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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:37:01 PM EDT
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I was out shooting the other day and I had a light primer strike /FTF. I ejected the round and the brass ejected and the bullet stayed in the barrel. Barrel was warm, not too hot. Had about 200 or so rounds through it.
Think this might be due to too long of COAL? I used the method suggested in previous threads to determine my COAL and it seemed to work. I had been using this COAL for 2 years now without a problem (only recently had a few light primer strikes w/ federal primers). I use a light taper crimp when seating the bullet. When I checked my rounds for headspace they have all been comparable with picture number 3 in the diagram below. http://i55.tinypic.com/1433xuh.jpg I've recently switched from a single stage press to a progressive press. I'm thinking maybe I just had one round that may have been seated a little bit longer? My gut tells me to maybe just seat the bullets a just a little bit more. I thought I'd ask for opinions. I've put many rounds that I've reloaded into my M&P and I haven't had another bullet separate from the brass. Any ideas? Current COAL 1.150" for a S&W M&P. plated round nosed 115 gr bullet. |
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Quoted:
Sounds like a squib load.Might have not had a powder charge in it, hence the ftf. Check your other rounds from that lot if you have any left to see if there might be more. Good thing you caught it before you fired again First thing I thought of, if you've been using this OAL without problems and it fits the barrel. |
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Quoted:
So was the primer fired or not? the primer actually did not fire. I cycled the action myself, and only the brass casing came out. There was some powder left in the case and unburnt powder left on top of the magazine stack and some in the slide. So I do not think it was a squib load. I do run the powder cop in my progressive press to help aid w/ squib or double charged loads. |
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Everything about your post says squib to me, but if the primer did truly not go off, then I guess it wasn't. You will often get unburnt powder with a squib.
Your OAL with all of the plated 115gr RN bullets I've personally seen is fine. They ususally have an ogive that matches typical 115gr FMJ-RN pretty well and 1.15" sounds about right (though I do load mine down at 1.125" just because of the short bullet shank). You can test and see if the bullet is sticking in the lead of the rifling by dropping a round in the barrel and pushing on it with your thumb. If it doesn't fall right back out when you invert it, you're in the rifling. Also, it should drop in with a "tink" and not a "thud". Highly scientific, I know. FWIW, M&Ps don't have short leads. That chart is only valid for 1911 pistols, by the way. |
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So was the primer fired or not? the primer actually did not fire. I cycled the action myself, and only the brass casing came out. There was some powder left in the case and unburnt powder left on top of the magazine stack and some in the slide. So I do not think it was a squib load. I do run the powder cop in my progressive press to help aid w/ squib or double charged loads. 1st clue, light hit. 2nd clue, bullet stuck in barrel. 3rd clue, unfired primer. This all adds up to a round that the bullet was out too far in. Many auto pistols will produce what looks like a light hit when the firing pin is struck with the gun out of battery. (not fully closed) You need to find out why you had a long COAL. |
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For what you describe to occur, two things have to happen. One is that the bullet has to be getting jammed into the lands; which would mean that your OAL is too long for your chamber. The second is that your crimp in way too light if racking the slide can pull the bullet out.
To check your OAL, take a fired case and do not resize it. Seat a bullet very long into it with your fingers. Puch the bullet into the chamber until the case rim bottoms out. Carefully remove the bullet and measure the OAL; this is the OAL that touches the lands. Your max OAL will need to be just shorter than this measurement for that bullet/chamber combination. |
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Actually there are three concerns here.
1.) OAL 2.) Neck tension 3.) Light primer strike on Federal primer. Federal primers are what we switch to because of light primer strikes. Thin cups, so there's likely a gunsmith issue hiding in the wood pile some place. Bullet lodged in forcing cone might/might not be oal issue. More likely to be than not. Can't dismiss bullet being inertia slung either. You state this is a new occurance to a known to you reload, so your question should be what's changed ? Has the pistol experienced other issues lately ? What's changed ? |
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Quoted:
Actually there are three concerns here. 1.) OAL 2.) Neck tension 3.) Light primer strike on Federal primer. Federal primers are what we switch to because of light primer strikes. Thin cups, so there's likely a gunsmith issue hiding in the wood pile some place. Bullet lodged in forcing cone might/might not be oal issue. More likely to be than not. Can't dismiss bullet being inertia slung either. You state this is a new occurance to a known to you reload, so your question should be what's changed ? Has the pistol experienced other issues lately ? What's changed ? 1) I have kept the OAL the same as previous reloads. 2) When I switched to the progressive press I did go with a lighter crimp. It now barely leaves a crimp mark on the bullet as compared to previously. I can add photos of the two different crimp marks left on old bullets (my heavier versus lighter crimp today). 3) light primer strike - this has been a new occurance. It never happened when using factory or reloaded ammunition before. I have had 2 or 3 in my past 1000 rounds of reloads. In the previous 2-3 instances I was able to rechamber the round and when the firing pin hit the primer again the round went off. the pistol has not experienced any other issues besides a few light primer strikes in the past 1000 rounds. I may have 8-9k shots through this pistol so far. I think after reading through all of the comments I will slightly increase my crimp and re-test my headspace. I did not try some of the suggested methods listed in this thread. thanks for the help |
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Quoted:
Actually there are three concerns here. 1.) OAL 2.) Neck tension 3.) Light primer strike on Federal primer. Federal primers are what we switch to because of light primer strikes. Thin cups, so there's likely a gunsmith issue hiding in the wood pile some place. Bullet lodged in forcing cone might/might not be oal issue. More likely to be than not. Can't dismiss bullet being inertia slung either. You state this is a new occurance to a known to you reload, so your question should be what's changed ? Has the pistol experienced other issues lately ? What's changed ? #3 could have been caused by primer not seated all the way. I could see this happen as you are getting used to a new press. If the primer wasn't seated all the way, the firing pin/striker might have used it's energy to seat the primer instead of igniting it. |
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It would have to be really long to have the rifling unseat a 115gr projectile. I made a few 124gr loads too long for my CZ 75 and they just wouldn't chamber fully to fire. It really sounds like OP had a squib, and removal and inspection of the primer could confirm this. My brother was trying to be extremely cheap and went below the powder manufacturers minimum. He had a lot of bullets that did not clear a pistol barrel. I would expect a piece or three of walnut shells in the primer flash hole might cause a similar event. I suggest buying a Dillon powder check die for your press. This insures you have sufficient powder in the case to push the bullet fully out of the barrel. I had a bunch of 147 grain bullet/loads not fully chamber in my 9mm AR for other physics reasons, but they all fired and the bullets all cleared the 16" barrel just fine. Not fully chambering and firing out of battery should cause a very black case and a bulge. |
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