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Posted: 5/7/2012 3:14:02 PM EDT
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Is it worthwhile?
I know if you are looking for accuracy, reloading is generally beneficial. My question is, are the savings really there if you are just out plinking and not competition shooting? |
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I can buy M193 ammo (new 2011 Lake City by Federal) for $6.99 per box of 20 at a place nearby. There's no shipping cost, but there is sales tax on it. Ignoring the tax (because I'm paying tax on most of my reloading components as well), the price is 37 cents per cartridge. I reload using Winchester 748 powder, CCI magnum small rifle primers, and Hornady 55gr FMJ BT (with cannelure) bullets and my price per cartridge is 23 cents (again, not including sales tax). I can load the 55gt Hornady soft points (with cannelure) for close to the same price. There's labor involved and an investment in equipment to do the reloading. I've always had everything needed in the equipment line except for a set of dies, but the whole package can be expensive depending on choices made. My load is noticeably more accurate though the muzzle velocity is about 100 to 150 feet per second slower than the M193 ammo. Most of my testing has been at 50 yards and my sight is an EOTech EXPS2-0 (zero magnification red-dot type sight) with old eyes behind the sight. I can keep my loads inside a 1-1/2" group all day long if I do my job carefully while the M193 almost always groups at about 2-1/2" under the same conditions. I use a 50-yard zero for plinking out to 125 yards or so. |
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This is the kind of info I was hoping for, thanks for everyone's input.
I do reload for all my bolt guns, but this is my first AR and wasn't sure if the savings would justify the time involved. From what I'm reading, it certainly will. This may be a silly question to those with AR experience, but can I use the same dies that I use for my .223 rifles? |
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This may be a silly question to those with AR experience, but can I use the same dies that I use for my .223 rifles? Yes. I have also a set of small base dies a friend gave me but have not had to use them even for 4th or 5th loads. You are coming at this thing same way I did. A Savage bolt gun followed by a Ruger M77 Predator which I still own, and now the AR's. I've loaded for over 3 decades but only recently started loading for the AR's. |
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Quoted:
This is the kind of info I was hoping for, thanks for everyone's input. I do reload for all my bolt guns, but this is my first AR and wasn't sure if the savings would justify the time involved. From what I'm reading, it certainly will. This may be a silly question to those with AR experience, but can I use the same dies that I use for my .223 rifles? Yes You don't have to use small base sizing dies but some feel it ensures a more reliable round for semi auto use. Some people on the other hand claim it works the brass excessively and shortens case life. As a bolt action shooter you may already be familiar with neck sizing only. I've seen no evidence to support this, but I've never really done a case life study of small base vs regular sizing die. Reloading can and will save you money and will ensure a more accurate and consistent cartridge for less than commercial/military ammo. |
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I don't reload as much as some people, but it seems I can buy it for nearly the cost of reloading. However, I use Sierra 65 and 68 grain soft points. The difference in accuracy is phenominal. Even with a scope, I can barely keep my 3 Colt HBARS shooting within 3-4 inches at 100 yards. With my handloads, the groups are 1-1.5 inches with just 2-7X Leupolds, or 1 inch and under with 10-12 power tactical scopes. The point of impact between the ball ammo and my loads is considerable though. For any kind of serious shooting, it would be my loads for long distance, or mil-spec out of my m4geries.
Oh, after chambering problems in my 7.62 rifles, I use small base dies for 7.72 and 5.56. They work great. |
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Quoted: This may be a silly question to those with AR experience, but can I use the same dies that I use for my .223 rifles? Yes. However, I've gone over to an RCBS Competition Die set (advertised as .223) because with the Competition bullet seating die, it's MUCH easier to start a bullet - especially the flat-based bullets like the soft-point Hornady bullets. The Competition resizing die is also a lot better than the one in the plain RCBS set. I also use a Lee "Factory Crimp" die to finish off the loading. |
| Fyi there is an entire reloading forum I started off loading 223 for my ar 556 and 223 both use 223 dies. don't know if you are only neck sizing for your bolt guns but full length is the way to go with ar I haven't had a need for small base. Definately worth it gun show surplus $0.30 a round my (more accurate reloads) $0.20 a round. If you go with surplus pulled bullets and powder and wolf primers I think some are down to like $0.12 a round |
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As for small base dies, they are certainly necessary in some guns and not so much in others.
Case in point a friend's Mini-14 that simply would not function with standard dies, yet worked well with SB dies. Then again, I had a 7400 I bought to experiment with and that cob would jam on the 4th reload of cases sized with regular or SB dies, without regard. |
| I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk, but the price comparison assumes you have brass to load those projectiles into so you would also have an initial investment in brass or loaded rounds in addition to reloading equipment. I agree that you can certainly get better accuracy out of reloads than factory ammo. |
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I plan on reloading .223 for my AR as well. After looking at your last photo, I noticed that the powder really fills the case and it seems like it would be compressed when seating the bullet - is this normal for the .223 or is it due to your choice of powder? Also, could you tell me what powder you are using?
Thanks, Danny |
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Quoted:
I plan on reloading .223 for my AR as well. After looking at your last photo, I noticed that the powder really fills the case and it seems like it would be compressed when seating the bullet - is this normal for the .223 or is it due to your choice of powder? Also, could you tell me what powder you are using? Thanks, Danny Im using Hodgdon H380 spherical smokeless powder. The powder settles a teeny bit more than the photos depict but I do load to near max capacity. |
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Small base dies are not normally needed for ammo for an AR. I use a FL 223 sizing die for my loads. Depending on the powder and load, it's totally normal to have compressed loads. Ball powder is being used in that pic, no way to tell which from a pic.  This is 27.0 grs of Re-15 in a 223 case.
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Quoted:
Small base dies are not normally needed for ammo for an AR. I use a FL 223 sizing die for my loads. Depending on the powder and load, it's totally normal to have compressed loads. Ball powder is being used in that pic, no way to tell which from a pic. This is 27.0 grs of Re-15 in a 223 case. I answered what powder I use in the post right above yours lol. Hodgdon H380 |
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My rule-of-thumb is that my reloads cost less than half of what any brass cased factory ammo costs, whether they are plinking FMJs, high dollar match ammo, or premium hunting rounds. Sometimes as low as a quarter of factory ammo cost. So, depending on how much you shoot, yes it is worth it. The more you shoot, the more it is worth it, if you enjoy it. And as has been said, SB dies are usually not required. I started out with SB dies, and switched to a FL Redding size die. No issues with 3 ARs. YMMV.
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Quoted:
I promise I'm not trying to be a jerk, but the price comparison assumes you have brass to load those projectiles into so you would also have an initial investment in brass or loaded rounds in addition to reloading equipment. I agree that you can certainly get better accuracy out of reloads than factory ammo. Good point. It's good advice for someone who plans to reload some day to begin saving brass soonest as possible. By the time I bought my press, I had a little over a thousand cases saved up. |
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I just took the plunge into 223. With components and reloading equip off the EE, it really wasn't too costly.
An old timer i spoke to said, "I used to reload so I could shoot more, now I shoot so I can reload more." Point being, reloading can be kindof fun. I get bored easily, so I do 50 rounds here and there, so its not bad. For 1000 rounds my cost will be somewhere around $105-125. Equipment cost ~$100 (i already had a press, calipers, etc.) Even if you have to buy 100% of the stuff needed now, it'll pay itself off in a few thousand rounds. If you shoot some less common calibers it really pays off. |
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