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Posted: 7/25/2013 12:55:34 PM EDT
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So I'm looking to get some fire suppression supplies for the home, and reloading obviously mentions a special reason why. Most of the time it won't be a problem, as long as one is smart and leaves open flames and other sources of ignition away from the combustibles, and even then that can easily be solved with an ABC extinguisher. No problem there.
But in addition to regular reloading, I do lead smelting. Since molten lead is a fairly different beast compared to gunpowder or primers, is there any special consideration to take regarding fire suppression, other than the clear no-no of don't use water? I bought a ABC fire extinguisher which is charged with ammonium sulfate and phosphate. |
| Lead if not a particularly flammable metal. Aluminum, lithium, magnesium, sodium and others you need a D type fire extinguisher. Molten lead would seem to be a burn hazard and if you are really worried a safety shower/eyewash would help or a hose. If you go the hose route make sure it is some you can find when you have molten lead on you arm, neck, or eyes if you weren't wearing your ppe. I dont cast, but if I did I would wear sleeves, gloves and maybe a faceshield. |
| Well they all have pressure and will blow particles and the clean up is a job if that's a concern. To me, putting the fire out would be the biggest issue. A class ABC extinguisher will do the job. If its good for DOT when transporting explosives its good for me. |
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If powder catches fire, you can't put it out, it makes its own oxygen, so it has to burn itself out, but that doesn't usually take long, it burns intensely hot and furious, but not for long. You need the fire extinguisher for after it burns out. Molten metals and water are a no no, that's for a powder type extinguishers or Halon. |
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Few bits of confusion here and some bad assumptions in this thread...
Yes, good point about powder having its own oxidizer. But since the material in the extinguisher is stored under pressure, it should remove the heat from the equation as it's expelled at cool temperatures. But a cold water sprayer would probably be better. I don't cast lead indoors. Period. There's no reason to do so. I do it outside, but that's not to say that there's no flammable things outside. No idea where anyone got the idea that I casted inside or near the rest of the reloading equipment. Also, I know that lead is not really flammable at the temperatures that you cast at, but it does produce material well above the flash point of many common materials, like paper, cloth, and more -- things that could catch on fire from splattering. I'm not talking about one activity or the other catching the other on fire, just in case something happens. That's why you have an extinguisher anyways -- just in case. |
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It is also my understanding that a conventional fire ext. will not put a gunpowder fire out.
"It will auto ignite at 394F. To extinguish a gunpowder fire use massive amounts of water, be sure that the powder fire does not also include an electrical fire, as electrocution is possible. Call 911, get everyone clear, stay back, let the professionals handle what is left." "Smokeless powders, once ignited, will burn until they are completely consumed. They provide their own oxygen for combustion and cannot be extinguished by depriving them of atmospheric oxygen. Since it is intended to burn, a smokeless powder fire is difficult to fight." "One thing worth noting is that I don't think there is anything that will easily extinguish burning smokeless gun powder. It carries its own oxidizer, so it is difficult to interrupt its burning." "I would think, since we're talking about putting out a possible powder fire, the gas ones would be troublesome, since they can "scatter" the fire due to it's high charged deployment," Another thing to note is if you are in a small room ... you could suffocate from all the burning gases and CO2 produced. I would suggest that you still include a fire ext. in case you have another more common fire ignite.... but as for the powder... massive water might be your best choice. |
| I see no problem with casting indoors. Sure, smelting should most definitly done outdoors. But once the lead has been smelted, and all impurities removed, there's very little airborne particulates and smoke. Sure, outside may be ideal for air consideration. But IMHO, there's a far larger likelihood of getting crap in the pot outdoors, not to mention, wind, etc. |
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Once started, the propagation of fire will more than likely be through, and in to, the sides of sealed containers. Water will be unable to penetrate in to the yet un compromised containers and will be challenged to penetrate any container with burning powder. A high pressure system could over come this this but create other issue in itself.
Powder magazines are, in part, designed with the assumption that all will burn, they merely contain the event. These are of course deflagration material magazines. It has been over a decade since I attended training on this topic but I would be surprised if anything has changed. |
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Quoted: Water will wet the powder that hasn't caught fire yet, and keep it from catching fire... even if it blows it around in doing so. Correct to a point, but unburned powder will still be in sealed containers and protected from moisture, those containers will rupture and catch fire simultaneously, enough water might be able to keep some containers cool enough to prevent them from erupting if they are a little distance from the fire, very close to the fire would be too intense to make much difference. The major point is simple, if powder catches fire, you will see me running for my life! The powder really has to consume itself before the fire can be attacked by firefighters, but as I said, that won't take long, it probably wouldn't take more than 3-4 seconds for a pound of powder to consume itself. When I was a lot younger, and powder was a lot cheaper, I once poured out 2-3 oz of rifle powder in a little pile and used a long stick to light it off, it burns very violently but it doesn't last long.  |
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Quoted:
Few bits of confusion here and some bad assumptions in this thread... Yes, good point about powder having its own oxidizer. But since the material in the extinguisher is stored under pressure, it should remove the heat from the equation as it's expelled at cool temperatures. But a cold water sprayer would probably be better. I don't cast lead indoors. Period. There's no reason to do so. I do it outside, but that's not to say that there's no flammable things outside. No idea where anyone got the idea that I casted inside or near the rest of the reloading equipment. Also, I know that lead is not really flammable at the temperatures that you cast at, but it does produce material well above the flash point of many common materials, like paper, cloth, and more -- things that could catch on fire from splattering. I'm not talking about one activity or the other catching the other on fire, just in case something happens. That's why you have an extinguisher anyways -- just in case. I think you want a type 2 class D extinguisher. "The copper compound smothers the fire and provides an excellent heat sink for dissipating the heat of the fire." |
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A typical splatter is small and does not have enough heat capacity to ignite normal objects such as cloth or wood and I suspect paper although I haven't tried that. I have splashed small amounts of lead on my trousers or cloth shoes with no ill effect.
If you are getting large splatters you have other problems. When I cast (outdoors always) my casting bench is a Workmate. These are heavy and solid enough to be stable. I use a bottom pour pot and it is clamped to the Workmate so there is no chance of tipping the pot. This is not to say that your work area shouldn't be relatively clean. |
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