Armory Sponsor
Posted: 12/26/2012 6:16:52 AM EDT
|
Hello All,
I am going to start reloading the 40 S&W. I will be using 180 grain plated Rainers. Also I have Titegroup, Unique, Blue Dot, WSL, powder. Can you guys( the greater powers)  help a brother out. Ive been told that the 40S&W is a hard round to load. For ex set back increasing pressures, too much pressure and unsupported chambers. Please advise me on what to do. Ammo around here is extreamly hard to find.
Thanks Bob |
|
Quoted:
With the powders you have I would first work up some loads with Unique and then titegroup. Unique is kinda big and less chance of a double charge. YMMV I'm gonna reach a bit and say you don't have load manuals. Questions about set back and pressure are covered in manuals. Several manuals, four that I can think of list accuracy loads in each caliber. Have you checked Ranier website for oal data. If not you match your bullet profile to matching profile found in a manual. Lyman #49 is a good manual for this. If you do have manuals, that's the process. dc. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
With the powders you have I would first work up some loads with Unique and then titegroup. Unique is kinda big and less chance of a double charge. YMMV I'm gonna reach a bit and say you don't have load manuals. Questions about set back and pressure are covered in manuals. Several manuals, four that I can think of list accuracy loads in each caliber. Have you checked Ranier website for oal data. If not you match your bullet profile to matching profile found in a manual. Lyman #49 is a good manual for this. If you do have manuals, that's the process. dc. I take it that you're agreeing with me and just adding to what I said ? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
With the powders you have I would first work up some loads with Unique and then titegroup. Unique is kinda big and less chance of a double charge. YMMV I'm gonna reach a bit and say you don't have load manuals. Questions about set back and pressure are covered in manuals. Several manuals, four that I can think of list accuracy loads in each caliber. Have you checked Ranier website for oal data. If not you match your bullet profile to matching profile found in a manual. Lyman #49 is a good manual for this. If you do have manuals, that's the process. dc. I take it that you're agreeing with me and just adding to what I said ? bt, I read your post and wouldn't disagree. Responses here are generally geared to the original post unless someone pulls your post in quotes with an underlying response. Occasionally threads get side tracked and loose direction. It becomes difficult to know who's responding to what. It's best when responses are kept to original posters questions. I can still use your post to add more to original post and add some to your post. We find oal published in manuals as well charge ranges. OAL isn't cast in stone. There's four guys in another forum who've got a 1911smith lesson plan headed their way after New Years loaded with enough teeth to insure these gentlemen get the message. Hodgdons is closed I guess for the year. Sierra gave their tech staff the rest of the year off. I know that one or all four lurk here. OAL information is pertinent to the test barrel used to collect data. I'll go one better and state charge ranges are pertinent to the test barrel as well. Classic example is .224 projectile data for .223 cartridges. Test barrels are usually bolt guns with 24" barrels in a 1/9 twist. I might be loading for 16", 1/8 twist AR barrel. I can safely compact more powder under my .224 projectile by up to a full grain past Hornady max charge weight using Varget and 75 grain hpbt Why ? 1.) Barrel is 8" shorter. 2.) Faster twist rate. Sierra uses an oal with their 125 grain, 9mm data that would likely blow my KKM, Glock barrel up using Sierra charge range. First thing to do is find a feedable oal and case mouth diameter, then start charge at low side as you suggest. I would add it need be done using chronograph, verifying velocity is within published range since we really don't have an affordable option to gage pressure. I'm exploring purchase options for pressure testing equipment. Equipment isn't cheap. Using listed oal is always preferred, but not essential. Using the 1/32" rule, beginning of ogive coming off straight wall bearing surface be minimum 1/32" seated above case mouth we can safely make do, provided we start low and work our way up. Regards, dc. |
| Watch your OAL this is what causes the increased pressures when it is set back too far, Unique is the powder I started with and had good success with my loads. Other powders will vary so keep a close eye on your steps to avoid possible double charges & seating the bullet too far back. Use a good Caliper to check your OAL about every 5th round during the loading process helps catch any ooops's before your using a bullet puller to pull 500 rounds at a time. |
|
Quoted:
Watch your OAL this is what causes the increased pressures when it is set back too far, Unique is the powder I started with and had good success with my loads. Other powders will vary so keep a close eye on your steps to avoid possible double charges & seating the bullet too far back. Use a good Caliper to check your OAL about every 5th round during the loading process helps catch any ooops's before your using a bullet puller to pull 500 rounds at a time. Have something to say about this too. I know colt_5_5_6 posted knowing the pitfalls of a high pressure round in a short case. Setback won't cause a catastrophic failure in a mechanically sound weapon that's been loaded with a degree of common sense. Catastrophic case failure is typically caused from, but not confined by two things. 1.) Unsupported area found at bottom of chamber. 2.) Overcharges. If we look at catastrophic case failures we find pressure escapes the least path of resistence. Either the bullets exits or pressure pushes against breech to find an exit point. Simply put, there just wasn't enough spring to keep pressure moving with forward momentum before bullet escaped the bore. This is called timing. When set back occurs, neck tension is lost and inertial sling becomes my concern. If bullet stays setback, resisting an inertial drive from returning to battery it has been summised pressure actually drops from lost neck tension and increased lead to bore. |
| I have about 5 load manuals, I was asking about your start loads i have checked Rainiers web page. It just seems that everyone I talk too hates to load 40 S&W. I have never loaded the first one. But however have loaded 10k+ 45acp and 9mm. My thoughts were that it weould be the same as any onther straight walled case. |
|
I would've prefaced your original post with. I have five load manuals and have successfully loaded 10k .45acp. That's welcomed news. I think the process was pretty much outlined in my posts slonebo. I'm sure you were looking for an exact number. I don't have it, but happy to help you through the process of how its done. This is what a quick 1 minute Google netted.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1050277396/rainier-leadsafe-bullets-40-s-and-w-10mm-auto-400-diameter-180-grain-plated-flat-nose Read the reviews. 
eta, pick the manual containing the lowest charge range in 180 grain and work from that. Load Safe, dc. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Watch your OAL this is what causes the increased pressures when it is set back too far, Unique is the powder I started with and had good success with my loads. Other powders will vary so keep a close eye on your steps to avoid possible double charges & seating the bullet too far back. Use a good Caliper to check your OAL about every 5th round during the loading process helps catch any ooops's before your using a bullet puller to pull 500 rounds at a time. Have something to say about this too. I know colt_5_5_6 posted knowing the pitfalls of a high pressure round in a short case. Setback won't cause a catastrophic failure in a mechanically sound weapon that's been loaded with a degree of common sense. Catastrophic case failure is typically caused from, but not confined by two things. 1.) Unsupported area found at bottom of chamber. 2.) Overcharges. If we look at catastrophic case failures we find pressure escapes the least path of resistance. Either the bullets exits or pressure pushes against breech to find an exit point. Simply put, there just wasn't enough spring to keep pressure moving with forward momentum before bullet escaped the bore. This is called timing. When set back occurs, neck tension is lost and inertial sling becomes my concern. If bullet stays setback, resisting an inertial drive from returning to battery it has been surmised pressure actually drops from lost neck tension and increased lead to bore. I agree but it is actually called an out of battery discharge which as has been previouisly mentioned it will follow the path of least resistance typically down the feed ramp through the magazine well, this may vary depending where in the cycle of feeding & discharge of the round the out of batter discharge/detonation takes place. On a side note: bullet set back does cause increased pressures as the case tension could still be present depending on the degree the bullet is set back into the case thus creating a compressed load increasing pressure upon discharge. Deleted. This last part of your post is off topic for this forum. I'll leave it a while until I figure out how it will be dispositioned. Please revisit the posting rules for trainers. AeroE |
|
"Firing out of battery" is a common scapegoat used for overcharges. Actually that's not the case, rather stage in cycle failure occured at. Regardless, both of us agree setback isn't an issue to ignore. Neck tension and adequate crimp safequard setback.
I'd help with your Facebook, except I'm not smart enough to login. |
|
Quoted:
Hello All, I am going to start reloading the 40 S&W. I will be using 180 grain plated Rainers. Also I have Titegroup, Unique, Blue Dot, WSL, powder. Can you guys( the greater powers) help a brother out. Ive been told that the 40S&W is a hard round to load. For ex set back increasing pressures, too much pressure and unsupported chambers. Please advise me on what to do. Ammo around here is extreamly hard to find.
Thanks Bob For 180gr flat points set the cartridge overall length as close as you can get to between 1.120" and 1.125". You'll find that you'll have a lot of variation in seating depth from bullet to bullet with plated rounds and you'll find that setting gives you room to accommodate those variations. I crimp Berry's and Xtreme's to .422", I wouldn't go any less than that on plated or you could break the base loose, and I wouldn't use a LFCD with plated rounds, just FMJs. Now you can get your chronograph out and create a load that won't exceed 950 fps. You can go to 1000 fps but that's pushing too close to the rail for a caliber that is notorious for kabooming guns. 40 S&W is not a round for beginners to cut their teeth on so make sure your scales are dead on and your calipers are accurate and check your powder dispenser and COAL as you go, don't wait till you have 100 rounds loaded to find out the powder charge has drifted up or your seating depth has changed. Edited to add: - Make sure you do a barrel check or a cartridge guage check on each loaded round before you go to the range. You'll find you'll lose between 1% and 3% to sloppy workmanship, glock case bulge and other gremlins. |
|
Go slow and work up safely. Pay particular attention to seating depth and charge weight. As far as crimping goes; make sure you chamfer and debur a case to get the true thickness of the case walls.
I crimp to .417 -.418 using .010" walled cases, and .400" bullets; plated or not. Never had a problem, and rounds fire true. I also use a LFCD on ALL rounds I build for the .40cal.. There's tons of ways to go about the same thing. Just do it safely. |
|
Strangely enough I started my reloading career with .40 S&W. Double-charging generally isn't possible, because the cartridge is designed for high charge density. There just isn't enough room left in the case for a double charge, as you'd then be unable to seat a bullet. I did have a squib load early on, but that's been the only problem, ever.
I don't know why anyone would complain about loading .40 S&W. It is really quite simple to load. There are tons of good bullet choices, and powders. I have personally used Titegroup to load thousands of .40 S&W rounds, using cast lead, plated, and jacketed bullets. The stuff about "unsupported chambers" probably stems from Glocked brass. It is true that the Glock .40 S&W chamber does not support the .40 S&W case as completely as the chambers of some other guns, so you get bulging near the case head. Various solutions have been proposed, including Redding's "G-Rx" die that forces the brass back into shape. My solution has been to avoid reloading for .40 S&W Glocks by not purchasing any .40 S&W Glocks, and not picking up Glocked brass at the range. If I did want to load for a .40 S&W Glock, I'd purchase an aftermarket Glock barrel with conventional rifling (to allow worry-free use of cast lead bullets) and better chamber support (which is true of nearly every aftermarket barrel). According to my records, I have loaded at least 12000 .40 S&W cartridges since I started. If you have any more questions, just ask. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
i use Unique, too. I think it shoots better than the faster powders.
With the powders you have I would first work up some loads with Unique and then titegroup. Unique is kinda big and less chance of a double charge. YMMV Unique is what I'm currently using in 40 also. I was using Power Pistol but I ran out. |
|
These are the most recent 40 S&W loads I have tested.
S&W M&P40 4.25" barrel Factory loads: Winchester white box Target ammo- 180gr FP - 954 fps, ES-71 Hornady TAP - 180gr XTP's - 980 fps, ES-14, SD-5 Hand loads, all 5 shot avg's 180gr Rainier FP, Win brass, Rem 5 1/2 primers, 1.125" COL Unique 5.1 gr's - 974 fps 5.3 gr's - 820 fps 5.5 gr's - 848 fps 5.7 gr's - 901 fps 5.9 gr's - 941 fps 6.0 gr's - 960 fps 6.1 gr's - 983 fps Titegroup 3.5 gr's - 701 fps 3.7 gr's - 737 fps 3.9 gr's - 780 fps 4.1 gr's - 814 fps 4.2 gr's - 829 fps 4.3 gr's - 842 fps 4.5 gr's - 887 fps 4.7 gr's - 917 fps 4.9 gr's - 956 fps Power Pistol 6.1 gr's - 909 fps 6.3 gr's - 945 fps 6.5 gr's - 967 fps 6.7 gr's - 990 fps 6.9 gr's - 1,015 fps The only HP load I have tested is with WSF and was only one load so far. 180gr XTP's, Win brass, Rem 5 1/2 primers, 1.125" COL WSF 5.5 gr's - 903 fps |
Armory Sponsor