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Posted: 12/21/2012 8:36:14 PM EDT
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On most smaller presses (that I have played with), you have to setup each stage individually and then adjust with all stations loaded. Is this also the case with the dillon 1050, or is it rigid enough not to significantly deflect under load?
By significantly deflect, I'm talking more than a couple thousandths total variation specifically due to varying press load (not bullet variations, etc.). |
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.003 oal variation on last run of .38 Super Comp.
Answering your question, yes its stought enough to be true in vertical, horizontal values. Much truer press than 650, but then the 650 is built task specific for high speed pistol production. 1050 builds off the best attributes of 550 & 650. |
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.003 oal variation on last run of .38 Super Comp. Answering your question, yes its stought enough to be true in vertical, horizontal values. Much truer press than 650, but then the 650 is built task specific for high speed pistol production. 1050 builds off the best attributes of 550 & 650. Thanks for the response. Just to clarify, if you set up your seating die first with all other stations empty, and then check the seating with all stations full, your change in OAL/seating depth is less than 0.003"? |
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Do all your final die adjustments with all the stations being used. The most important is the swage station and resize station. Thats where the majority of the loading is applied.
Dont forget to use some Hornady One Shot or other lube. Your shoulder will thank you. |
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Do all your final die adjustments with all the stations being used. The most important is the swage station and resize station. Thats where the majority of the loading is applied. Dont forget to use some Hornady One Shot or other lube. Your shoulder will thank you. I appreciate your answer, but I think you misunderstand where I am coming from. I'm not coming from the perspective of "I have a 1050 and need help setting it up." Actually, I'm designing my own press. I'm at the stage where I need to decide if I want to commit to investing in this thing or just buy a 1050. I do not have a 1050, and I'm not going to buy one just to see if I like it. I have a list of requirements that the LNL AP and 650 do not meet. I have no experience with the 1050, however. One of my requirement is that I must be able to set the stations up individually, and not have to adjust them once all stations are loaded. In my mind, the press and its linkage should be stiff enough that I do not have to do this. If the 1050 meets this requirement, I will just buy a 1050 and be done with it. If not, I am going to move forward with my own design and build it myself. I would really appreciate a numerical answer regarding this question, if anybody has one. Thanks. |
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AP is most "ridgid" of any progressive press I've run to date once the play was removed between ram and subplate. Your issue is die tuning, not the press. There's two schools of thought in setting up dies. One being sequential, two being non-sequential.
Sequential, dies are set in this order. 1.) Sizer 2.) PTX or bell die followed with PM. 3.) Seater 4.) Crimp Non Sequentially a sizer die is used to size a group of brass, say two dozen. Then sizer is pulled. Sized brass is measured for length with longest and shortest kept for setting PTX or bell die. Sizer die is pulled, dies are then set in this order. 1.) PTX or bell die 2.) Seater 3.) Crimp 4.) Sizer OAL variance is actually caused from case height variances. By setting bell or PTX die first to the tallest case height, full extension of ram is made instead of being stopped short in the flare stop of bell or PTX die. I have a method unique to my operation. Most get this and a few don't. My patience is limited for those who don't so if you don't agree, move on. If you have open minded questions feel free to ask away. This is my sequential setting. 1.) PTX or bell die 2.) Crimp 3.) Seater 4.) Readjustment crimp 5.) Sizer This eliminates the back and forth die adjustment. By measuring a size run, taking the tallest height brass. I set PTX or bell die to flare 0.004/0.005 over sized case mouth. Let's use .45acp for example. My sizer runs net 0.468 case mouth diameter. So, I set my PTX or bell die to flare 0.473 for lead, 0.472 for jacketed and lock die in. Advancing to crimp station I set crimp die to return flare to 0.001 under target crimp. If 0.471, adjust crimp die to 0.470. Advancing brass back to flare once again and back to seater station I seat bullet to desired oal and lock die in. Then I advance to crimp station, crimp, adjust die if necessary and lock die in. Check measuements. Verify these are my target dimensions and eject model round. With marker, I indicate oal and crimp on brass to save for another day. Last step is loading my index, taking sized brass, begin loading at PTX or bell die station. Charging, seating and crimp until all but sizer station is full. When full, leave ram extended, run sizer die down until it meets shellplate and no more. Lock die. A tip for locking dies. Best done with die loaded and ram extended. Die doesn't move while tightening lock ring as easily. I've spent the better part of two years working over my presses at great expense. With one exception, everytime someone has said, "my press doesn't do that." I went out and bought that press. Exception being Pro2000 which is somewhere between the AP and 650, closer to the 650 I suspect. This I gathered from reading GWhis posts and comparing his Pro2000 experiences with my own 450, 550, 650, 1050 and AP experiences. We will never get past oal variances in both ogive and bullet height manufactured into our bullets. Only control we bring to these variances are made in purchase decisions. Match grade bullets reduce variances and that's it. Floating tool heads and shellplates are the variances we can control. You didn't ask about variances found using AP and 650. AP variances are everybit as close to ammunition I've loaded using 1050. XL650, depending on the guy tuning press can run from 0.006 to 0.010 plus using 650. Seating dies and bullet choices being the biggest variables. Dillon pistol seating dies create variances other seating dies won't create. Running Dillon dies on my 650, I feel 0.006 total variance to be acceptable but put up with 0.012 variances. You have to appreciate the 650 and Dillon dies for design intent. SPEED. Switching to Redding competition seating dies will help 650 variances a lot, combined with Uniquetek aftermarket tool head. |
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I have a method unique to my operation. Most get this and a few don't. My patience is limited for those who don't so if you don't agree, move on. If you have open minded questions feel free to ask away. This is my sequential setting. 1.) PTX or bell die 2.) Crimp 3.) Seater 4.) Readjustment crimp 5.) Sizer This eliminates the back and forth die adjustment. By measuring a size run, taking the tallest height brass. I set PTX or bell die to flare 0.004/0.005 over sized case mouth. Let's use .45acp for example. My sizer runs net 0.468 case mouth diameter. So, I set my PTX or bell die to flare 0.473 for lead, 0.472 for jacketed and lock die in. Advancing to crimp station I set crimp die to return flare to 0.001 under target crimp. If 0.471, adjust crimp die to 0.470. Advancing brass back to flare once again and back to seater station I seat bullet to desired oal and lock die in. Then I advance to crimp station, crimp, adjust die if necessary and lock die in. Check measurements. Verify these are my target dimensions and eject model round. With marker, I indicate oal and crimp on brass to save for another day. Last step is loading my index, taking sized brass, begin loading at PTX or bell die station. Charging, seating and crimp until all but sizer station is full. When full, leave ram extended, run sizer die down until it meets shell plate and no more. Lock die. A tip for locking dies. Best done with die loaded and ram extended. Die doesn't move while tightening lock ring as easily. I've spent the better part of two years working over my presses at great expense. With one exception, every time someone has said, "my press doesn't do that." I went out and bought that press. Exception being Pro2000 which is somewhere between the AP and 650, closer to the 650 I suspect. This I gathered from reading GWhis posts and comparing his Pro2000 experiences with my own 450, 550, 650, 1050 and AP experiences. We will never get past oal variances in both ogive and bullet height manufactured into our bullets. Only control we bring to these variances are made in purchase decisions. Match grade bullets reduce variances and that's it. Floating tool heads and shell plates are the variances we can control. You didn't ask about variances found using AP and 650. AP variances are every bit as close to ammunition I've loaded using 1050. XL650, depending on the guy tuning press can run from 0.006 to 0.010 plus using 650. Seating dies and bullet choices being the biggest variables. Dillon pistol seating dies create variances other seating dies won't create. Running Dillon dies on my 650, I feel 0.006 total variance to be acceptable but put up with 0.012 variances. You have to appreciate the 650 and Dillon dies for design intent. SPEED. Switching to Redding competition seating dies will help 650 variances a lot, combined with Uniquetek aftermarket tool head. thanks as always for the great insight |
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XL650, depending on the guy tuning press can run from 0.006 to 0.010 plus using 650
are you talking +/- 0.006 to 0.010 or +/- 0.003 to 0.005 ? I use +/- when meaning +/-, but, +/- minus is deceiving to total variance. I'm meaning total variance exactly as posted. +/- .003 is actually .007 total variance if we are discussing +/- 0.003 of target. |
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Quoted:
XL650, depending on the guy tuning press can run from 0.006 to 0.010 plus using 650
are you talking +/- 0.006 to 0.010 or +/- 0.003 to 0.005 ? I use +/- when meaning +/-, but, +/- minus is deceiving to total variance. I'm meaning total variance exactly as posted. +/- .003 is actually .007 total variance if we are discussing +/- 0.003 of target. just making I sure was on same page |
| You will get the most deflection in the tool head of the S1050 when processing brass. Most of which will come from the swager station. For some reason I don't see you making a press with that option. But that's not to say it can't be done. The most ridged set up I could think of would be a hyd cylinder. That would be the ram itself and its travel would be limited at the top and bottom of the travel by stops. Then there would be no pivot points for tolerances to stack. |
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