Armory Sponsor
Posted: 3/14/2013 9:08:01 PM EDT
|
i'm looking to load up 10mm and 9mm test rounds but i'm having a hard time finding dead on data that shows my specific bullet/powder and I don't want to make a mistake. So perhaps someone can help learn me the ropes of handling this situation.
Here is what I have. The powder is VV N350 for both calibers. Lets start with the 9mm first. I have in 9mm both 124 grain and 147 grain FMJ RN Hornady Looking at Lapua load data on their site i easily find 124 gr FMJ-RN N350 shows 4.9/5.7 min/max However looking up 147grain I see hollow point for hornady and RN for rainer, knowing rainer is coated vs the 147 FMJ RN i thought rainier was to be loaded at rates like lead cast (none of which i see in this data btw). So i look over the list just to see if I can find something to compare and I see down in the 115 grain area exactly what i'm looking for. RN rainer min/max = 5.7/6.4 vs FMJ RN min/max = 5.4/6.5 Funny i would have thought lower grains for the rainer. So from this comparison, i'm thinking I would be safe at 4.2 that is listed for 147 gr rainer and the max of 4.7 is probably where i should test between. See how my pistol does with loads up to the 4.7. Is this correct analysis or have I missed something?? Now...the hard one the 10mm. VV N350 again Rainer 165g FP and 180g FP only 4 loads showing for this at lapua only 1 at 180 and NOT for FP and none showing for 165 g FP. of course rainer site is of no help either. they recommend lead load data or...as they say "If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend a starting powder charge directly between the listed minimum and maximum load" great....back to the powder....who's on first? |
Ya kind of lost me on your questions..... 
Have a look here. 9mm https://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=4644&caliber=9mm&caliberid=60&header=9mm%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data 10mm https://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?metallicid=4654 |
|
You will never be able to match components exactly with your load manuals. After all your firearm IS a component and you are not using what they used.
It is perfectly safe and acceptable to use bullet data of same weight and similar construction from different manufacturer's. Start Low and Work Up. |
|
I was trying to describe how I was attempting to look up and compare data to determine my loads. So to clarify and shorten the question.
I'm trying to identify / confirm load data for: (Data i found is in blue and source) obviously I will start at min, working 4-5 loads up to the max. 10mm with: 165grain FP Rainier and VV N350 (No data found for 165gr) 180 grain FL Rainier and VV N350 (Only a HP (hollow point) is listed) 9mm with: 124 grain Hornady FMJ RN (Min 4.9 max 5.7 Lapua load data from their website, referencing only Lapua FMJ RN bullet) 147 grain Hornady FMJ RN (min 4.2 max 4.7 Lapua load data from their website referencing only a rainier RN (what is CEPP thats another listing, same except for .1 gr under on the max compare to this one.) |
|
Quoted:
I was trying to describe how I was attempting to look up and compare data to determine my loads. So to clarify and shorten the question. I'm trying to identify / confirm load data for: (Data i found is in blue and source) obviously I will start at min, working 4-5 loads up to the max. 10mm with: 165grain FP Rainier and VV N350 (No data found for 165gr) 180 grain FL Rainier and VV N350 (Only a HP (hollow point) is listed) 9mm with: 124 grain Hornady FMJ RN (Min 4.9 max 5.7 Lapua load data from their website, referencing only Lapua FMJ RN bullet) 147 grain Hornady FMJ RN (min 4.2 max 4.7 Lapua load data from their website referencing only a rainier RN (what is CEPP thats another listing, same except for .1 gr under on the max compare to this one.) ok i believe i'm good on the 9mm data from what i've found and researched. Would appreciate some experienced reloaders confirming 
these come from hornady manual 9th edition 9MM DATA 124g fmj rn COL 1.150 4.4g start and max 5.2grain 147 g fmj rn COL 1.165 3.6g start and max 4.6g Next my 10mm having a REALLY hard time with this one. I even subscribed to loaddata.com [---------------------------]Load 1 research for 165grain FP Rainier and VV N350 [/---------------------------] only thing i find is 165g from speer manual #14 but the numbers are from their VV 3N37 and N340 powders, i'm using N350. Can't find zip. Help 
[---------------------------]Load 2 research for 180 grain FL Rainier and VV N350[/---------------------------] For this load I found a few data points. VVV 2nd edition shows speer HP minx 6.1 max 7.4 VV reload guid # 6 shows speer hp min 5.2 max 6.6 lyman shows sierra jacketed HP 7.1 min and 7.9 max Speer manual #14 shows TMJ FN starting 8.9 (1077 FPS) and max 9.7 (1152 FPS) I'm thinking this is the one to use So i'm thinking they are speaking to the FN bullet directly so I should be safe with the start loads and obviously make 5 drops between it and max and watch for issues along the way. OAL appears to be 1.256 on the 10mm. |
|
What speeds are shown with the data you are looking over? All that load data might be producing speeds slow enough for lead.
There's something else about the Rainier's; most many people shoot them like jacketed bullets, or very nearly so. Cut one apart, you'll see the reason, the plating is thick. ETA: Should have read past the first two posts. Again. |
|
so i've got the 9mm load worked up. that was easy since they are hornady rounds.
COL: 1.165 The first is the 147gr book data for n350 is gr / fps 3.6 / 750 3.8 / 800 4.1 / 850 4.3 / 900 4.6 / 950 my test loads are: 3.7 / 3.9 / 4.1 / 4.3 / 4.5 
the next load is for the 124gr book data for n350 is COL 1.150 gr / fps 4.4 /900 4.6 / 950 4.9 / 1000 5.2 / 1050 my test loads are: 4.5 / 4.7 / 4.9 / 5.1 
I'm still compiling all my data on 10mm and will run it up here when i've made my selection and reasoning as it's really a confusing load up due to lack of data. The 9mm i have no concerns with at all. |
|
so for 10mm using N350 and 180 gr. I find
vv guide #6 - bullet speer hp start 5.2 1076 FPS max 6.6 fps 1130 speer #14 - bullet Speer TMJ FN or GDHP start 8.9 1077 fps max 9.7 1152 fps vv data 2nd edition - bullet Speer HP start 6.1 1088 fps max 7.4 1195 fps good god what a spread. now i have used N350 with hornady HAP bullets using the data from the first line above (vv guid #6) and my best shots were with 6.2 grain drop. no pressure signs up to 6.4 So i'm thinking.... make up 3 rounds each run them through the chrono, checking for pressure signs. Back off if I see any or if i see i'm matching the 1150 FPS area. 5.8 6.2 6.4 6.6 6.8 7.0 7.2 7.4 If those all do well maybe try for that 8.9 - 9.7 mark from speer #14 but i somehow doubt it Thoughts? I'll post my 165 grain thoughts next. So with n350 I can't find anything using 165gr. I do find 155 grain so this is that data vv guide 6 shows hornady hp xtp 155 gr start 6.4 1178 fps, max 7.8 1247 fps vv guide 6 also shows rainer 155gr start 7.6 1243 fps max 8.5 1311 fps vv data 2nd edition shows hornady hp xtp 155 gr start 7.3 1192 fps and max 8.6 1331 fps so here....i'm thinking 3 rounds each....see what chrono shows and watch for primer issues. 6.4 6.6 6.8 7.0 7.2 7.4 7.6 7.8 8.0 8.2 8.4 Any feedback on this one? Overall my first round of the lowest charge will be chambered by itself fired and see if it locks my slide back or not. Then confirm primer |
|
all loaded up. Seeing no direct data this is my first venture into. 'Let's see what happens next'.
I will post results if there is interest. It seems the 10mm is rare breed.  I love mine 
oh and since it's ad lib. figured i just stuck in 1.256 COL on both 180 and 165 gr test subjects. |
|
WOW....I must say this was very interesting. I feel I have taken a step above in my reloading path. Like getting a rank in the scouts or something. I now have the merit badge for 'Load Workup from not much data' badge.
So here is my first, the 9mm actually for this there was plenty of data. Hornady book, Hornady bullets, and they listed my powder or the powder had similar listed. So it was run of the mill load and test. Please feel free to provide any feedback you see on any of this as I want to learn if I've overlooked or didn't catch something. As well I know targets speak volumes about what you're doing right / wrong in your marksmanship, feel free to comment there as well. I'm trying to become a better shooter, better reloader/hand loader. So. VV N350 with 9mm 147 gr Hornady FMJ RN BT 
primers, across bottom is lowest charge, top row is highest charge, each row represents the charge for that group. I don't detect any issues here. 
Next the target. Now I must say, this is a pocket 9mm the size of a .380, so I'm only about 200 rounds into it and still getting used to it. Doesn't help that round 2 I got my left thumb nailed from capping my firing hand over top and the slide whacked it good, nice cut too. And being my first reloads in this caliber there is always the thought of, wow this pistol is so darn small any KB is gonna hurt the hands for sure. My meticulousness paid off. I'm thinking I need another test. Will probably drop the 4.3 g and restest that load. Also i notice several seem to tear the paper....is this 'tumbling' rounds? what is causing that? not enough speed? btw....sorry no chrono data. I had to go to indoor range cause my only outdoor pistol spot (read free) well his neighbors must have recently complained and I didn't have time to drive to my 'pay' outdoor range. 
Next was the 124 gr FMJ RN (9mm) 
again no primer issues I can see. (bottom row lightest load again, top row is highest) 
Target data. I'm pleased with the 4.7g I can attribute the down and right to trigger pull and expecting the fire point, by this time I was getting a little more used to the pistol. 
So that's the 9mm. I'll post the 10mm in the next message, having trouble getting pictures uploaded. |
|
10mm load
Ok let's start off with the research. I ordered Rainier bullets from midway. 180 gar and 165 gr. Of course the vendor pretty much states use lead data or in 'absence of' the jacketed round data. Looking for loads with N350 was well....sparse at best. 180gr was easier, 165gr forget it. had to figure it out completely on my own with WAGS....well....not entirely, but rather educated WAGS. Here is what I could find. 
So lets review the 180 gr load up first. 5.8 - 7.4 - Lucky for me I have loaded and shot N350 with Hornady HAP rounds which HAD data, so I knew the 5.2 - 6.6 range would work for HP, but what about FP. Then seeing FN data in 8.9 - 8.7 ranges...wow.... 
primers appear ok to me. again bottom is lowest drop, top is highest. in order bottom to top. 
Target. I really like the 6.8g grouping. The Hornady HAP's in a prior test liked 6.2g as the sweet spot. These like it just a little hotter it seems. I'm making a note to load a 6.9, 7.0 and 7.2 to see if it tightens up anymore. 
Now we get to the group I was really concerned about....the black hole of data. Just 155gr data but here I am with 165gr VV N350. Will it be too little? too much? 
Worked up a nice range on this one. I don't see primer issues, but I can say I started noticing on the 7th group that it was now kicking like I remember my 10mm kicking with factory. So I knew I was getting up there. First time I really consciously noticed a power band. I dont see primer issues either. I think it would be ok to climb carefully another 0.6 grains, but really i have no need to. 
The target...well interesting good things at 6.4g, 6.8g, 7.2g and 8.2g. I know on the 6.8 it was all me on the third round that went lower and same on the missing 8.2 round. 7.2 I jerked a little. So i'm happy with any of these, but will probably go with 6.8 for it was really nice on my aimpoint. 
Unfortunately no chrono due to indoors. and BTW, I did have 1 FTF and it was from a round I already figured would do it do to a failed to fully seat primer. Caught it after it was loaded and wasnt about to attempt to seat it further. It did fire on 2nd attempt and it was in my 9mm thread, you'll probably quickly see the 2 pin strikes :-) another note......missing shells are ones that went to the 'its the ranges zone' up front. Go figure i don't lose a single 9mm brass....ARRRRRRRGGGGGG.....I cringe each time I lose a 10mm, seems to be like hens teeth to get them. |
|
Quoted:
I appreciate your work especially on the 10mm. I don't load 9mm but I do 10mm. I have 3 different 10mm, 2 pistols and a carbine. The 10 is a great cartridge, really under appreciated IMO. Carbine??? Email me pics never knew such a thing existed wow must suck to reload for lol Yea data seems scarce unless very common components. Next will be probably the powder I just use from now on accurate number 7 |
|
A mec-tec upper, kinda looks like an AR upper, with a Glock lower. I actually bought a G21 lower since it and the G20(10mm) lowers are the same. It was much easier to find a used G21, at a much better price. It is a blast to shoot.
I sure wish Springfield would come out with a 10mm XD! |
Armory Sponsor