you can provide? I did on hodgdon's site: Winchester 231 .452" 1.200" 4.3 699 12,200 CUP 5.3 834 16,900 CUP |
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Is this your first pistol? Are you a good shooter with a pistol? Do you have a .22LR to balance yourself out? Many of us could shoot rifles fine in our youth, but when we could afford a pistol, or borrow one, the short sight radius and inexperience was quite humbling. Tell us more, grasshopper. We have been there. |
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Lyman 49, start 5.2 gs, max 5.8 grs. ah yes, another instance of conflicting data. does it say what length and bullet? I don't have my lyman manual handy (at work). I usually tend to lean towards the powder manufacturer's data, as (at least in my mind) I think they would probably have better facilities to test such things. i should note i don't use w231, so i don't have a good "feel" as to what the load should be. Now, if you wanted to know about AA2 or AA5 loads for 45acp or 9mm...... |
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Measure the diameter of the brass at the crimp. As already mentioned .471" +/- is a good starting point.
I think you have constricted the case mouth so much that the brass is entering too far into the chamber pinching the bullet between the case and chamber wall upon firing. This will cause high pressure, excessive recoil and poor accuracy. Your crimp should remove the bell you created so you could seat the bullet in the case mouth, no more. If the crimp is smaller than .469"/.470" in diameter it's too deep. |
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I looked it up in my book too and it says 5.3gr W231 is MAX.
What you describe sounds like a MAX load problem. Back down on the charge to about 4.8gr and go up from there. My own load with the same components is 4.5gr and it is extremely accurate. It's what I used for my CCW class a few years ago. It put 16 rnds in one ragged hole 2'' around at 7 yards. |
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Quoted:
Im very new to reloading and have just recently loaded my first batch of 45. I went to the range today and had some pretty substantial (in my mind) problems while shooting. First, I was lucky if I could hit the ground. At 7-10 yards I could barely hit paper and was hitting about 6 inches low and 5 left. At times all over the place. Second, it was very uncomfortable on my trigger finger and actually hurt. Not sure if this is trigger slap or what. Keep in mind that this is a gun I'm very familiar with and usually shoot very well with. Also never had any pain in my trigger finger shooting. Any opinions or ideas would be great. Load and gun data are as follows: Full size Smith M&P 45 Winchester LP brass Winchester large pistol primers 5.3g Winchester 231 230g Hornady FMJ-RN Seated to 1.250 OAL then crimped using a Lee factory crimp die I suggest you buy a box of jacketed 185s and a box of jacketed or cast 200 grainers and load up a few rounds of each. Refer to the Hodgdon loading data for W231, at starting loads and work up 3 or 4 tenths of a grain at a time until your accuracy tightens or recoil becomes uncomfortable, whichever is first. good luck - CW PS: According to Hodgdon, 5.3 grains is maximum for 230 grainers. Personally, I like Bluedot, a slower powder, with mag primers, for the heavy bullets, optimum velocity is about 840 fps. http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol |
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