Armory Sponsor
Posted: 5/30/2013 5:42:57 PM EDT
|
Another thread for reloading and testing them.
I'm trying to shoot out to 100 and 200 yards, at 100 I can see through my scope the bullet holes, at 200. nada. this is my rifle scope not the best in the world i'm sure, but seems ok. again best quality for cheapest price. I'm looking for something that I can actually see the rounds where they have hit so I can ensure i'm good at both 100 and out to 200 without taking a long walk. i'm thinking perhaps this would be perfect? BARSKA 25 125x88 |
|
Check out the local Highpower crowd. A few of those guys upgrade scopes and sell off the old one.
I bought a Kowa TSN 821 for a pretty good price from a fellow club memberr when he upgraded to the newest and best thing. Jarheadtop.com used to be the clearing house for used Kowas, at least 10-12 years ago or so. |
|
I've got a Bushnell Banner that does 18-36x and works well out to 200-300 yds if mirage isn't bad and can be had for under $100. It's ~18 yrs old, so you'll just have to see. I'd stay away from the Basarka stuff and things like NC Star. They're cheaper quality.
Chris |
|
The Barska is just about the worst choice you could make.
Look at Champion's Choice, Champion Shooters, or Creedmore Sports. Buy a 60mm scope with a 45 degree eyepiece that they sell as entry level for highpower shooters. The targets I designed also help, the contrast is good for sighting, but allows seeing the bullet holes without straining. Here's one for which bullet holes are 300 yards are visible: 
There are couple of tricks you can try. Laying a white sheet or board in front of the target helps illuminate the front of the target, and laying one in the back of the target sometimes reflects light through the bullet holes. Here's a budget priced scope I would investigate: http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=723&virtuemart_category_id=138&Itemid=111 Leupold is also selling a scope that looks pretty good for the $200 price range. |
|
Quoted:
The Barska is just about the worst choice you could make. Look at Champion's Choice, Champion Shooters, or Creedmore Sports. Buy a 60mm scope with a 45 degree eyepiece that they sell as entry level for highpower shooters. The targets I designed also help, the contrast is good for sighting, but allows seeing the bullet holes without straining. Here's one for which bullet holes are 300 yards are visible: http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=36203 There are couple of tricks you can try. Laying a white sheet or board in front of the target helps illuminate the front of the target, and laying one in the back of the target sometimes reflects light through the bullet holes. Here's a budget priced scope I would investigate: http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=723&virtuemart_category_id=138&Itemid=111 Leupold is also selling a scope that looks pretty good for the $200 price range. Forgive my lack of knowledge on optics but what does Celestron 65mm 18-55X vs. Celestron 80mm 20-60X do? the 65 vs 80mm is the width of the lens right? meaning more light entry? I'm thinking the next two numbers are zoom from 18 to 55x or 20 to 60x? Also since I appear to have bombed on my rifle scope, it's good when you can see through it but lights got to be perfect as does your face angle otherwise it's hard to find a picture. Is there a scope that would be good for an AR-15 that would possibly even allow me to simply skip a spotter scope so that I could actually see the bullet holes at 200 yards? If I could get the best of both and it not look stupid on an AR platform I would be glad to pay more for a rifle scope since in essence I would be getting a spotter and scope in one unit. |
|
A good 16X (16 times magnification) rifle scope is more than adequate for seeing .22 caliber bullet holes at 200 yards if they aren't buried in a black bullseye and the scope is capable of resolving the bullet hole at long distance.
Unfortunately, we have to pay for good optics, and buying cheap scopes to start simply adds to the cost of the equipment we end up with anyway. But, I don't think Leupold is the only answer. I'm a huge fan of Weaver Grand Slam and T series scopes, and I also like Burris, Sightron, and Vortex. The Leupold VX3 2-8X 40mm scope is one of the best buys on the market, and it's not my first choice for load work, but it's a great scope for hunting. I think you need to get a look through some other scopes so you can get a calibration on the one you own. Frankly, I would buy a BSA before a Barska, and I'm not even remotely a BSA fan. There are lots of scopes that look okay in mid day, and they fall apart at dusk. There are piles that are poor in the bright light of mid day, too; they're dark or won't focus. Or both, along with a basket of other problems. http://www.bearbasin.com/weaver-scopes.htm |
|
What's your budget for the spotting scope? Be honest.
I've read the Konus scopes are the best budget-priced spotting scopes. I've never used one but the recommendations, many of them, come from many reputable people. This is on sale for $225 (49% off). This is a quote from the Optic Planet web site. I repeat it here because even they know their customers are fairly happy with this budget scope. "Best Rated Product - Our customers have spoken – this is one of the best rated products in the Spotting Scopes category!" Konus Scope at Optics Planet 
I hope this helps. P.S. - Go to the HP shooting web sites and make a Wanted to Buy post. Many people eventually upgrade from this Konus to a Kowa. It's a genuine optical upgrade but the 80mm Kowa costs $1k. |
AeroE is correct on the target contrast. Don't use any targets that have a black bullseye. It's much easier to see holes on a light background with some simple crosses for aiming points. The green and orange sighting targets aren't bad though. While I do have a Kowa, I had an opportunity to check out a few Nikon spotting scopes and was pretty impressed with their clarity. |
|
I'll go back to answer one question.
The scope's "aperture" should be about 5mm, the same diameter as the human iris, so it can pass the maximum amount of light. This can be calculated by dividing the objective diameter by the magnification; 8X40mm binoculars have a 5mm aperture, and this one reason they appear brighter than 8X36 compact binoculars. You've probably noticed that popular configurations are 7X35, 8X40, 10X50, and so on. It's the reason that variable power binoculars with 30X magnification and 50mm objectives are basically useless, and the reason spotting scopes tend to large objectives. We can tolerate the small aperture because the scope is held on a stand, and because they are mostly used in the middle of the day when the light is brightest. Even so, the upper end magnification of some scopes is barely usable in clear air, and useless in air with mirage; this is the reason you'll find 20X to 30X magnifiers on the scopes used by Highpower shooters, that's about the maximum magnification that is usable. After taking care of the basic aperture and magnification, it all comes down to optical quality (and maybe the quality of the body), and that can range from a cheap joke to obscenely priced perfection. Most of us can get by with the middle of the road. I owned a Bushnell Spacemaster that I regret selling. It was a straight through scope, and I wanted one with a 45 degree eyepiece for Highpower, so I sold it to help fund a big Kowa. Well, guess what, that 80mm Kowa is a great scope, and it's also big and heavy, and I seldon take it to the range. What I use now is either a 50mm Kowa, an ancient 60mm Redfield (with the red body and rotating head; a great scope), or an equally ancient 60mm Bushnell that was my favorite until I knocked it off the bench and dinged it up; still works, but it ticks me off. I bought every scope second hand except for the 80mm Kowa, and I bought that from Jim Owens. I also have a cheap little 50mm Bushnell that I got as a longevity award from work that I use for pistol shooting; this one is useless at distances past about 25 yards, but it can focus up closer than most other scopes. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Barska is just about the worst choice you could make. Look at Champion's Choice, Champion Shooters, or Creedmore Sports. Buy a 60mm scope with a 45 degree eyepiece that they sell as entry level for highpower shooters. The targets I designed also help, the contrast is good for sighting, but allows seeing the bullet holes without straining. Here's one for which bullet holes are 300 yards are visible: http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=36203 There are couple of tricks you can try. Laying a white sheet or board in front of the target helps illuminate the front of the target, and laying one in the back of the target sometimes reflects light through the bullet holes. Here's a budget priced scope I would investigate: http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=723&virtuemart_category_id=138&Itemid=111 Leupold is also selling a scope that looks pretty good for the $200 price range. Forgive my lack of knowledge on optics but what does Celestron 65mm 18-55X vs. Celestron 80mm 20-60X do? the 65 vs 80mm is the width of the lens right? meaning more light entry? I'm thinking the next two numbers are zoom from 18 to 55x or 20 to 60x? Also since I appear to have bombed on my rifle scope, it's good when you can see through it but lights got to be perfect as does your face angle otherwise it's hard to find a picture. Is there a scope that would be good for an AR-15 that would possibly even allow me to simply skip a spotter scope so that I could actually see the bullet holes at 200 yards? If I could get the best of both and it not look stupid on an AR platform I would be glad to pay more for a rifle scope since in essence I would be getting a spotter and scope in one unit. I don't know about looking stupid on an AR or not but the Nikon Buckmaster 6-18 from Midway is what I use on mine for shooting groups. On the right target you could see the holes at 200 with no problems. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/123107/nikon-buckmasters-rifle-scope-6-18x-40mm-side-focus-mil-dot-reticle-matte |
|
Quoted:
The Barska is just about the worst choice you could make. Look at Champion's Choice, Champion Shooters, or Creedmore Sports. Buy a 60mm scope with a 45 degree eyepiece that they sell as entry level for highpower shooters. The targets I designed also help, the contrast is good for sighting, but allows seeing the bullet holes without straining. Here's one for which bullet holes are 300 yards are visible: http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=36203 There are couple of tricks you can try. Laying a white sheet or board in front of the target helps illuminate the front of the target, and laying one in the back of the target sometimes reflects light through the bullet holes. Here's a budget priced scope I would investigate: http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=723&virtuemart_category_id=138&Itemid=111 Leupold is also selling a scope that looks pretty good for the $200 price range. I just printed this target out and measured the squares, they are 1.08" square. Should they be printing at 1" square? -ZA |
Ditto on the 20-60x80 Konus. Love that free shipping 
Reviews of the optics are excellent for the price, and dollar for dollar, the 60x80 is the best deal in the line. The glass is clear and eye relief is decent enough so I don't need to take off my glasses. Cheap tripod, but I bought the glass. Could've dropped a grand on a scope, but I couldn't justify it. Best of all, the spousal unit finally thinks that I'm a genius 
|
|
Wow, this is one of those questions that people ask on the web where they want you to give them the answer they already are choking to death in their own mind.
Not gonna do it. 90% of the many long range shooters I know use a Kowa spotting scope. The other 10% wish they had one. It's really hard to suggest you spend hard-earned money on crap that you will only throw away to buy a Kowa in the future. That really is how it goes. You want a Kowa scope. Shop for one. Good used ones come up sometimes for great prices. But, your rifle scope really should be able to easily resolve .22 caliber bullets at 200 yards. If it doesn't, you have bigger problems than the walk down to inspect your targets. The sad truth about rifle shooting is that glass is everything and most of the conversations are about the rifle, the load, or the caliber which are secondary to the primary issue which is being able to see your target. I know you don't want this answer. I know you already have your answer. I know you hoped to come in here and get support for the answer you already had formed. You made a mistake there, just like the mistake you made when you bought your rifle scope. Hopefully, you'll not continue on your path of ruin by buying a cheap spotting scope. A Kowa will resolve .22 caliber holes at 300 yards. On good days it will work at 400. Start saving money by buying stuff that has value in the first place. You'll thank me for this when you're older. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Barska is just about the worst choice you could make. Look at Champion's Choice, Champion Shooters, or Creedmore Sports. Buy a 60mm scope with a 45 degree eyepiece that they sell as entry level for highpower shooters. The targets I designed also help, the contrast is good for sighting, but allows seeing the bullet holes without straining. Here's one for which bullet holes are 300 yards are visible: http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=36203 There are couple of tricks you can try. Laying a white sheet or board in front of the target helps illuminate the front of the target, and laying one in the back of the target sometimes reflects light through the bullet holes. Here's a budget priced scope I would investigate: http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=723&virtuemart_category_id=138&Itemid=111 Leupold is also selling a scope that looks pretty good for the $200 price range. I just printed this target out and measured the squares, they are 1.08" square. Should they be printing at 1" square? -ZA The grid is 1 inch. Or should be. I used the default grid in powerpoint to lay these out, and there is a good possibility that the grid isn't precise. On the other hand, 1.08 is closer to 1 minute than 1.0! If you send an email address, I'll send you a file with a whole passel of different targets I've made up for different purposes. I'll check tonight. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Barska is just about the worst choice you could make. Look at Champion's Choice, Champion Shooters, or Creedmore Sports. Buy a 60mm scope with a 45 degree eyepiece that they sell as entry level for highpower shooters. The targets I designed also help, the contrast is good for sighting, but allows seeing the bullet holes without straining. Here's one for which bullet holes are 300 yards are visible: http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=36203 There are couple of tricks you can try. Laying a white sheet or board in front of the target helps illuminate the front of the target, and laying one in the back of the target sometimes reflects light through the bullet holes. Here's a budget priced scope I would investigate: http://www.championshooters.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=723&virtuemart_category_id=138&Itemid=111 Leupold is also selling a scope that looks pretty good for the $200 price range. I just printed this target out and measured the squares, they are 1.08" square. Should they be printing at 1" square? -ZA The grid is 1 inch. Or should be. I used the default grid in powerpoint to lay these out, and there is a good possibility that the grid isn't precise. On the other hand, 1.08 is closer to 1 minute than 1.0! If you send an email address, I'll send you a file with a whole passel of different targets I've made up for different purposes. I'll check tonight. I think it was a printing issue. The default program that file uses on my desktop wouldn't print them out the correct size, I reopen the file in MS Paint and it prints perfectly.  LOL...
Email in your PM... -ZA |
|
Lots of great highpower shooters in GA. Go to one of the larger matches and you'll see kowa's up and down the line. But man are they expensive! The Nikon's were getting some love back when I was more into the game, as well, but they're no cheaper.
Personally, if you just want to spot holes, it's way cheaper to just buy some small steel targets if they're allowed on your range. Paint them white and you can spot your impacts pretty easily. |
| Look at Zhuemell. I got a 20X60 80mm for Highpower, good eye relief and can see .223 at 300 under the right conditions. Under rated compared to the Konus which is more popular. has a wider mounting ring than the Konus which I hear is prone to breaking. About $200.00, ordered on a Friday and received it on Monday. I was able to see the rings of Saturn a few weeks back when it was at optimal viewing. |
|
Quoted:
Ditto on the 20-60x80 Konus. Love that free shipping
Reviews of the optics are excellent for the price, and dollar for dollar, the 60x80 is the best deal in the line. The glass is clear and eye relief is decent enough so I don't need to take off my glasses. Cheap tripod, but I bought the glass. Could've dropped a grand on a scope, but I couldn't justify it. Best of all, the spousal unit finally thinks that I'm a genius I bought this for me for Christmas, been very happy with it. |
|
well, i think i finally found the scope that i really want. I looked through one that was 14x and MAN was it nice and clear, even at max magnification.
Leupold AR Mod Scope Just wish it had illuminated dot. Are there other scope with as good or better quality and price range to consider? |
|
It can be tough to spot 22 cal bullet holes at 300 yards even with a good spotting scope. I've got a pretty good Burris spotting scope but I can't make them out at 300 yards. The only chance I have at 300 yds is the hi viz targets that emphasize the bullet holes like the Shoot N C. |
|
I purchase a Unertl 24X 45 degree extended eye relief scope back in the mid 80's for the astronmical price (then) of $250.00. It has served me well through 30 full years of highpower tournaments and I suspect will give good service long after I'm gone. Buy something good now and enjoy it the rest of your life.
As far as seeing .22 holes at 200/300 in the black good luck. If it cuts a scoring line or perforates the X, 10 or 9 you'll see it. Otherwise high overcast or low temperatures are your only friend. Mirage makes it hard to see .30's in the black. People are astonished when they look through my spotting scope. I'm used to it. Kowas are very nice too. Good glass is appreciated by everyone. |
|
I've got a 80mm Konus and it works well under good conditions. It's a wonderfull scope optically, but the build quality is nowhere near as solid as the Kowa. The other advantage of the Kowa is the changeable eyepeices. the Long Eye Releif is real nice for those of us that wear glasses. On conditions, heat, humidity create mirage (the visible wavy lines you see in from the heat rising from the ground). Under heavy mirage there's days that you can't resolve .22 holes at 200 yards with a kowa either. Grab one of those sick in the ground targets and place it a little ways behind your target (so the sunlight can still hit it) put a white peice of tagboard or something a foot or so behind the target, it provide some contrast and goes a long way to resolve holes in the black.
|
Armory Sponsor