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Posted: 5/6/2014 7:17:49 PM EDT
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Not sure if this area or the suppressor area would be best for this thread but it seems to be a reloading question... Pistol: S&W M&P CORE 9MM 4.25" Barrel Suppressor: SWR Octane 45 Brass: New Starline 9mm Primer: CCI 500 or Federal Bullets: Rainier 147grain plated for now Powder: Have Winchester WST and Titegroup ( this is what I am not sure of ) I have been handloading for a year now and in a few months will have my new suppressor in hand. I want to make some good plinking subsonic loads. I also need a chrony soon I know. I am pretty well set on the components I would like to use as I can easily obtain them locally ( brass, primer, bullets ). The powder on the other hand is tricky to find so it has been hard to settle on one. The titegroup and WST I use for 38 special and have a good stock of. Would like to use it and see some 9mm sub loads for them. My real question now: Is there a powder that works really well for suppressed shooting that I should try to track down that is good for my type load? I understand that there will not be one single load or powder to rule them all but just not sure where to start or what to look for. Need someone with experience to help me out here. Also, would a lower pressure round make less noise suppressed or is there other things at work here that I am missing? Any resources pertaining to suppressed hand loading would be of much help also. 
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I use 3.5 gr of Titegroup with a 147gr precision delta fmj and either wolf small primers or cci small pistol primers. Works. Sounds good. 930 fps out of my glock 34.
Lots works. Have tried some loads with Unique and 800x that worked but my 800x loads were too hot. I would like to try WSF VV N340 and True Blue when I get a chance for no real reason. The titegroup works good enough I am happy until I run out and will buy more. |
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Sandlewood, |
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Quoted:
I cant remember off the top of my head but supposedly one of the vihtavuori powders was actually designed for 9mm 147 subsonic use. That being said I know a ton of people that run titegroup both suppressed and unsuppressed with good results. Probably n320. Titegroup is a great powder, but it burns really hot in comparison to Viht 320 (Titegroup being a double base powder (high nitro content) versus the single base n320). |
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Quoted: Probably n320. Titegroup is a great powder, but it burns really hot in comparison to Viht 320 (Titegroup being a double base powder (high nitro content) versus the single base n320). Quoted: Quoted: I cant remember off the top of my head but supposedly one of the vihtavuori powders was actually designed for 9mm 147 subsonic use. That being said I know a ton of people that run titegroup both suppressed and unsuppressed with good results. Probably n320. Titegroup is a great powder, but it burns really hot in comparison to Viht 320 (Titegroup being a double base powder (high nitro content) versus the single base n320). N320 is the shit, if you can find it.
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Quoted: Sounds like N320 is one I need to try then. I don't know if I can get it locally but might order online. Just hate to pay the hazmat so would like to buy some other powders too. How well does Winchester 231(HP38) work for suppressed 9mm sub loads? |
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Quoted:
Probably n320. Titegroup is a great powder, but it burns really hot in comparison to Viht 320 (Titegroup being a double base powder (high nitro content) versus the single base n320). Quoted:
Quoted:
I cant remember off the top of my head but supposedly one of the vihtavuori powders was actually designed for 9mm 147 subsonic use. That being said I know a ton of people that run titegroup both suppressed and unsuppressed with good results. Probably n320. Titegroup is a great powder, but it burns really hot in comparison to Viht 320 (Titegroup being a double base powder (high nitro content) versus the single base n320). The powder you are thinking of is N-310. There is a ton of info going back 100 years on supressors and reloading at this site: (look around the whole site - you will see N310 mentioned over and over). http://guns.connect.fi/gow/arcane2.html It is possible to load it under 147s - but its a hairy load and NOT for blow-back guns (Bad things will happen. Very bad things). If you decide to try it, use a max. C.O.A.L. - or at least 1.140" A much safer alternative is Tightgroup - for which there is published data with 147s. As far as single- vs. double base: I used to think like you: -because single base burns cooler, it SHOULD produce less noise through a supressor. Everyone knows that running a supressor wet works because the additive acts as a coolant, right? HOWEVER, Titegroup seems to be the most quiet for loading subsonic 147s despite all the excess heat it produces. It also has the highest nitro content of any common double base powder at about 37%. (probably why it burns so hot). It might have to do with WHERE in the ignition cycle TG produces it's highest peak pressure: it peaks closer to primer ignition than further down the barrel like single base powders. But, that is just a theory. OP: Titegroup should be your best bet. |
| When I load 147 grain 9mm, I use VV N320. Its a very mild recoil, cool burning, and complete burning powder that gives enough energy to cycle the slide. I've also worked up good loads for 124 grain bullets with Hodgdon Universal since the 124 grain variety are a little bit cheaper to buy as plinking ammo. |
| I have not loaded any suppressor loads yet, but I have run many loads throgh quickload. Titegroup did have a higher heat as mentioned already. But the info I was looking for wasn't the heat of burn, but the muzzle pressure. The VV N320, 330, 340 powders had lower muzzle pressures than most other equivalent loads. It was theorized that N330 was the powder used in in Alabama Special K 9mm ammo that I can't find anywhere. It always tested more quiet than other subsonic ammo per silencerresearch.com |
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CBR900, Thanks a lot for all your info and taking the time to answer! I appreciate the link as well, will be a good read. I am very eager to get started trying out these loads that have been mentioned and a few others. All your guys info sounds solid and will be a good jump off point for me when my suppressor gets approved. Anything else anyone can add or any other links would be greatly appreciated. There is just not a whole lot of load data for subsonic 9mm that is published. And even less with WST or Titegroup. Very interested in the VV powders. Heard that Special K is very nice ammo. Thanks everyone!
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Quoted: Nice topic.. So anyone loading up 147's with WSF or Bulleye? Curious for reference only, what loads your using and any chrono numbers thanks |
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Not exactly the recipe that OP was looking for, but I've had good success with 125gr LRN bullets over 4.0gr of Win 231 @ 1.100" (had to go a little short for my CZs).
It cycles my Gen3 G19 w/ Octane 9 HD perfectly and is wicked quiet. It doesn't, however, cycle my wifes Gen4 G19 w/ the suppressor on it (it cycles unsuppressed). I didn't develop this load with the intention of shooting it suppressed -- it just happens that it works. FWIW, and your results may vary. 
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Quoted:
What about Blue Dot? I have a lb and was going to start loading for my M&P9 and Octane 9HD. Alliant lists loads for it on their site. Also intersted in the Bullseye load. MAHA Blue Dot is a lot slower. I haven't tried it but my bet is it will be much louder. |
| If you end up with a 9mm rifle there is a load with a 115 grain bullet loaded with 8.9 grains of IMR 4227 that is a excellent load. It will work in a pistol but will not cycle it without a much lighter spring. This load is very quiet as well. This used to be published in the IMR manuals but they took it out, |
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Quoted:
What about Blue Dot? I have a lb and was going to start loading for my M&P9 and Octane 9HD. Alliant lists loads for it on their site. Also intersted in the Bullseye load. MAHA I have used bullseye with good results, I'd have to look up my data to tell you the loads |
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There isn't much, if any, data on 231 with 147s. If you want to do it, try 3.5 of 231. That is old data from Winchester, they don't currently list it for any 147s. Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like N320 is one I need to try then. I don't know if I can get it locally but might order online. Just hate to pay the hazmat so would like to buy some other powders too. How well does Winchester 231(HP38) work for suppressed 9mm sub loads? 3.6 gr of Win 231 behind Zero brand 147 gr FMJ bullets works great for me. Right around 940-950 fps out of my guns. There just hasn't been any Win 231 for sale anywhere on the face of the earth the last two years. When I run out I'll have to try something new. |
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I run 4.0gr of VV N340 in almost all of my 147gr loads.
I don't have my test data handy right now, but I liked the 340 over the 320 for some reason. I use N320 for .45 ACP loads though. It's such a clean burning powder. I ran the gun suppressed all through 2013 without cleaning it once. Granted it was a slow shooting year because of supplies, but it saw at least 100 rounds per month. |
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Quoted:
Sounds like N320 is one I need to try then. I don't know if I can get it locally but might order online. Just hate to pay the hazmat so would like to buy some other powders too. How well does Winchester 231(HP38) work for suppressed 9mm sub loads? group buy & split the cost; most dealers only charge one hazmat fee per order, but limit the pounds of total powder per shipment; Post in HTF+get that order in,,,, |
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Alright, finally got to the range with my chrono. 3.1 grains of Bullseye gave me an average of 883fps with a 10 shot string. Didn't do 3.2gr for some reason. No pressure signs and my G34 functioned 100% and locked the slide to the rear on the last round. 3.3gr and 3.4gr stings were harder to do because some old fart showed up with a bolt gun and my chrono would give an error code every time he shot. The averages for these strings were 933fps and 958fps respectively. 3.5gr sting averaged 983fps. 3.6grn averaged 1055 fps. All were subsonic and functioned 100%, but the 3.6 had noticeably more recoil. The spread was within 70fps but my chrono kept crapping out every time that asshole shot. I'm going to have to build the load back up to get better data, but I would say 3.4-3.5gr of Bullseye would be the way to go. ETA: This was with 147gr RN Berry's Plated bullet. |
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Quoted:
Alright, finally got to the range with my chrono. 3.1 grains of Bullseye gave me an average of 883fps with a 10 shot string. Didn't do 3.2gr for some reason. No pressure signs and my G34 functioned 100% and locked the slide to the rear on the last round. 3.3gr and 3.4gr stings were harder to do because some old fart showed up with a bolt gun and my chrono would give an error code every time he shot. The averages for these strings were 933fps and 958fps respectively. 3.5gr sting averaged 983fps. 3.6grn averaged 1055 fps. All were subsonic and functioned 100%, but the 3.6 had noticeably more recoil. The spread was within 70fps but my chrono kept crapping out every time that asshole shot. I'm going to have to build the load back up to get better data, but I would say 3.4-3.5gr of Bullseye would be the way to go. What bullet ? |
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Quoted: What bullet ? Quoted: Quoted: Alright, finally got to the range with my chrono. 3.1 grains of Bullseye gave me an average of 883fps with a 10 shot string. Didn't do 3.2gr for some reason. No pressure signs and my G34 functioned 100% and locked the slide to the rear on the last round. 3.3gr and 3.4gr stings were harder to do because some old fart showed up with a bolt gun and my chrono would give an error code every time he shot. The averages for these strings were 933fps and 958fps respectively. 3.5gr sting averaged 983fps. 3.6grn averaged 1055 fps. All were subsonic and functioned 100%, but the 3.6 had noticeably more recoil. The spread was within 70fps but my chrono kept crapping out every time that asshole shot. I'm going to have to build the load back up to get better data, but I would say 3.4-3.5gr of Bullseye would be the way to go. What bullet ? |
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124gr lead Powder coated
4g green dot CCI 500 +/- 1,010 fps Subsonic! The projectile weight is a big factor, just get the correct powder/projectile combo. I did have a batch drop at 3.5g which will not cycle my 9mm pistol. As always doing subsonic reloads, start with mid/high load and work down... |
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Quoted:
I cant remember off the top of my head but supposedly one of the vihtavuori powders was actually designed for 9mm 147 subsonic use. That being said I know a ton of people that run titegroup both suppressed and unsuppressed with good results. I run 3.7grs, of n320 with 147s. I shoot this load out of HK pistols and HK sub guns. Dane |
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