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Posted: 7/4/2014 2:59:57 PM EDT
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Hi guys, need some help here. My cousin is in the process of putting together an order for an XL650 and I am helping him since he is new to reloading. Unfortunately, I reload on a single stage press so while I understand most of whats needed to set up a 650, there are a few details I need filled in. He will be purchasing the RT1200B trimmer and appropriate trim die. While using the RT1200B on his case prep tool head, will he also need to install a resizing die first? COSteve's thread on his reloading process mentions using a resizing die before the trimmer but Brian Enos' page describing the trimmer states the trim die also resizes the case.
Also, where does a powder die fit in? Is it included with the caliber conversion kit? My cousin plans to buy caliber conversions kits for 9mm and .223 and deluxe quick change kits for both, plus an extra tool head for .223 brass prep. I'm going to suggest he also buy a Lee Deluxe pistol die set for 9mm (I assume he won't be using the powder die) and a Lee universal de-capping die and Lee FCD for his .223 loading tool head. What other dies will he need for .223 besides a bullet seating die? We're trying to see if he can just buy only the dies he will need for his setup versus buying a Dillon die set which is more expensive and that will have die(s) he won't use. We've come to the conclusion that a powder check die won't be necessary. The idea is to visually confirm powder charge. |
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If he's getting the deluxe quick change kits (the ones with the toolheads and powder funnels), they'll come with powder dies. The powder funnel (which is caliber-specific and goes inside the dillon powder die) will come with the caliber conversion kit. For pistol, a powder check die isn't generally needed, as you can easily look in the case. I've tailored my bulk rifle loads to fill the case enough that I can see the powder in it as well, and I look in EVERY case. An LED for under the toolhead is really useful for this. Outside of a 223 sizing die and a seating die, he should be set. Crimping on rifle rounds isn't strictly necessary, so long as sufficient neck tension is established.
Sounds like he's headed for a good setup. 
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For 9mm, he will want to have the powder die which should come in the caliber conversion kit. He will also want the powder check station. The powder check has a rod that goes into the case when you pull the handle on the press. The rod is pushed up by the case and powder. You set the alarm based on the charge. If the charge is too high or too low you get an audible alarm. Keeps you from making squib rounds or kaboom rounds. You can visually check.....but when you see how fast pistol reloads on a 650 you won't want to. (full disclosure: I have a 550, and have a couple friends that reload on 650's)
Each Dillon powder die screws into the tool head and the powder measure attaches to the top of the die. COSteve's post mentions that you can resize with the trimmer. Most people resize with a separate die because the say it's more accurate: • Dillon Decapper / Resizer die in #1 - I resize and decap at this stage
• Dillon Trimmer in #3 - I have the die set to just touch the case but trim at the proper length Dillon's website says that the trimmer attaches to the top of a special size/trim die, so yes, you can size and trim in one step. (Haven't bought one myself. Planning on spending less money on the World's Finest Trimmer by Little Crow Works.) http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/catid/8/pid/25244/Rapid_Trim_1500___1200_B_Size_Trim_Die http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23636/catid/8/Dillon__039_s_Rapid_Trim_1200B_Case_Trimmer EDIT TO ADD: For pistol, consider the case feeder and bullet feeder for 9mm. When I get a 650 to add to my 550, that will be my setup. Also, I bought the Dillon dies for 223 when I bought the press. They work fine. Later I got a gift certificate for Redding and picked up the 223 NM die set. Having a micrometer on the seating die is AWESOME. I can switch from 52/53 gr to 55gr to 62 gr to 69 gr to 77gr in a flash.....wish I had one on the sizing die! Most any die will work in the press, so get what you prefer for each. |
| I use a Dillon sizing die to size the cases about 75% and de-cap them before they go to the 1200B. It finishes the sizing and trims them. You could just use a Lee Universal de-cap die in station 1. But I had the sizing die and the universal die is in station 1 of my loading tool head to clear primer pockets. |
| We batted around the usefulness of a powder check die and decided against it. He will be going slow and visually inspecting each case, at least at first. It sounds like between the deluxe quick change kit and caliber specific conversion kit he won't need to purchase any additional powder die, which is good. Is there any provision on the RT1200B trim die to decap and/or expand the case mouth? I'm assuming no since it looks like people either use a universal decapper in station one with an expander after the trimmer or just use a size/de-capping die in station one. |
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Quoted: All your questions can be answered with a painless phone call to Brian Enos.  He's the only person you should buy Dillon products from anyway! |
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The selling feature on the XL650 is the powder check die. Don't omit it if you do not have to.
Eyeballs are a first defense but things happen and a automated alarm is hard to ignore. I highly recommend a Dillon carbide sizing die, buy once cry once, makes sizing so much smoother and worth the cost. Unless your hogging down uncut .223 cases to 300BLK the RT1200 is fine. This is how I roll now on .223/5.56MM .223 setup on xl650 My set-up is as follows. . . LUBE Brass with shine version of DCL Brass prep tool head Station 1 - Dillon .223 Carbide Sizing/Decapping Die sized to 85% Station 2 - Empty naked to the wind Station 3 - Dillon 1200b Trimmer with custom insert pin and attach vacuum. Trim die set to size the other 15% which makes sure the case does not spin. Station 4 - Empty naked to the wind Station 5 - Lyman M Die -set to knock of any inside burr and put a extreme very slight flare in less than .002 Wet Tumble Cleans off any lube out side and more importantly gets ride of all lube from the inside of the case necks, also makes the cases look brand new. Hornady pocket ream primer pockets if necessary. Loading tool head Station 1 - Lee Universal Decapping Die to clear flash hole of any debri as added insurance. Station 2 - Seat primer, drop powder Station 3 - Dillon Powder Check Station 4 - Redding Competition Pro Seating Die Station 4 - Lee Factory Crimp Die to take out the slight flare from the M die and employ a slight crimp. |
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Quoted:
first, who is Brian Enos and what is his expertise ? i went to his web site and saw that white primer filler device, i want one, where can i get one ? Go to his web site and forum and read his bio.. All the info you need to know about Brian can be found there. |
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Quoted:
first, who is Brian Enos and what is his expertise ? i went to his web site and saw that white primer filler device, i want one, where can i get one ? Brian Enos, now retired, is one of the best IPSC / steel challenge shooters on the planet He, and Rob Leatham were sponsored by DILLON and now he's a dealer He's an amazing shooter, and a hell of a good guy 
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Quoted: I have both a 550 and 650. try not to get dillon dies...i don't think they are worth imo. i use a mx of lee, rcbs, and forrestor dies from experience. Eta... I have a 650 but will use my LNL SS for the .300 BLK.
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If you order off the Enos website, you can get things Dillon doesn't offer like the deluxe quick change kit. All the stuff you need, non of the stuff you don't need in a caliber change.
If you do have questions an email to Brian will be quickly answered. I had one friend that some how screwed up his order for a 650 and Brian called him and asked him what he was trying to accomplish. Brian then fixed his order and sent it out the next day. |
| Well, we got my cousin's 650 all setup and wow, am I impressed. Case prep on bottle necked cartridges was particularly astonishing. The bastard has no idea what pains people go through trimming cases. Anyhow, having run some rounds on his 650 has me wanting my own now. However, I will need to be able to trim .300 Blackout so I will be getting the RT 1500 trimmer. I have a couple questions about it. First, with the RT 1500, do cases need to be cut down before resizing or can it handle trimming all that excess material off? Also, for those of you that need to trim multiple calibers, do you have case prep tool heads for each one or just one dedicated trim tool head that you swap the dies out on? |
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Quoted:
Well, we got my cousin's 650 all setup and wow, am I impressed. Case prep on bottle necked cartridges was particularly astonishing. The bastard has no idea what pains people go through trimming cases. Anyhow, having run some rounds on his 650 has me wanting my own now. However, I will need to be able to trim .300 Blackout so I will be getting the RT 1500 trimmer. I have a couple questions about it. First, with the RT 1500, do cases need to be cut down before resizing or can it handle trimming all that excess material off? Also, for those of you that need to trim multiple calibers, do you have case prep tool heads for each one or just one dedicated trim tool head that you swap the dies out on? Bump for input. |
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Quoted:
I have both a 550 and 650. try not to get dillon dies...i don't think they are worth imo. i use a mx of lee, rcbs, and forrestor dies from experience. Quoted:
I have both a 550 and 650. try not to get dillon dies...i don't think they are worth imo. i use a mx of lee, rcbs, and forrestor dies from experience. After upgrading to the 650, I found that using Dillon dies for pistol brass helped out a lot. I had to slow down my down stroke or I was dinging cases with the hornady dies. It could have been a poor adjustment somewhere during my early use of it, but the problem was 100% solved by switching to Dillon dies. For rifle though, I have four brands and they all work. Quoted:
Well, we got my cousin's 650 all setup and wow, am I impressed. Case prep on bottle necked cartridges was particularly astonishing. The bastard has no idea what pains people go through trimming cases. Anyhow, having run some rounds on his 650 has me wanting my own now. However, I will need to be able to trim .300 Blackout so I will be getting the RT 1500 trimmer. I have a couple questions about it. First, with the RT 1500, do cases need to be cut down before resizing or can it handle trimming all that excess material off? Also, for those of you that need to trim multiple calibers, do you have case prep tool heads for each one or just one dedicated trim tool head that you swap the dies out on? The RT 1500 is supposed to be made for up to half inch of material removal per stroke. This should be able to take care of blackout with no problem. I'm actually looking to upgrade my 1200 here shortly myself. While a little spendy, I have all of my rifle size/trim dies on their own tool head, and rifle loading on another. Pistol calibers have all size/load on one. I have 11 tool heads. This way my caliber swaps don't involve any die adjustment. The only adjustment that I need to play with is the trimmer (it has it's own locknut), but I have an idea to eliminate that too... The other popular option is to buy Hornady lock rings. You can tighten them down so that every time you slide them into the tool head, they are at the correct height. I started out this way, but quickly wanted to upgrade to a faster method. I had each tool head laser engraved with caliber and purpose, and I'm slowly working on crafting aluminum mounting posts for each one, instead of buying tons of tool head stands. |
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Quoted: Well, we got my cousin's 650 all setup and wow, am I impressed. Case prep on bottle necked cartridges was particularly astonishing. The bastard has no idea what pains people go through trimming cases. Anyhow, having run some rounds on his 650 has me wanting my own now. However, I will need to be able to trim .300 Blackout so I will be getting the RT 1500 trimmer. I have a couple questions about it. First, with the RT 1500, do cases need to be cut down before resizing or can it handle trimming all that excess material off? Also, for those of you that need to trim multiple calibers, do you have case prep tool heads for each one or just one dedicated trim tool head that you swap the dies out on? To answer your second question, Dillon came out with the 1500 trimmer because people were burning out the 1200 trimmers doing 300 BO (I call it case forming). There are 2 steps for 300 BO trimming from .223 cases. If its shot once brass, First size the case and then trim the first step of 300 BO. Then you should be good to go - the case will be sized and ready. |
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