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Posted: 4/26/2013 1:39:52 PM EDT
| I have a couple hundred 223 reloads in which I would like to attempt to identify the powder charge. Assuming it is something common, is it possible, or am I pissing in the wind? |
| Very carefully reloaded 500 rds of .308 - same primer, same bullet, carefully weighed each charge. Wrote it up in my notebook that I keep such things in for years, moved, had a minor stroke right after and can't locate my notebook now. First time in my in 25 years of reloading that I didn't drop individual cards into each 50rd box as well. Sure hope I don't love this round because I can't replicate it. Can remember everything but the powder name/weight. Maddening. |
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You could check the density, and compare it to other powders that way. This could narrow down the list of suspects, and give you a powder to look for in the hand loading manuals.
Once you have found a load for a powder with a similar density, you have a starting point to duplicate that load. |
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That is not the smartest thing to do. I would never attempt to duplicate a load based on a powder I guessed at. Why don't you just work up a load based around components you can readily and consistently acquire?
But, if you posted a picture of the powder, someone here could at least help you narrow it down. If might be helpful to post the powder charge as well. You can cross reference the type of powder (stick, ball) with the powder charge and have a good idea of what was used. All this is assuming these are reloads and not factory ammo. Many ammo manufacturers use canister grade powder that is not readily available to the public. jonblack |
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Quoted: I have a couple hundred 223 reloads in which I would like to attempt to identify the powder charge. Assuming it is something common, is it possible, or am I pissing in the wind? Bad idea. You have no way of knowing what powder it is. If you can't ID the powder, you have no way to know what charge weight to use. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Taste the powder, a bitter metalic taste could indicate h233, h335, or any other varients. A more coppery taste could indicate Alliant products A sulphery taste would be BP(an odd choice for a 5.56 but hey) Is this a joke? TAC is kind of minty...  JK. Pretty sure he's joking. If not, well, nice knowin' ya! |
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I have a couple hundred 223 reloads in which I would like to attempt to identify the powder charge. Assuming it is something common, is it possible, or am I pissing in the wind? Bad idea. You have no way of knowing what powder it is. If you can't ID the powder, you have no way to know what charge weight to use. I'm with DF. Unless you can ID it 100% then you need to toss it in the yard.s On a side note. Ive been reloading long enough that I can look and smell a powder and get an idea of what it might be ( especially if I smell it burnt ). even still I'd dump it. Powder is a heck of a lot cheaper then a new firearm, finger, face ......... you get the idea |
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I have a couple hundred 223 reloads in which I would like to attempt to identify the powder charge. Assuming it is something common, is it possible, or am I pissing in the wind? Impossible by appearance unless it's one of the few gunpowders with clear identifying features such as Green Dot, Red Dot, or Trail Boss. I have three or four gunpowders on hand that are so similar in appearance and grain size that there's no way they could be id'd with certainty. |
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I believe every one is seriously over thinking this problem. Visual examination will identify the type of powder, whether it is spherical, stick, flake, whatever. Weigh the charge. Look at as many handloading manuals as you can for that cartridge, to see how loads near that charge weight and powder type are suitable for that cartridge.
This should cut down your possible powders tremendously, assuming that the handloads in question are loaded with a reasonably normal charge of a reasonably normal powder. Example; The powder is obviously spherical. The bullet is a 55 grain soft point. The powder charge is 25 grains. I picked up a Hodgdon reloading manual and I see that they list 25.3 grains of H335 for a 55 grain bullet. H335 is a spherical powder. I obtain a sample of H335, and visually it looks identical to the powder in question. (This doesn't help you to identify the powder, but it does remove some powders from consideration). I pick up a dipper at random and weigh how much of the powder fits in it. Let's say it is 20 grains, for example. Obtain a sample of H335, (this could be the difficult part). Look!, the same dipper holds 20 grains! Pretty good chance it is H335, so you need to consult the manual again. Start at a reasonable charge and work your way up to the 25 grain level. Should be easy to reach, as Hodgdon's manual says 25.3 is the maximum load for H335. Assemble your loads as identical as you can to the loads you are trying to duplicate. (Not easy with primers, is it?) Chronograph your loads vs the load you are trying to identify. If they are pretty close, then you have identified the powder, or at least have found a very good substitute which will enable you to duplicate the performance of the loads in question. All of which is perfectly safe. Now this process won't work if some body used a non-common powder, (possibly a surplus powder). But, if it is a common canister grade powder, the investigation should be successful. It might be a lot of work, but it is not rocket surgery. More importantly, it is not dangerous. It is no more dangerous than any other normal reloading project. |
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How will you screen for the gunpowders you don't have? No one is going to buy 20 or 30 pounds of gunpowder in order to salvage 3 or 4 hundred grains of an unknown gunpowder. I did say that part could be difficult, didn't I? Well, it's not impossible. I think Quickload lists the density of powders. Perhaps a friend has some of the powder in his possession. I have seen people ask questions like this on the internet. If several people report the same or nearly same density that should do. In any case, I thought the OP was trying to identify the powder so he could duplicate the load, not to salvage the powder in question. Perhaps I was mis-interpreting his post. In any case, there is nothing dangerous about trying to identify a powder, assuming that the load in question is safe to begin with. |
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You could check the density, and compare it to other powders that way. This could narrow down the list of suspects, and give you a powder to look for in the hand loading manuals. Once you have found a load for a powder with a similar density, you have a starting point to duplicate that load. POWDER DENSITY LEE has table of powder densities. They call it VOLUME MEASURE DENSITY (VMD) The data in this table could be used to narrow the possible choices. |
| Back in the 1960's when I worked for Hercules Inc, Red Dot, Blue Dot and Reloder 7/11/21 had colored granules mixed in with the propellant to identify the propellant. The granules were propellant but weren't exactly the same burn characteristics of the main lot. This didn't matter since they were such a miniscule amount of the whole. One of our customers wrote that he had physically sorted out the colored "power pellets" (his words) in Reloder 11 and was very dissatisfied with the results. From that time on, colored granules were NOT included in the Reloder propellants. |
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You could check the density, and compare it to other powders that way. This could narrow down the list of suspects, and give you a powder to look for in the hand loading manuals. Once you have found a load for a powder with a similar density, you have a starting point to duplicate that load. POWDER DENSITY LEE has table of powder densities. They call it VOLUME MEASURE DENSITY (VMD) The data in this table could be used to narrow the possible choices. With just enough range for the various canister powders used in ALL commercial and mil ammunition to blow yourself up. Fertilizer. |
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The procedure I have described is not dangerous. Why any one would want to purchase new powder, only to throw it on grass in the yard is beyond me.
I think the procedure is too much work, but if some one really wanted to identify a powder it would work most of the time. If you consider this too dangerous, then reloading anything would be entirely too dangerous. I believe some people just read every other word of some posts. Now, when it comes to reloading, that is dangerous. |
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The procedure I have described is not dangerous. Why any one would want to purchase new powder, only to throw it on grass in the yard is beyond me. I think the procedure is too much work, but if some one really wanted to identify a powder it would work most of the time. If you consider this too dangerous, then reloading anything would be entirely too dangerous. I believe some people just read every other word of some posts. Now, when it comes to reloading, that is dangerous. "Most of the time" being vary dangerous some of the time. Go for it. guns are not expensive, and your insurance will cover your injuries. We are not that good at reattaching tissue removed by explosions (it tends to get pretty badly damaged on the way off) but maybe your doctors can be the first.
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The procedure I have described is not dangerous. Why any one would want to purchase new powder, only to throw it on grass in the yard is beyond me. I think the procedure is too much work, but if some one really wanted to identify a powder it would work most of the time. If you consider this too dangerous, then reloading anything would be entirely too dangerous. I believe some people just read every other word of some posts. Now, when it comes to reloading, that is dangerous. "Most of the time" being vary dangerous some of the time. Go for it. guns are not expensive, and your insurance will cover your injuries. We are not that good at reattaching tissue removed by explosions (it tends to get pretty badly damaged on the way off) but maybe your doctors can be the first.
Re-read my posts. At no time have I suggested doing anything in the least bit dangerous. The "most of the time" statement refers to being able to successfully identify the powder in question. If you can't successfully identify it, then you can't possibly find any loading data, can you? I will repeat my previous comment about some people only reading every other word. Your post is proof of that. You are basically saying that it is dangerous to attempt to use loads found in a reloading manual. |
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I have a couple hundred 223 reloads in which I would like to attempt to identify the powder charge. Assuming it is something common, is it possible, or am I pissing in the wind? There is some confusion in this that you need to explain so we can help you. Are you going to take the powder out and reuse it, try to duplicate the load, or determine if the load is safe to shoot as it is? If you are going to reuse the powder in another load or determine if its safe to shoot as is....don't try it. If you are going to try and duplicate the load and you know the current load is safe....not a problem. There is a thread here where one member duplicated the Hornady TAP round. Give more details so we can try and help you do the right thing. Be smart and don't risk a KA-BOOM! Peace ETA: Link for Infinitegrim copying Hornady TAP 5.56 |
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