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AL, USA
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Posted: 1/25/2015 8:01:49 PM EDT
[#1]
that's a nice chart ppknut
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Posted: 1/26/2015 12:35:04 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Captain_Howdy:
that's a nice chart ppknut Thanks. Sometimes I get a little intense with numbers. In 1967 I was subjected to "New Math" and ever since I've overcompensated in math because I really never learned properly. 
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AL, USA
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Posted: 1/27/2015 11:18:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer:
Ordered. Best price at Amazon. Also ordered an RCBS separator, since the FA one had some many bad reviews. If this sucks, I'm going to blame you guys and hate you forever. Can't speak for the media separators but I will give the FA Tumbler two thumbs up and an empty ammo can!!! 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/2/2015 4:49:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#4]
So I got my tumbler - and it's pretty neat! According to the instructions, you can wet tumble raw brass (prior to depriming or processing), and when so doing - skip the media. So I did that. The thing I'm wondering about now, is if that was such a good idea. Drying the cases seems to be going very slow, and I have real doubts that I'm going to be able to fully dry down into the primer area, in all those crannies just through the flash hole, with the spent primer still in.
Because don't I now have water trapped down in the primer area? Which leaves me wondering about corrosion. Espeically if I do long term storage. And also straight up ammo reliability for the pistol brass, if I run that through a progressive with water trapped under the spent primer, and the progressive will immediately primes after decapping. How do most people manage this? I have set brass out on a cloth, outside in the wind - and that didn't do much. So I brought it on, and set it by the fireplace, but heck, how do I even know the area under the spent primer is actually dry? I can see this might work for rifle brass, shortly before resizing and then retumbling with media soon after that. But for pistol brass, that you're going to store in bulk before doing progressive runs in a few months.... [Edit: cleaned up some of the sentence structures] |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2015 1:38:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Roll the brass in a towel after wet tumble to get most of the water off, then toss them in the dry tumbler with some car wax. They come out dry and no spots. When the primer pockets are not caked with media, they are dry....
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Posted: 2/3/2015 12:16:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer:
So I got my tumbler - and it's pretty neat! According to the instructions, you can wet tumble raw brass (prior to depriming or processing), and when so doing - skip the media. So I did that. The thing I'm wondering about now, is if that was such a good idea. Drying the cases seems to be going very slow, and I have real doubts that I'm going to be able to fully dry down into the primer area, in all those crannies just through the flash hole, with the spent primer still in. Because don't I now have water trapped down in the primer area? Which leaves me wondering about corrosion if I do long term storage, and reliability for the pistol brass, if I run that through a progressive which immediately primes after decapping. How do most people manage this? I can see this might work for rifle brass, shortly before resizing and then retumbling with media soon after that. But for pistol brass, that you're going to store in bulk before doing progressive runs in a few months.... You need to dry quickly if spent primers are still in the cases or you WILL get some corrosion, in my experience. I resize before cleaning, so primer pockets get clean. For really grungy range brass, I clean then resize and deprime, but then clean again. BTW, I have to use 2 45 acp cases of Lemishine in my batches, because our water is exceptionally hard |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2015 2:46:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KiowaCreekRaider:
You need to dry quickly if spent primers are still in the cases or you WILL get some corrosion, in my experience. I resize before cleaning, so primer pockets get clean. For really grungy range brass, I clean then resize and deprime, but then clean again. BTW, I have to use 2 45 acp cases of Lemishine in my batches, because our water is exceptionally hard Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KiowaCreekRaider:
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
So I got my tumbler - and it's pretty neat! According to the instructions, you can wet tumble raw brass (prior to depriming or processing), and when so doing - skip the media. So I did that. The thing I'm wondering about now, is if that was such a good idea. Drying the cases seems to be going very slow, and I have real doubts that I'm going to be able to fully dry down into the primer area, in all those crannies just through the flash hole, with the spent primer still in. Because don't I now have water trapped down in the primer area? Which leaves me wondering about corrosion if I do long term storage, and reliability for the pistol brass, if I run that through a progressive which immediately primes after decapping. How do most people manage this? I can see this might work for rifle brass, shortly before resizing and then retumbling with media soon after that. But for pistol brass, that you're going to store in bulk before doing progressive runs in a few months.... You need to dry quickly if spent primers are still in the cases or you WILL get some corrosion, in my experience. I resize before cleaning, so primer pockets get clean. For really grungy range brass, I clean then resize and deprime, but then clean again. BTW, I have to use 2 45 acp cases of Lemishine in my batches, because our water is exceptionally hard I'm beginning to think wet tumbling fired brass (prior to decapping) is just a bad idea, for anything other than rifle brass immediately before resizing that brass. Which doesn't work that great for me, since I tend to tumble recovered brass that range day, prior to storage. So... in effect, that means going back to dry media tumbling anyway, for the first tumble. Which kind of undermines the whole argument that wet tumbling is so much safer by eliminating dust, since the process still requires you to dry tumble... So that's a bummer. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/4/2015 3:24:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Blowout]
[#8]
Just so I don't get any blam for you buying the FA... you might try the following
If your like me you washed brass before dry tumbling to help keep the walnut clean. (I pick up brass too) Now I just use the wet tumbler w/only dawn and run for an hour, then towel dry and throw them in dry media with the top off for an hour or so w/Nu-finish or brass polish. I don't get much dust if any this way. Then lube, decap and size (trim, chamfer, debur rifle) before it goes back into the wet tumbler with the pins, Lemi, dawn. Towel dry and back in cob media with Nu-finish for the final polish/dry. If I could only have one tumbler I would go dry. Wet takes it to a whole other level though. |
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Posted: 2/4/2015 12:42:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Typically, my brass is not dirty enough to justify cleaning before resizing.
The brass I've purchased to convert to 300 BLK was nasty though, so I had to clean it first. I wet tumbled it, but could have vibrated it just as well. I just make sure to resize and deprime the same day I wet tumble. I wet tumble because I like the clean primer pockets and the shiny brass. My old eyes are having a harder time seeing dull brass. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 2/10/2015 11:59:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Looks like this thread needs a little inspiration.
Batch of 45 acp. Two 45 acp cases of Lemishine and a hearty squirt of Dawn DWL. I bet the Dawn folks would have never guessed their product was going to be so respected and used amongst men 
If I counted correctly I had approximately 500 pieces of brass. Ran for 3 hours. The results almost perfect. I wish the timer would allow for a 4 hour run time as I think a little extra time would be nice as I had just the tiniest bit of residue left in some primer pockets. Nothing worth re-running the batch over because as you can see a standard tumbler would never give results like this especially in just 3 hours. 
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Posted: 2/11/2015 12:58:02 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer:
I'm beginning to think wet tumbling fired brass (prior to decapping) is just a bad idea, for anything other than rifle brass immediately before resizing that brass. Which doesn't work that great for me, since I tend to tumble recovered brass that range day, prior to storage. So... in effect, that means going back to dry media tumbling anyway, for the first tumble. Which kind of undermines the whole argument that wet tumbling is so much safer by eliminating dust, since the process still requires you to dry tumble... So that's a bummer. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer:
Originally Posted By KiowaCreekRaider:
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
So I got my tumbler - and it's pretty neat! According to the instructions, you can wet tumble raw brass (prior to depriming or processing), and when so doing - skip the media. So I did that. The thing I'm wondering about now, is if that was such a good idea. Drying the cases seems to be going very slow, and I have real doubts that I'm going to be able to fully dry down into the primer area, in all those crannies just through the flash hole, with the spent primer still in. Because don't I now have water trapped down in the primer area? Which leaves me wondering about corrosion if I do long term storage, and reliability for the pistol brass, if I run that through a progressive which immediately primes after decapping. How do most people manage this? I can see this might work for rifle brass, shortly before resizing and then retumbling with media soon after that. But for pistol brass, that you're going to store in bulk before doing progressive runs in a few months.... You need to dry quickly if spent primers are still in the cases or you WILL get some corrosion, in my experience. I resize before cleaning, so primer pockets get clean. For really grungy range brass, I clean then resize and deprime, but then clean again. BTW, I have to use 2 45 acp cases of Lemishine in my batches, because our water is exceptionally hard I'm beginning to think wet tumbling fired brass (prior to decapping) is just a bad idea, for anything other than rifle brass immediately before resizing that brass. Which doesn't work that great for me, since I tend to tumble recovered brass that range day, prior to storage. So... in effect, that means going back to dry media tumbling anyway, for the first tumble. Which kind of undermines the whole argument that wet tumbling is so much safer by eliminating dust, since the process still requires you to dry tumble... So that's a bummer. I bought a single stage press and a universal decapper die. I clamp this to one of our stools and just decapped everything I had, dirty or "clean" from conventional cleaning. Yes my hands were a bit dirty, but honestly surprisingly it didn't take much time to do everything I had. Lots of brass, but honestly not too bad once you get started. Even with the additional work I still think it's worth it given how much less dust is liberate when cleaning the conventional way. Not to mention when loading my hands stay clean, normally they would get pretty dirty from the dust residue/ |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2015 7:51:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UltimaSE:
I bought a single stage press and a universal decapper die. I clamp this to one of our stools and just decapped everything I had, dirty or "clean" from conventional cleaning. Yes my hands were a bit dirty, but honestly surprisingly it didn't take much time to do everything I had. Lots of brass, but honestly not too bad once you get started. Even with the additional work I still think it's worth it given how much less dust is liberate when cleaning the conventional way. Not to mention when loading my hands stay clean, normally they would get pretty dirty from the dust residue/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By UltimaSE:
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
Originally Posted By KiowaCreekRaider:
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
So I got my tumbler - and it's pretty neat! According to the instructions, you can wet tumble raw brass (prior to depriming or processing), and when so doing - skip the media. So I did that. The thing I'm wondering about now, is if that was such a good idea. Drying the cases seems to be going very slow, and I have real doubts that I'm going to be able to fully dry down into the primer area, in all those crannies just through the flash hole, with the spent primer still in. Because don't I now have water trapped down in the primer area? Which leaves me wondering about corrosion if I do long term storage, and reliability for the pistol brass, if I run that through a progressive which immediately primes after decapping. How do most people manage this? I can see this might work for rifle brass, shortly before resizing and then retumbling with media soon after that. But for pistol brass, that you're going to store in bulk before doing progressive runs in a few months.... You need to dry quickly if spent primers are still in the cases or you WILL get some corrosion, in my experience. I resize before cleaning, so primer pockets get clean. For really grungy range brass, I clean then resize and deprime, but then clean again. BTW, I have to use 2 45 acp cases of Lemishine in my batches, because our water is exceptionally hard I'm beginning to think wet tumbling fired brass (prior to decapping) is just a bad idea, for anything other than rifle brass immediately before resizing that brass. Which doesn't work that great for me, since I tend to tumble recovered brass that range day, prior to storage. So... in effect, that means going back to dry media tumbling anyway, for the first tumble. Which kind of undermines the whole argument that wet tumbling is so much safer by eliminating dust, since the process still requires you to dry tumble... So that's a bummer. I bought a single stage press and a universal decapper die. I clamp this to one of our stools and just decapped everything I had, dirty or "clean" from conventional cleaning. Yes my hands were a bit dirty, but honestly surprisingly it didn't take much time to do everything I had. Lots of brass, but honestly not too bad once you get started. Even with the additional work I still think it's worth it given how much less dust is liberate when cleaning the conventional way. Not to mention when loading my hands stay clean, normally they would get pretty dirty from the dust residue/ I don't mind decapping either. I would much rather decap than I had go to the effort of running a primer pocket cleaning tool and like you say when you start your reloading processes at that point you are working with clean brass and that alleviates a lot of dirt and grime be it on your hands or entering your dies. Much better this way. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/11/2015 2:07:53 PM EDT
[#13]
The cheapest I have found is $147.00 from cheaper than dirt. Anyone know of a place selling this lower? Have been using a RCBS sonic but time for a wet tumbler.
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Posted: 2/11/2015 2:18:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bearcat24: The cheapest I have found is $147.00 from cheaper than dirt. Anyone know of a place selling this lower? Have been using a RCBS sonic but time for a wet tumbler. Don't turn this thread into a "where to find" thread, or it will be locked. Use the tacked thread. |
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USA
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Posted: 2/11/2015 6:53:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#15]
Post deleted, as it detracts from this thread. dryflash3
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AL, USA
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Posted: 2/11/2015 9:17:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuote deleted, as it detracts from this thread. dryflash3 Try not to harass the Mods in this thread please. We just want to compare notes about our Frankford Arsenal Tumblers...our failures and our success. This helps us all to have a better end product by helping each other shorten our learning curve. |
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Posted: 2/11/2015 11:00:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#17]
Quote HistoryPost deleted, as it detracts from this thread. dryflash3 |
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USA
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Posted: 2/12/2015 10:32:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dryflash3]
[#18]
Quote HistoryPost deleted, as it detracts from this thread. dryflash3 |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 2/15/2015 11:16:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GTO688]
[#19]
Back to the topic...
I picked up one of these tumbler a couple of weeks ago. I did have some trouble initially with the end caps leaking, but by paying some added attention to the positioning of the caps before tightening them down, this problem has disappeared. The first few batches of bras did not turn out as clean and shiny as I expected. I found that I had to play around with the detergent to Lemishine ratio, Now that the ratio has been figured out, every batch has turned out incredibly clean. The only thing that could possibly make me happier would be an easier way of separating the pins from the brass. One of the most impressive features of this tumbler is the capacity. Here is a picture of one batch of .223 that I ran last week. </img />  |
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/17/2015 3:50:11 PM EDT
[#20]
I got one in November and it sat in the box till after Christmas. After a little trial and error, I've landed on a method that works for me. If I'm running brass relatively free of debris, I'll resize and decap then tumble it with dawn and lemishine, strain out the bulk of the media then dump the brass into a Home Depot bucket and rinse the soap out. The agitating while rinsing seems to get the remainder of the media out. I then dump it in a towel and get the bulk of the water off then into sheet trays and put it on top of my furnace for a few hours. Next I trim, debur and chamfer and prime off press. This works for me. I do disassemble my resizing die every thousand rounds and clean in in an ultrasonic cleaner although it doesn't get really gummed up. I have a rotary media seperator on order to simplify the process a bit.
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Posted: 2/17/2015 9:14:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GTO688:
Back to the topic... I picked up one of these tumbler a couple of weeks ago. I did have some trouble initially with the end caps leaking, but by paying some added attention to the positioning of the caps before tightening them down, this problem has disappeared. The first few batches of bras did not turn out as clean and shiny as I expected. I found that I had to play around with the detergent to Lemishine ratio, Now that the ratio has been figured out, every batch has turned out incredibly clean. The only thing that could possibly make me happier would be an easier way of separating the pins from the brass. One of the most impressive features of this tumbler is the capacity. Here is a picture of one batch of .223 that I ran last week. </img />http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m595/gto688/Reloading%20forum/20150205_171955_resized.jpg To separate the pins from the brass I rinse/shake the pins/water out while in the tumbler x3. Then I pour the brass into the media separator that I got from midway. I spin that a few times in each direction and it's gotten pretty much everything out in terms of pins. |
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Posted: 6/12/2015 9:51:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Bump
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Posted: 6/12/2015 11:15:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Okay, I'm in.
Recieved mine from Amazon a couple days ago and have ran 10lbs of .40, 10lbs of .45ACP, and 20lbs of 9mm so far. The tumbler itself is fantastic. Quieter than I would have thought and seems well built. I have had my process down for awhile with my little Harbor Freight tumbler running 2lbs at a time. I only load pistol brass for now, I do NOT decap first, and after towel drying I throw them in the oven on low for 20-30 minutes to dry out the primer pockets. I kept with this same process for now, just scaled up for more brass. I figured with a 30lb capacity I could get quite a bit more. I put the 5lbs of pins, 5lbs of .40 brass, and filled water to just the top of the brass. 16lbs. Dumped another 5lbs of brass in, and again, water just to the top of the brass, and it came in right at 25lbs. I put in four cases full of Lemshine and three cap fulls of Wash and Wax. After 2hrs I looked in the side ports and it looked pretty clean, so I went ahead and rinsed. They came out looking great. 5x bigger load on my first try, so I was pretty happy. 
I would encourage you to try less water and more brass if you want to increase efficiency. The water is DARK while draining but the brass looks fantastic. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 12:39:45 AM EDT
[#24]
That's some nice bling.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2015 9:19:19 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm waiting for my Harbor Freight unit to shoot craps so I can get one of these. I've learned how to finish the job though.
Get a The Frankford Arsenal Media Separator. It's nothing but a colander, but it's very deep with steep sides so that it fits far down inside a 5 gal plastic bucket. Dump the finished brass and SS media in and stir it around to separate 95% of the pins. Then shake up and down for 30 seconds. That will get all of the pins out except for three or four. Because the separator is so deep, pins will rarely escape like they will from a kitchen colander. Best $18 you can spend if you tumble with SS media. All other equipment is options, but this particular media separator is really the outstanding piece of equipment when it comes to SS media tumbling; cheap too. Then dump the brass into another bucket and wash. You might find two or three pins remaining which you get with a magnet. Dump the brass into a salad spinner basket. Shake off most of the water. The bulk of the pins are in the bottom of the first bucket. Pour the water and pins through a kitchen sieve over the now-empty second bucket. Then dump the captured pins into your pin storage container. Again, a few will need to be captured by magnet, but not many. Give your brass a minute of spinning and dump them into a towel. Rub them a bit and dump them into a metal pan. Go over them for 30 seconds with a heat gun or hair dryer. Let rest for two minutes and do it again. Your brass should be dry. If you prefer, you can dump them into a mesh bag and trap the bag in the door of your clothes dryer. Thirty minutes or so on low will do a good job of drying the brass. Timing will vary depending on your equipment, but the process is quick, easy, and works well. No water spots either. The star of the show is the Frandford Media Separator. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 12:19:25 PM EDT
[#26]
The separator is going to be on my list. The wife and I were talking about putting a utility sink in the basement, which would be perfect for this.
As it stands, I could probably use that in the bathtub. I love the idea of the mesh bag in the dryer. She's already happy because anytime I need to clean some brass I will empty out the kitchen sinks of dishes, she would welcome the help with the laundry too 
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Posted: 6/13/2015 2:04:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ppknut]
[#27]
AJE........For some info on capacities of various calibers, take a look at the table I posted at the bottom of Page 2 of this thread. I need to work up some more calibers and update the table.
Regarding the Frankford media separator, I had little or no luck using it because the 'basket' and shields kept moving around on the rim of the bucket while I tried to spin. The the basket would get hung up on the bucket and made smooth operation nearly impossible. It was very awkward for me. I did not get Frankford's bucket, only the separator. Perhaps the Frankford bucket works better than my homer bucket?? I went back to my Dillon large separator and it worked a lot better. Just me I guess. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 2:25:14 PM EDT
[#28]
I haven't seen one in person but I thought the Frankford bucket has a cutout on it for the basket so it would sit in the notches and spin freely. Could be an assumption on my part but one of the videos seems to show it working pretty smoothly.
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Posted: 6/13/2015 2:29:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Here's the video I was thinking of... skip to 1:30.
Looks like the supports for the spinning part clip onto the edges of the bucket. I can't see the bucket itself making that much of a difference. 
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Posted: 6/13/2015 5:41:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
Here's the video I was thinking of... skip to 1:30. Looks like the supports for the spinning part clip onto the edges of the bucket. I can't see the bucket itself making that much of a difference. You are correct. I would advise you to pass on FA separator. The bucket is the same as any 5 gal bucket. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2015 6:28:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mozella]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
I haven't seen one in person but I thought the Frankford bucket has a cutout on it for the basket so it would sit in the notches and spin freely. Could be an assumption on my part but one of the videos seems to show it working pretty smoothly. Um............ I'm guessing good video editing. A spinning basket media separator might be just fine for dry tumbling, but for SS you want the Frankfort colander type. It's called "Frankford Arsenal Standard Media Separator " It has no moving parts. It's simply a straight sided colander which fits down into a Home Depot orange 5 gal plastic bucket. The advantage is the holes are just the right size and you can shake it without lifting it up too high. That way the pins fall into the bucket and don't jump out into your sink. Nearly indestructible, it's something you can pass down to your grandchildren. Forget the spinning basket. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/13/2015 7:15:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnnydjr:
You are correct. I would advise you to pass on FA separator. The bucket is the same as any 5 gal bucket. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnnydjr:
Originally Posted By AJE:
Here's the video I was thinking of... skip to 1:30. Looks like the supports for the spinning part clip onto the edges of the bucket. I can't see the bucket itself making that much of a difference. You are correct. I would advise you to pass on FA separator. The bucket is the same as any 5 gal bucket. I went with the RCBS separator system instead, and like it. Basically the same cage type concept, but rather than put into a 5 gal bucket, it has it's own housing that has a cover that flips down over the whole thing. This way no media for sure is going to go flying. More handy, it's a lot LOT quieter with the lid. If you really do want a 5 gal bucket with it, then it's designed to sit inside the top of a 5 gallon bucket if you want, and you can cut off the bottom of the housing. 
As to the concept itself, I still am refining my usage. I like the product from wet tumbling, but it takes a little thought and effort to grove out how to do all the various steps efficiently in your own home-setting. There are claims (maybe BS. probably true) that the ultra clean necks gall bullets upon seating, and affect accuracy. The only people I'm seeing complain about this in actuality are F-class shooters - people fixating on sub-MOA performance. It could be heresay, but there's enough behind the claims that maybe. That said, for the rest of us mortals, I doubt it matters. There are lots of shooters who care about accuracy here, who still seem satisfied. Nonetheless, to help with that I am going to start incorporating a shot or two of turtle wax with the tumbling mix, which should provide a very light lubrication affect on the necks to help with this. Well... in theory. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 8:07:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: johnnydjr]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer:
I went with the RCBS separator system instead, and like it. Basically the same cage type concept, but rather than put into a 5 gal bucket, it has it's own housing that has a cover that flips down over the whole thing. This way no media for sure is going to go flying. More handy, it's a lot LOT quieter with the lid. If you really do want a 5 gal bucket with it, then it's designed to sit inside the top of a 5 gallon bucket if you want, and you can cut off the bottom of the housing. http://shop.rcbs.com/getattachment/Products/Case-Preparation/Case-Cleaning/Rotary-Case-Media-Separator/rc_87076_rotarycasemediaseparater_r.jpg.aspx?maxsidesize=700 As to the concept itself, I still am refining my usage. I like the product from wet tumbling, but it takes a little thought and effort to grove out how to do all the various steps efficiently in your own home-setting. There are claims (maybe BS. probably true) that the ultra clean necks gall bullets upon seating, and affect accuracy. The only people I'm seeing complain about this in actuality are F-class shooters - people fixating on sub-MOA performance. It could be heresay, but there's enough behind the claims that maybe. That said, for the rest of us mortals, I doubt it matters. There are lots of shooters who care about accuracy here, who still seem satisfied. Nonetheless, to help with that I am going to start incorporating a shot or two of turtle wax with the tumbling mix, which should provide a very light lubrication affect on the necks to help with this. Well... in theory. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer:
Originally Posted By johnnydjr:
Originally Posted By AJE:
Here's the video I was thinking of... skip to 1:30. Looks like the supports for the spinning part clip onto the edges of the bucket. I can't see the bucket itself making that much of a difference. You are correct. I would advise you to pass on FA separator. The bucket is the same as any 5 gal bucket. I went with the RCBS separator system instead, and like it. Basically the same cage type concept, but rather than put into a 5 gal bucket, it has it's own housing that has a cover that flips down over the whole thing. This way no media for sure is going to go flying. More handy, it's a lot LOT quieter with the lid. If you really do want a 5 gal bucket with it, then it's designed to sit inside the top of a 5 gallon bucket if you want, and you can cut off the bottom of the housing. http://shop.rcbs.com/getattachment/Products/Case-Preparation/Case-Cleaning/Rotary-Case-Media-Separator/rc_87076_rotarycasemediaseparater_r.jpg.aspx?maxsidesize=700 As to the concept itself, I still am refining my usage. I like the product from wet tumbling, but it takes a little thought and effort to grove out how to do all the various steps efficiently in your own home-setting. There are claims (maybe BS. probably true) that the ultra clean necks gall bullets upon seating, and affect accuracy. The only people I'm seeing complain about this in actuality are F-class shooters - people fixating on sub-MOA performance. It could be heresay, but there's enough behind the claims that maybe. That said, for the rest of us mortals, I doubt it matters. There are lots of shooters who care about accuracy here, who still seem satisfied. Nonetheless, to help with that I am going to start incorporating a shot or two of turtle wax with the tumbling mix, which should provide a very light lubrication affect on the necks to help with this. Well... in theory. The key to easily separate the pins from the cases is to do it under running water or do it partially submerged. I think the RCBS is a better option. |
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Posted: 6/13/2015 9:05:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mozella:
Um............ I'm guessing good video editing. A spinning basket media separator might be just fine for dry tumbling, but for SS you want the Frankfort colander type. It's called "Frankford Arsenal Standard Media Separator " It has no moving parts. It's simply a straight sided colander which fits down into a Home Depot orange 5 gal plastic bucket. The advantage is the holes are just the right size and you can shake it without lifting it up too high. That way the pins fall into the bucket and don't jump out into your sink. Nearly indestructible, it's something you can pass down to your grandchildren. Forget the spinning basket. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mozella:
Originally Posted By AJE:
I haven't seen one in person but I thought the Frankford bucket has a cutout on it for the basket so it would sit in the notches and spin freely. Could be an assumption on my part but one of the videos seems to show it working pretty smoothly. Um............ I'm guessing good video editing. A spinning basket media separator might be just fine for dry tumbling, but for SS you want the Frankfort colander type. It's called "Frankford Arsenal Standard Media Separator " It has no moving parts. It's simply a straight sided colander which fits down into a Home Depot orange 5 gal plastic bucket. The advantage is the holes are just the right size and you can shake it without lifting it up too high. That way the pins fall into the bucket and don't jump out into your sink. Nearly indestructible, it's something you can pass down to your grandchildren. Forget the spinning basket. I guess that will make it easy... I have one I used to use for the dry media. For that matter I have the shell separators that would function the same way. I know from using my wife's small kitchen colander that the pins will easily fall through as long as they are submerged. I just need to get a shorter bucket so I don't need to use five gallons of water for it each time. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 8:48:09 AM EDT
[#35]
I use a Rotating RCBS knock-off from Cabelas and it works fantastically.
All I have to do is fill it with water half way up the basket, dump brass and pins in and close it. A few cranks later the pins are all at the bottom of the container. I HATE hand picking brass out of colander separators, it is so slow. The trick is the brass has to be under water for the pins to fall out or the surface tension acts like glue. |
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Posted: 6/14/2015 9:44:24 PM EDT
[#36]
This one?
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Posted: 6/14/2015 11:21:10 PM EDT
[#37]
Yep that is it!
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2015 1:11:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Just a note. I don't use the F.A.R.T., I have a homebuilt unit.
The general rule for how much brass to add is no more than 80% or the pin weight. 70% is better. So for 5 lbs of pins, you should load no more than 4 lbs of brass. That's 400 40, about 320 45 and 450 to 500 9mm. They will still clean larger amounts of brass, it just takes a lot longer. |
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Posted: 6/15/2015 3:28:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Not sure how I missed this thread earlier.
I was an early adopter, buying mine in June of last year. I've run close to 10,000 cases through it to this point, and I love it. I tend to work in 1 gallon ziploc increments of 223 brass -- that's about the capacity of the tumbler, and about what my attention span allows me to do other tasks on in one sitting (resizing, swaging, etc.). I do not wet tumble pistol brass anymore, because I found it gets it TOO clean -- ruined a sizing die this way -- the lack of lubricant on the cases galled up the carbide ring and would scratch the brass. For rifle brass, I dry tumble, process (resize/swage/trim/chamfer/deburr), then wet tumble. I use the media it came with, a ziploc full of brass, and enough hot water to cover the brass. Quick squirt of soap, ~1tsp Lemishine, and let it run for 2hr. I found 2hr to be the sweet spot -- 3hr didn't buy me anything, and 1hr had noticeably dirtier primer pockets. |
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Posted: 6/15/2015 4:47:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AJE]
[#40]
Originally Posted By Jimk60:
Just a note. I don't use the F.A.R.T., I have a homebuilt unit. The general rule for how much brass to add is no more than 80% or the pin weight. 70% is better. So for 5 lbs of pins, you should load no more than 4 lbs of brass. That's 400 40, about 320 45 and 450 to 500 9mm. They will still clean larger amounts of brass, it just takes a lot longer. As far as the acronym... 
I disagree totally on the pin weight vs. brass weight. I have no complaints after trying 10lbs of brass with half the weight in pins with three different calibers. When I used my smaller tumbler I used equal weight of pins and brass. The whole point of the process is to clean brass so I see no reason not to get the biggest batch size possible, so long as the results aren't diminished. And the brass looked a-okay to me.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2015 8:37:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnnydjr:
The key to easily separate the pins from the cases is to do it under running water or do it partially submerged. I think the RCBS is a better option. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By johnnydjr:
Originally Posted By lazyengineer:
Originally Posted By johnnydjr:
Originally Posted By AJE:
Here's the video I was thinking of... skip to 1:30. Looks like the supports for the spinning part clip onto the edges of the bucket. I can't see the bucket itself making that much of a difference. You are correct. I would advise you to pass on FA separator. The bucket is the same as any 5 gal bucket. I went with the RCBS separator system instead, and like it. Basically the same cage type concept, but rather than put into a 5 gal bucket, it has it's own housing that has a cover that flips down over the whole thing. This way no media for sure is going to go flying. More handy, it's a lot LOT quieter with the lid. If you really do want a 5 gal bucket with it, then it's designed to sit inside the top of a 5 gallon bucket if you want, and you can cut off the bottom of the housing. http://shop.rcbs.com/getattachment/Products/Case-Preparation/Case-Cleaning/Rotary-Case-Media-Separator/rc_87076_rotarycasemediaseparater_r.jpg.aspx?maxsidesize=700 As to the concept itself, I still am refining my usage. I like the product from wet tumbling, but it takes a little thought and effort to grove out how to do all the various steps efficiently in your own home-setting. There are claims (maybe BS. probably true) that the ultra clean necks gall bullets upon seating, and affect accuracy. The only people I'm seeing complain about this in actuality are F-class shooters - people fixating on sub-MOA performance. It could be heresay, but there's enough behind the claims that maybe. That said, for the rest of us mortals, I doubt it matters. There are lots of shooters who care about accuracy here, who still seem satisfied. Nonetheless, to help with that I am going to start incorporating a shot or two of turtle wax with the tumbling mix, which should provide a very light lubrication affect on the necks to help with this. Well... in theory. The key to easily separate the pins from the cases is to do it under running water or do it partially submerged. I think the RCBS is a better option. I haven't really noticed that. I run it without immersion in the RCBS separator and turn it about 45 seconds or so. A few will stick across .30 cal mouths (geniuses cut it to that very length). But aside from wedging there across the mouth every 30 rounds or so, that's it. I then air dry over a couple days, dump back into the media-separator and turn again just to be sure, then visually inspect. Then trim in the Giraud. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2015 10:52:11 PM EDT
[#42]
I know this thread is over the FA wet tumbler but does anyone out there have the FA hand deprimer? If so, have you broken a depriming pin and had to replace it? It states that it uses a .08 universal depriming pin. i used the trusty ole Google, typed in ".08 depriming pin" and it came up with Lee. The ends look a bit different, does anyone know if the Lee works?
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Posted: 6/15/2015 11:50:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheyCallMeNasty: I know this thread is over the FA wet tumbler but does anyone out there have the FA hand deprimer? If so, have you broken a depriming pin and had to replace it? It states that it uses a .08 universal depriming pin. i used the trusty ole Google, typed in ".08 depriming pin" and it came up with Lee. The ends look a bit different, does anyone know if the Lee works? Welcome to Arfcom and the Reloading Forum. We like to stay on topic in the tech forums like this one. So please start your own thread and ask your question, don't hijack this thread. Thanks. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2015 12:49:55 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
I use a Rotating RCBS knock-off from Cabelas and it works fantastically. All I have to do is fill it with water half way up the basket, dump brass and pins in and close it. A few cranks later the pins are all at the bottom of the container. I HATE hand picking brass out of colander separators, it is so slow. The trick is the brass has to be under water for the pins to fall out or the surface tension acts like glue. Exactly this! Spinning in water also washes off the last of the soap and dirt. After spinning the brass under water I take the basket out and pour the water with the pins out through a paint strainer bag which fits perfectly over the bottom of the container (no magnets needed). You can then put the brass in the basket back into the empty container and spin it one more time to throw off any water from the brass just like a lettuce spinner. Then just air dry the brass on a towel and your done. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2015 10:02:48 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
As far as the acronym...
I disagree totally on the pin weight vs. brass weight. I have no complaints after trying 10lbs of brass with half the weight in pins with three different calibers. When I used my smaller tumbler I used equal weight of pins and brass. The whole point of the process is to clean brass so I see no reason not to get the biggest batch size possible, so long as the results aren't diminished. And the brass looked a-okay to me. http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/arfcomaje/Guns/20150610_144230_zpsxeu4s7tz.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJE:
Originally Posted By Jimk60:
Just a note. I don't use the F.A.R.T., I have a homebuilt unit. The general rule for how much brass to add is no more than 80% or the pin weight. 70% is better. So for 5 lbs of pins, you should load no more than 4 lbs of brass. That's 400 40, about 320 45 and 450 to 500 9mm. They will still clean larger amounts of brass, it just takes a lot longer. As far as the acronym...
I disagree totally on the pin weight vs. brass weight. I have no complaints after trying 10lbs of brass with half the weight in pins with three different calibers. When I used my smaller tumbler I used equal weight of pins and brass. The whole point of the process is to clean brass so I see no reason not to get the biggest batch size possible, so long as the results aren't diminished. And the brass looked a-okay to me. http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/arfcomaje/Guns/20150610_144230_zpsxeu4s7tz.jpg At the ratio's I mentioned above, I can get clean blingy brass at 2 hours, but the SP primer pockets are only about 80%, with some debris sill remaining in the corners. If I go to larger amounts, say 10 lbs of brass and 10 lbs of pins, it may take me 4 hours to get the same results. How long did you have to run the Franklin tumbler to get them that clean? |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 10:25:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AJE]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jimk60:
At the ratio's I mentioned above, I can get clean blingy brass at 2 hours, but the SP primer pockets are only about 80%, with some debris sill remaining in the corners. If I go to larger amounts, say 10 lbs of brass and 10 lbs of pins, it may take me 4 hours to get the same results. How long did you have to run the Franklin tumbler to get them that clean? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jimk60:
Originally Posted By AJE:
Originally Posted By Jimk60:
Just a note. I don't use the F.A.R.T., I have a homebuilt unit. The general rule for how much brass to add is no more than 80% or the pin weight. 70% is better. So for 5 lbs of pins, you should load no more than 4 lbs of brass. That's 400 40, about 320 45 and 450 to 500 9mm. They will still clean larger amounts of brass, it just takes a lot longer. As far as the acronym...
I disagree totally on the pin weight vs. brass weight. I have no complaints after trying 10lbs of brass with half the weight in pins with three different calibers. When I used my smaller tumbler I used equal weight of pins and brass. The whole point of the process is to clean brass so I see no reason not to get the biggest batch size possible, so long as the results aren't diminished. And the brass looked a-okay to me. http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p505/arfcomaje/Guns/20150610_144230_zpsxeu4s7tz.jpg At the ratio's I mentioned above, I can get clean blingy brass at 2 hours, but the SP primer pockets are only about 80%, with some debris sill remaining in the corners. If I go to larger amounts, say 10 lbs of brass and 10 lbs of pins, it may take me 4 hours to get the same results. How long did you have to run the Franklin tumbler to get them that clean? 2-3hrs... I think only 2 on the first load. However, the primers are still in, as I don't take the extra time necessary to decap everything before tumbling. I make sure they get some heat after towel drying to dry out the primer pockets. I may decap when I start loading rifle rounds but I don't believe it's worth the time for me to do it for the calibers I load now. |
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Posted: 6/16/2015 10:27:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL:
I use a Rotating RCBS knock-off from Cabelas and it works fantastically. Oh, and I was on a road trip today... Fin Feather and Fur had one of these on the shelf so I picked it up. Looks like I'll give it a try tomorrow. |
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Posted: 6/17/2015 4:04:20 PM EDT
[#48]
New development.... today I ran another 10lb of 9mm and forgot to put the pins in the drum.
They didn't turn out terribly different. |
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Posted: 6/17/2015 4:36:05 PM EDT
[#49]
I'd love to see the 'no steel pins' brass. Any photos?
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Posted: 6/17/2015 8:04:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ppknut:
I'd love to see the 'no steel pins' brass. Any photos? Yes, I'm not with them right now but will get one later tonight. Honestly they look about the same, but I have since done another run with half of the pins and the water came out noticeably dirtier. I think the pins really help clean the inside of the case as much as the outside, whereas the other cases only help to clean the outside of the cases. |
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