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Posted: 4/23/2014 1:42:23 AM EDT
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I have searched the internet for cast lead bullets. I have all the prices but, I would like to know if they are any bullet companies to avoid? I would also like to know about the amount of the hardness and the bhn number, what does it really mean, what does it affect? On 9mm bullets, some are truncated cone shape, is there any problem with these feeding in a auto-pistol?
thanks for your help, Cmax (FNG) 
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I have pt92, p-38, Chinese mdl 213, m-11, kg-99... I was wondering in general...thx for your response...
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What auto pistol? Glock with polygon rifling or aftermarket conventional rifling? Necessary information needed to make a useful recommendation. I have pt92, p-38, Chinese mdl 213, m-11, kg-99... I was wondering in general...thx for your response...
I cast my 147 grain RNFP to a Saeco hardness of 9 or as close to that as I can get. That's a BHN of somewhere between 15 to 17. My opinion on 9mm lead is the harder the better. I think most ads for commercial 9mm lead has the hardness at 16 BHN, that will work just fine. 
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One consistent problem you will have ordering cast pistol boolits is that they are almost always too hard.
It's widely accepted that a softer boolit shoots better in pistols (generally), but boolit manufacturers cast from harder alloys to prevent damage during shipping. So. If you want the most accurate boolit, you should cast your own from an alloy you purchase. Otherwise, you may have issues with leading due to the harder boolit. If the boolit is too soft, it will lead the barrel. If it is too hard, it will lead the barrel. There is typically an optimum range that performs best (with a given lube). Read the below article for the most in-depth explanation of pretty much everything. From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners by Glen Fryxell and Robert Applegate I typically shoot a hardness of around 10BHN in my 45ACP. It's very, very accurate and doesn't lead my barrel. Here is a good forum on how to measure the BHN with lead pencils Testing Hardness with Pencils 
You can see in the second picture that the boolits have a few scuffs on them. This is because the alloy is softer and exactly why manufactures ship boolits cast from a harder alloy. |
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One consistent problem you will have ordering cast pistol boolits is that they are almost always too hard. It's widely accepted that a softer boolit shoots better in pistols (generally), but boolit manufacturers cast from harder alloys to prevent damage during shipping. So. If you want the most accurate boolit, you should cast your own from an alloy you purchase. Otherwise, you may have issues with leading due to the harder boolit. If the boolit is too soft, it will lead the barrel. If it is too hard, it will lead the barrel. There is typically an optimum range that performs best (with a given lube). Read the below article for the most in-depth explanation of pretty much everything. From Ingot to Target: A Cast Bullet Guide for Handgunners by Glen Fryxell and Robert Applegate I typically shoot a hardness of around 10BHN in my 45ACP. It's very, very accurate and doesn't lead my barrel. Here is a good forum on how to measure the BHN with lead pencils Testing Hardness with Pencils <a href="http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/drfroglegs/media/2014-03-22212820_zps4c4a8f34.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag158/drfroglegs/2014-03-22212820_zps4c4a8f34.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/drfroglegs/media/2014-03-22212839_zpsf5f8ae72.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag158/drfroglegs/2014-03-22212839_zpsf5f8ae72.jpg</a> <a href="http://s1303.photobucket.com/user/drfroglegs/media/bdb289c7cae35013664734348e0427d7_zps6d78d0ef.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag158/drfroglegs/bdb289c7cae35013664734348e0427d7_zps6d78d0ef.jpg</a> You can see in the second picture that the boolits have a few scuffs on them. This is because the alloy is softer and exactly why manufactures ship boolits cast from a harder alloy. I will not make my own for I have young children around, thanks for the great article. Where should I get the "softer bullets" from? Most sites I found were avg 16-18 hardness...I will be loading 9mm, 38 special/357 mag....Thanks for the post
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Generally speaking what causes leading with cast bullets are undersized bullets. A cast bullet should be about .001 over groove diameter. In some cases, a generous chamber with a large throat can cause leading and you'll want to go larger than .001 over groove diameter to match the larger throat. The limiting factors are 1) keeping the dimensions of the loaded round small enough to chamber and 2) having enough clearance to release the bullet on firing.
Hardness is secondary to diameter in leading prevention, but bullets should have a hardness that matches the pressure of the load. Too hard is far worse than too soft as an excessively hard bullet will not obturate quickly or at all into the rifling and the resulting gas cutting around the bullet causes leading. Pure lead and stick on wheel weights have a BHN of 5 or 6 and work well up to about 13,000 psi, so it's great for black powder and low pressure CASS-trated loads. Clip on wheel weights have a BHN of around 12 and work well up to about 25,000 psi. 1-20 tin/lead and 1-10 tin/lead alloys have similar BHNs (10 and 11). They all work well for many hand gun loads as well as some slow, low pressure rifle loads like the .38-55 and .45-70. Lyman Number 2 alloy has a BHN around 15 and is good up to 35000 psi. It works well in faster rifle loads up to about 2000 fps as well as in higher pressure and magnum handgun rounds like the 9mm Para. It's about as high as you want to go with a 9mm para , given that 9mm para runs at up to 35000 psi in standard loading and 38,500 psi in +P loads and most cast bullet loads will be del under that. Linotype has a hardness of 18 or 19 BHN as does drop quenched wheel weights (although drop quenched ww will take about 3 weeks to cure before reaching that hardness) Oven heated ww can reach a hardness of 30 or 32 and are good to 55,000 psi. So in short, assuming the diameter is not too small, you should be fine with moderate loads in a 9mm para using WW, 1-10, 1-20 or Lyman No 2 alloy, or with Lyman number 2 alloy with stiffer loads. For the 9mm para where the pressure will run to 35000 psi (or 38500 for P+ loads) |
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If leading is a concern, buy the cast bullets and then powder coat them yourself. It is a very inexpensive investment - toaster oven and some powder for around $40 (if buy a pound of powder).
I do not cast myself, also have a young child who likes to get into everything. I just purchase cast non lubed, powder coat and size them myself. if you go with the powder coat, don't worry about the hardness. ETA -price is assuming dry tumble method, can use your existing tumbler or even a coffee can and manually shake the bullets/powder. May also need to buy a strainer to dump excess powder which can be reused. |
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http://www.missouribullet.com/ a very good place to buy cast bullets. Read the first paragraph on that page and click on Technical, that will explain lead hardness and the hardness levels that Missouri Bullets sell. Great post drfroglegs, you didn't leave me much to add. 
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I've bought over 5k bullets from SNS Castings. They also have new Polymer coated lead bullets and they are great. I completely switched over to them as they are a lot less smokey and dirty. |
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I like this guy, Randy, The owner is a super good dude. |
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I just looked and the price per thousand shipped at Missouri vs SNS Casting / Blue Bullets / Bayou / every coated lead bullet company is within $3-4 per thousand in 9mm.
There is no way I would deal with plain lead for that little money, the coated lead bullets don't smoke any more than FMJ's. If you cast your own for free-$20/k it makes sense...but to each his own 
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