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Posted: 3/27/2012 2:18:55 PM EDT
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So after ~14 years reloading, it finally happened to me last night.... a squib. Was putting a few rounds through my G17 and then *click*... Hrm, eject mag, pull slide back - spent casing. Everything looks fine I think to myself. Stick mag back in, chamber new round.... Then it occurs to me - wait a second. I drop the mag, pull the slide back and eject the live round. I pull out my little flashlight and hold it up to the muzzle. Oh that's interesting, I don't see any light coming out of the chamber  Disassembled the gun, hold barrel up and what do you know, there's my bullet just into the lands. Thus ends my shooting session. I loaded that batch on my xl650 and the other 400+ rounds haven't given me any problems, but undercharged seems to be the only reasonable explanation. Something must have happened with that one round and it managed to get by me  Just a friendly reminder that when something goes wrong, take a moment and really consider what happened before you try to fire another round. I'm glad my brain kicked in before I pulled the trigger (My G17 is even happier!). I was on autopilot for a moment since I've never had it happen before in 20 years of shooting  |
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So after ~14 years reloading, it finally happened to me last night.... a squib. Was putting a few rounds through my G17 and then *click*... Hrm, eject mag, pull slide back - spent casing. Everything looks fine I think to myself. Stick mag back in, chamber new round.... Then it occurs to me - wait a second. I drop the mag, pull the slide back and eject the live round. I pull out my little flashlight and hold it up to the muzzle. Oh that's interesting, I don't see any light coming out of the chamber Disassembled the gun, hold barrel up and what do you know, there's my bullet just into the lands. Thus ends my shooting session. I loaded that batch on my xl650 and the other 400+ rounds haven't given me any problems, but undercharged seems to be the only reasonable explanation. Something must have happened with that one round and it managed to get by me Just a friendly reminder that when something goes wrong, take a moment and really consider what happened before you try to fire another round. I'm glad my brain kicked in before I pulled the trigger (My G17 is even happier!). I was on autopilot for a moment since I've never had it happen before in 20 years of shooting i cant tell you how many times i drilled on hangfire/misfires in the Navy. making sure the bore is clear is like second nature to me. |
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In my 45+ years of reloading I've only had one squib, and that was before I bought my Dillon 550 almost 30 years ago. I pulled the trigger and got a pop instead of a bang, I knew instantly what it was, checked for an obstruction and found a bullet stuck midway down the barrel of the 9mm pistol. This was back when I was carefully loading one case at a time, but I have been extremely careful since I started loading on the Dillon, the highest chance of an error is when your rhythm gets interrupted, I very carefully examine everything before I restart the process. |
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YEAH I had a simliar instance with a1911 but the problem was no powder not just too little. It was reaN I lly difficult to open the slide but when I did it was obvious no powder obviously the rest got pulled.
I did have another instance this time withmy father's reloads however. He passed away a few years and ago and I inherited a 357 revolver and lots of ammo. Some of it loaded with H110 and pretty heavily lubed cases, yeah pistol cases lubed (non carbide dies from the late 60's I think). I was shooting and I just assumed I fired all six well no dice. Primer went off but the round failed to ignite. There was unburnt powder everywhere. Glad I didn't try again as it was a bear to get the bullet out. Now I am a spaz about squib loads. |
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The click should've been a pop, likened to cork popping. FYI for everyone else reading who've never experienced a squib.
There's two types of loaders. Those who've had a squib and those that will. Question is will you catch in time to avoid humping or blowing barrel ? Hopefully, there was something that caused index to stop, like a sideways primer ? Whatever the scenario hopefully your issue was as simple as one case not being charged because ram wasn't fully extended. That's best case scenario. Worst case scenario. The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Might check it out before your next post that very well could be full of "glad you're ok." |
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Worst case scenario. The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Might check it out before your next post that very well could be full of "glad you're ok." I damn near let that scenario play out on my 550. Caught the squib, then realized I'd dumped the missing charge in another case. I use "bulky" powders for everything except 38spl now. |
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Never had one, but with someone who did and got them to stop before they fired another round.
Started handloading at 16, 52 and some change now. Watch, listen and pay attention...double checking only takes a few seconds. Worked for me this long, hope it lasts and it will as long as I follow my own advice. Danny
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Quoted: The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. I think I'll set up the collet puller and yank the rest of that batch. There's not too many left, maybe 100 rounds or so. Don't think I could possibly double charge on the 650, I'm thinking it was probably an incomplete pull due to me getting interrupted as you said. But better safe than sorry. Thanks for the advice. |
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The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. I think I'll set up the collet puller and yank the rest of that batch. There's not too many left, maybe 100 rounds or so. Don't think I could possibly double charge on the 650, I'm thinking it was probably an incomplete pull due to me getting interrupted as you said. But better safe than sorry. Thanks for the advice. Was my thought too, either you get a charge or you don't with the auto index , I run the powder check setup for a little more piece of mind |
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Quoted: Was my thought too, either you get a charge or you don't with the auto index , I run the powder check setup for a little more piece of mind I actually have the powder check system but have been having issues with the sleeve sticking in the die so that it doesn't fall back down after the ram goes down. Going to have to try and fix that I suppose. |
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I occasionally take time to visualize myself shooting and having any of the signs of a squib, so that if/when it happens, I will hopefully already have that sort of condition programmed into my automatic responses.
If you want something to happen automatically, practice, practice, practice. |
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The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. I think I'll set up the collet puller and yank the rest of that batch. There's not too many left, maybe 100 rounds or so. Don't think I could possibly double charge on the 650, I'm thinking it was probably an incomplete pull due to me getting interrupted as you said. But better safe than sorry. Thanks for the advice. Might try weighing all those cartridges first to see if any are WAY high or low. Depending on the original charge weight, it *may* be possible for you to rule out a cartridge with no powder or double-charged just by weighing rather than by pulling them all apart. Just a thought. |
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The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. I think I'll set up the collet puller and yank the rest of that batch. There's not too many left, maybe 100 rounds or so. Don't think I could possibly double charge on the 650, I'm thinking it was probably an incomplete pull due to me getting interrupted as you said. But better safe than sorry. Thanks for the advice. Might try weighing all those cartridges first to see if any are WAY high or low. Depending on the original charge weight, it *may* be possible for you to rule out a cartridge with no powder or double-charged just by weighing rather than by pulling them all apart. Just a thought. its a thought, but you're looking for about 5 grains in 150 grain cartridge. |
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The pop is pretty obvious and you should be able to catch it, and I have stopped a shooter in that situation working as an SO, but sometimes if you are really unlucky, it might happen when you are shooting a stage which requires a rapid fire string, then you are pretty much SOOL. Have not happen to me either way, but I always wonder about it when I walk up to one of those COF, no way anyone is fast enough to stop themselves in time since you are just pulling the trigger as fast as you can, your only hope that the bullet does not go in far enough so that the next round will not seat completely. |
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I occasionally take time to visualize myself shooting and having any of the signs of a squib, so that if/when it happens, I will hopefully already have that sort of condition programmed into my automatic responses. If you want something to happen automatically, practice, practice, practice. In rapid fire scenario. Take my P18-9 for instance. An experience that's been described by other htf members as "an experience surpassing sex." So much that one skeptic after shooting pistol went home and apologized to his wife for his indiscretion. It's routine to invite a few for an htf range get together. We load up 20 round magazines, inviting the guys to cook through mags fast as possible. With trigger having tenth second reset. It takes less than 5 seconds to dump a magazine. You might pretend you will catch one in rapid fire, odds are you won't. If you're response is, "I don't rapid fire." Mine is in return, sorry. If you have guns you'd enjoy shooting in rapid fire but don't trust your craftsmanship. There's an issue you might want to consider. My powder cop is my eye. Given my AADTHD, whatever the hell it is. If distracted and ANY doubt in my mind an eye wasn't put inside a cartridge the entire run is pulled. Another reason to keep runs small. I've got just a few primer tubes so when one runs empty I sit down to load, pulling run and packaging. After packaged I have no idea who might be firing it from my gun or theirs or how slow or fast it will be run. With a company slogan of "my 1911s run like machine guns mounted by raped apes with sights trained on King Kong." I can almost bet it will be rapid fire. That's confidence in your work. |
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The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. I think I'll set up the collet puller and yank the rest of that batch. There's not too many left, maybe 100 rounds or so. Don't think I could possibly double charge on the 650, I'm thinking it was probably an incomplete pull due to me getting interrupted as you said. But better safe than sorry. Thanks for the advice. Might try weighing all those cartridges first to see if any are WAY high or low. Depending on the original charge weight, it *may* be possible for you to rule out a cartridge with no powder or double-charged just by weighing rather than by pulling them all apart. Just a thought. its a thought, but you're looking for about 5 grains in 150 grain cartridge. Yeah - probably right. And he only has 100 (or so) rounds to take apart, so not a huge issue. |
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The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. I think I'll set up the collet puller and yank the rest of that batch. There's not too many left, maybe 100 rounds or so. Don't think I could possibly double charge on the 650, I'm thinking it was probably an incomplete pull due to me getting interrupted as you said. But better safe than sorry. Thanks for the advice. Might try weighing all those cartridges first to see if any are WAY high or low. Depending on the original charge weight, it *may* be possible for you to rule out a cartridge with no powder or double-charged just by weighing rather than by pulling them all apart. Just a thought. If you can fit a double charge in the case, you are using the wrong powder/charge in my opinion. You ought to have it so that it'll spill over if you double charge it. On pistol cases, I have plenty of ambient light to visually see every charge as its running through. |
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On some pistol calibers, if you are using a fast powder (and they are very popular), you can fit a triple charge in a case without overflowing. That's one of the reasons I use Trail Boss in my revolver loads now, its so bulky you can't fit a bullet in the case with a double charge. |
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The charge intended for squib is in another case. Meaning double charge is laying, coiled for strike. Chances are you've got a rattle snake on the loose. Yeah, I hadn't considered that. I think I'll set up the collet puller and yank the rest of that batch. There's not too many left, maybe 100 rounds or so. Don't think I could possibly double charge on the 650, I'm thinking it was probably an incomplete pull due to me getting interrupted as you said. But better safe than sorry. Thanks for the advice. Might try weighing all those cartridges first to see if any are WAY high or low. Depending on the original charge weight, it *may* be possible for you to rule out a cartridge with no powder or double-charged just by weighing rather than by pulling them all apart. Just a thought. If you can fit a double charge in the case, you are using the wrong powder/charge in my opinion. You ought to have it so that it'll spill over if you double charge it. On pistol cases, I have plenty of ambient light to visually see every charge as its running through. All else being equal, it would be best to have a powder that basically fills the available space in the case (considering the bullet seating depth). Unfortunately, there are other considerations in powder selection. For me, in 9mm, I look for these considerations; (a) velocity production (within pressure specs), (b) efficiency (% of powder burned), (c) clean-burning powders, (d) powders that meter well (progressive press) - and even some other considerations depending on application. In other words, powder density is but one of several characteristics considered in powder selection - and for each of us it might be (will be) in a different position on our priority list of considerations. Again - FWIW |
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There's two extremes to anything.
I cringe when I hear use case filling powder to avoid double charges as the sole criteria for powder selection. I never say anything to avoid conflicting basics taught here for new handloaders. Your points are most valid. There's a lot involved for appropriate, use based powder selection. I just want to scream when hearing, "what powder should I use." Except how to make it all fit. I know others have tried to elevate discussion. It's hard to have a discussion relevant to your points when forum attention span is confined to press and die tuning issues. Which tumbler to buy ? What color Kool-Aid is good ? Stuck cases ? What bullet puller ? What lube ? I'm dying for a meaningful discussion on powder selection and how to read data to determine what powder is best suited for intended load. Just about the time we get one new crop learned up a spell in comes a tsunami of new guys. Promising handloaders mixed with a few characters. Yes, I couldn't agree more to the points you've made. One powder I use a lot of but dare not talk about is VihtaVouri N310. I'd spend more time worrying about misuse than good use. So we teach case filling powders, saving N310 for the boys over at ENOS or where ever they land from here. I'm able to follow a few while lurking other forums saving post time for here. |
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I use "bulky" powders for everything except 38spl now. I'm relatively new, don't load very much pistol. Some .45, 9mm, .380. I use Win 231 for all of them and it's worked fine, but I'm not emotionally attached to it. Just curious what bulky powders you suggest. I like the idea of that kind of systemic/engineering control to reduce the risk of doubling a case. Thank you. |
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"Trailboss" is a very "bulky" powder. It is designed to fill the case.
I personally use W231 for my 9mm, 38 special, and 45acp. I just like the powder, and it works well for me. Yes, you could triple charge a 38 special with it, but you just got to be in the right frame of mind and no distractions while reloading. I just banged out 40 test loads of 357 mag now that I am alone and everyone is sleeping. |
Distractions, "autopilot", and multi-tasking are the bane of reloading. And, for some of us, there are "senior moments".
When I was developing CAS and Low Recoil loads for my 44 mag, I used a "squib stick": basically a wooden dowel with a "go" mark for empty barrel + empty chamber. |
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i had my 1st squib last month. kinda scared the shit out of me.....because i tried and tried and tried to get that next round to seat! the squib was just afr enough in there to just BARELY keep the 1911 action open. if i could have gotten the action closed it would have been a very bad day for my pistol and possibly myself.
the worst part is after the click (i only heard a click) i ejected the case and saw it was an empty case! i should have know right there! i could not figure out what i did. i use a 650. i was afraid i was going to have to pull the entire batch. i called dillon fearing that the missed charge was in the next case. dillon assured me that it is nearly impossible to double charge a case (with out me actually trying to make it double charge) this made me feel better. it turns out that i did not have the powder return spring adjusted correctly, the parts with the little blue plastic wing nut on it. the wing nut should be adjusted so that the spring is just tight enough to get a piece of paper to slide in and out between the spring when you push the handle forward. the guy at dillon educated me. basically with out it adjusted correctly you could geta smaller charge or no charge. in the end it all worked out. the rest of the batch fired fine. eddie |
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It's easy to go on "auto pilot" when you're reloading. Like when you're driving and thinking about something; when you look up you're 10 miles farther down the road and don't really remember how you got there. A scary feeling when staring down a pile of loaded cartridges.
A discussion about instituting procedures to avoid that type of thing would be a good one. Like forcing yourself to step away from the press for 10 minutes when you find your mind wandering instead of telling yourself "just a few more." One habit I have tried to reinforce is putting a good strong light right into the cartridge mouth and eyeball each cartridge before placing the bullet. |
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This is a very good point! I reload using a Lee Classic turret for my pistol rounds and even though I am very careful and always check powder with an LED light before I put the bullet on top, the auto pilot thing is always possible. My iron clad rule is to never load more than 50 rounds at one sitting, I can load a few hundred rounds a day but there has to be a significant brake in between each 50 round session. |
Well I think I finally got my powder check system working again which should hopefully help me prevent this from happening again. Ever since I got it the barrel likes to stick in the die so it won't drop back down fully to check the next case. First thing that was wrong was the blue battery compartment/sensor bit was being held way too tightly, it didn't want to let it drop back down so I took that apart and filed out the connection holes a bit so now it drops freely back down. The other thing I did was chuck the barrel ended bit that drops into the die into my drill press and hit it the full length with some 800 grit sandpaper. Smoothed it out quite a bit so it's acting like it wants to drop freely again. Will hopefully try a string of 9mm again this weekend and see how it works out 
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I've had underpowered loads that didn't cycle the slide enough a few times. And I remember once having a squib load that suck the bullet in the barrel. It's been a few years now, so I can't quite remember the details exactly. This is when I was first getting into reloading. I could tell that it didn't feel right. The slide didn't move at all. I checked the barrel and saw it before I put another round down the tube. Luckily I did since this was with my Wilson. Took it home and pounded the round out with a wooden dowel.
If I was rapid firing it wouldn't have mattered in my instance as the slide didn't cycle enough to eject the casing or put a new round in. |
| I have only had one but it changed the way I reload now. One of the improvements I made was the led light kit for my press. I load on a progressive if I stop or get distracted I pull all the cases. I think was squib was from an undercharged load. I was lucky the case didn't extract. |
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I haven't had a squib yet but I maybe a close one? Running 4.7gr Unique behind 124gr JHP's I did have
one round that was more of a loud pop than a bang. It was also extra smokey and sooted up the casing pretty good. It was odd enough that I checked the barrel but luckily it was clear. Not sure how this happened on the 650. The powder is 8 years old but only one problem out of thousands of rounds. I'm thinking it was undercharged somehow and the soot if from the case not expanding enough. So far I'm in the "reloader that hasn't had a squib" and I intend to stay in this category as long as possible. 
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I haven't had a squib yet but I maybe a close one? Running 4.7gr Unique behind 124gr JHP's I did have one round that was more of a loud pop than a bang. It was also extra smokey and sooted up the casing pretty good. It was odd enough that I checked the barrel but luckily it was clear. I obviously can't say for certain but it could've been that the case ruptured. I've had a few 9mm casings that had been reloaded one too many times and then finally let go. When they did so I got a loud pop like you said and a lot of funny black smoke like a chimney from the action. Gun didn't cycle at all when this happened. I'm not talking about a case rupture like the kabooms you hear about. This was real gentle. |
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I have 650's and if I have a problem when loading, I remove all brass from the shellplate, resolve the problem, then resume loading. The removed brass gets tossed into a cigar box. Once I finish off and empty the casefeed system, I then process the stuff from the cigar box. This eliminates any chance of a double charge or missed primer due to the interruption.
Another 650 tip is I always start each press cycle by pushing handle forward to seat a primer in case I forgot or was unable to. |
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