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Posted: 3/21/2012 7:33:03 AM EDT
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Ok, so I have read as much of the sticky above that I could muster. Downloaded the load spreadsheets for rifle and handgun. Did my research on component prices and determined that I can save enough money reloading at my level of shooting to make reloading worth it.
I have a few questions: Primers (.223 plinking loads) - I see that people are having good luck with Wolf primers. For .223/5.56 I need a small rifle primer...but regular or magnum? The load spreadsheet doesn't show that and it appears some loads use magnum and some use regular but it's not clear to a novice like myself on that spreadsheet. Lake City Brass - I'm debating going with a Dillon 650XL with a Dillon Bench Mounted swedger. I'll reload about 1000/mo. Would this setup be overkill? Cause I am still looking at the 1050 too. Books - People have been reloading for a long time now...and a lot of that old wisdom isn't on the internet but in books. What are the must read books for a new reloader? Progressive vs. Single Stage for a new person - I've read all the arguments both ways. But I refuse to pay for something twice. So I've concluded that I will just have to be attentive, slow, and deliberate while learning on a progressive... And patient because it appears setting up a progressive can be tricky (especially for a new guy). |
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Well I am no expert but Ill give my .02
I say the biggest thing that most people will tell you to start with a single stage. This will help learn fundemental etc. My biggest point is not a whole lot to screw up. Were in Progressive set up lot more moving parts and from what I read more thing to calibrate to make everything run smoothly, which is not a problem to anyone that has a progressive set. Everthing in reloading needs calibration of some sort. IM not saying this isnt a way to go. I plan on getting myself a Dillon when Me and my wife move into a house. The other thing is dont look at it if your paying double for two different set up. Each set up (progressive and single stage) has its own right on the bench. Again from reading what many people have is a similar set is they do load development on the single stage, when they find what they like they crank out rounds out on. As for books the main books (if you havent read them before) is everyone suggests the Lyman 49th, I dont have this book yet but plan on it. The books i have used is a Hornady 2nd or 3rd edition (they are to the 8th now), the latest Sierra book 5th edition and the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition (modified). Now from these books are both good and bad. The hornady book its old yes but ive used this and worked well me. Personally I like the grid style of the hornady books. Sierra books are similar to them but the nice thing they do is give you the information bout what firearm they used on how they got their results. Bad thing about this book it doesnt have a lot of odd ball calibers in their (if you have any) Such as 6.8 SPC (unless its been modified since then). As for the Lee its a catch 22 IMO. I got it cheap. It is very specfic to the Lee products ie tells what dippers to use auto disks etc. Yet they heavily pitch Lee product more so than anyother book ive read. Eventually i hope to own all the books so I have multiple refrences. As for your other two questions I am unable to answer ( no experience in that all) |
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Quoted:
Ok, so I have read as much of the sticky above that I could muster. Downloaded the load spreadsheets for rifle and handgun. Did my research on component prices and determined that I can save enough money reloading at my level of shooting to make reloading worth it. I have a few questions: Primers (.223 plinking loads) - I see that people are having good luck with Wolf primers. For .223/5.56 I need a small rifle primer...but regular or magnum? The load spreadsheet doesn't show that and it appears some loads use magnum and some use regular but it's not clear to a novice like myself on that spreadsheet. Lake City Brass - I'm debating going with a Dillon 650XL with a Dillon Bench Mounted swedger. I'll reload about 1000/mo. Would this setup be overkill? Cause I am still looking at the 1050 too. Books - People have been reloading for a long time now...and a lot of that old wisdom isn't on the internet but in books. What are the must read books for a new reloader? Progressive vs. Single Stage for a new person - I've read all the arguments both ways. But I refuse to pay for something twice. So I've concluded that I will just have to be attentive, slow, and deliberate while learning on a progressive... And patient because it appears setting up a progressive can be tricky (especially for a new guy). I started out reloading on a Lee Loader for 357 Mag given to me by my older brother when I was a teenager - a LOOOONG time ago. Some years later I moved to a Lee turret press - and then moved overseas for a long while. Now, just getting back into reloading, I studied up on the latest and greatest and ended up with a Hornady LNL Progressive. Still have the turret press on the bench and I use it for rifle cartridge loading and some functions the progressive cannot handle (such as bullet removal with the Hornady collet bullet remover or case swaging with the CH4 swager). Soooo . . . a couple of points: One is - at least with the Hornady LNL progressive, it is pretty easy to run a single case through the stations so that you can learn the process of reloading. I imagine it would be the same with the Dillon 650 - though I have no experience with it so I cannot say for certain. In fact, with the Hornady each time I do a caliber change, I spend some time running single rounds through the stations to insure proper powder throw - bullet depth - crimp depth - and so on. Another point is that it is probably a good idea to have a single stage press in addition to your progressive. There are just some things the single stage can do that a progressive cannot - as in the examples I mentioned earlier. While I am using my old Lee Turret press, there is enough 'play' in the turret that I am thinking of replacing it with a simple 'C' or 'O' press that is more rock solid. I am like you in not wanting to "pay for something twice" - but for me, I look at it that I want/need the best equipment for the intended function and it led me to having both a progressive and a single-stage press on my reloading bench. Best of luck to you with your choices. I have thoroughly enjoyed my return to shooting and reloading - even when I pulled a few hundred bullets after I discovered my old Sierra reloading manual published a load that was WAY too hot. Thank Heaven for that Hornady collet puller! I hope this helps. |
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How many calibers are you reloading, and what is your budget? Is this a means to shoot more and nothing else, or will this be a hobby as well?
As long as you understand that with rifle, case prep is the most un-fun and time consuming part of reloading. Speeding this process up requires more money. Even with the 1050, you'll probably still end up trimming separately. So with that said, an XL650 with a Giraud trimmer and a Dillon Swage or reamer/powerdrill combo would be ideal. For pistol is very easy and the XL650 will just fly through rounds. Lots of folks use Wolf small rifle magnum for their 223 loads. I use Winchester small rifle (not magnum). I think Dryflash has some good thoughts on using Wolf SRM. Must read books - ABCs of Reloading, Hornady 8th and probably Lymans (good casting data). You don't need a single stage. It's something I would recommend, but not necessary. However I would recommend an auto-indexer if you really want to start on one (like the XL650). I still load all my 308 on a single stage, mostly because I just enjoy reloading certain rounds on it. |
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Quoted:
Ok, so I have read as much of the sticky above that I could muster. Downloaded the load spreadsheets for rifle and handgun. Did my research on component prices and determined that I can save enough money reloading at my level of shooting to make reloading worth it. I have a few questions: Primers (.223 plinking loads) - I see that people are having good luck with Wolf primers. For .223/5.56 I need a small rifle primer...but regular or magnum? The load spreadsheet doesn't show that and it appears some loads use magnum and some use regular but it's not clear to a novice like myself on that spreadsheet. Lake City Brass - I'm debating going with a Dillon 650XL with a Dillon Bench Mounted swedger. I'll reload about 1000/mo. Would this setup be overkill? Cause I am still looking at the 1050 too. Books - People have been reloading for a long time now...and a lot of that old wisdom isn't on the internet but in books. What are the must read books for a new reloader? Progressive vs. Single Stage for a new person - I've read all the arguments both ways. But I refuse to pay for something twice. So I've concluded that I will just have to be attentive, slow, and deliberate while learning on a progressive... And patient because it appears setting up a progressive can be tricky (especially for a new guy). As far as primers go, the standard non-magnum primer will do fine UNLESS you are loading a specific load that calls for a magnum primer. I've used non-magnum primers where a magnum primer was called for and magnums when they were not called for... I experienced no issues... they functioned the same. Some ball powders, such as W-748, call for magnum primers but like I said, I've not had any issues in some 25+ years. I've been noticing on my mil brass, LC and WCC, that damn near no crimp work is needed... I don't know if they have stopped crimping them as much or what... but the last batch I ran primed about 90% with no crimp removal work. I use a cheap but effective RCBS die... it's worked for many years trouble free. E-bay and Gunbroker have tons of used reloading books... even though they are older editions, tons of info in them is still useful. I have always used a single stage press. I like to be able to just sit back and size lots of brass, or just prime lots of brass, etc. For my needs, a single stage has served me well for a very long time. I like to charge my loads in lots of 50 or 60 and then visually check each one... gives me a good feeling. Buying a single stage now and later getting a progressive is not a waste of money in my book. You can always use a single stage press... |
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I've been loading on single stage presses since the 1980's BUT I don't shoot as much as you say you will. For a 1000 round per month habit then a progressive would be definitely speedier. I agree that learning on a single stage press is best but if you take safety seriously and learn all the steps with the Dillion presses you should be ok. For high volume loading a motorized case trimmer would be necessary.
Primers, I've only used Remington 7 1/2 primers. Others recommended for AR's are CCI 450 or CCI Arsenal 41's. For Wolf primers they ONLY recommend the small rifle magnum.http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=259497 The Dillon Super Swager is the most recommended. I recommend having a single stage press on your bench EVEN IF you decide on a progressive press. It's still useful for a lot of chores and will not be a waste of money. I'd pick a RCBS Rockchucker and it'll last a lifetime. You can start learning on it if you want and like I said it will still be useful for small lots or loading other rounds. The more reloading manuals the better. You can compare data between them all and get specific data for specific bullets None of them are perfect. I like the bullet company manual and the powder company manual with the bullets and powder I use. Some powder companies have data on-line. I compare all on-line data with my manuals. Haven't used Dillions excellent equipment but you need to be very careful and pay attention. I highly recommend cartridge headspace gauges for setting your sizing dies and also case gauges for checking your loaded rounds. Have fun, be careful. |
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I'll add a couple more quick comments - FWIW:
Re: 223 Primers. I use Winchester Small Rifle (WSR) for my 223 loads - though I have seen a number of reports from folks I consider credible who claim that cartridges for an AR should use CCI-41 - which, as I understand it, is a magnum primer with a tougher cup. Some who are far more knowledgeable than me will hopefully chime in - but my general rule now is that when I load with ball powder, I tend to use magnum primers. Right now I am loading a lot of 6.8 rounds with AA 2200 for an AR and am using CCI-450 (small rifle magnum) primers. They have been working great - and I suspect the CCI-41 primers would work the same. As for books - I tend to use online resources now. Years ago, books were all we had and back then I used Lyman, Hornady and Sierra. Those old Sierra manuals have caused me a bit of grief lately as they published some loads that have been shown to be too hot. I recently purchased the latest Hornady and will probably pick up the current Speer manual. Those, in addition to the vast amount of information online should be more than enough. As before, I hope this helps. |
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Quoted: Primers (.223 plinking loads) - I see that people are having good luck with Wolf primers. For .223/5.56 I need a small rifle primer...but regular or magnum? The load spreadsheet doesn't show that and it appears some loads use magnum and some use regular but it's not clear to a novice like myself on that spreadsheet. Good luck finding any, if you do, you should use the wolf small rifle MAGNUM, primers CCI 400, 450, #41; Winchester, remington 7 1/2 primers would all be fine, my recommendation is pick one and stick with it. If you were using a regular primer and try switching to a magnum primer you should re-test your loads. I prefer the CCI 450 magnum primers and the #41's because theoretically, the magnum primers will give you more consistent ignition using ball powders and I use a lot of TAC. Progressive vs. Single Stage for a new person - I've read all the arguments both ways. But I refuse to pay for something twice. So I've concluded that I will just have to be attentive, slow, and deliberate while learning on a progressive... And patient because it appears setting up a progressive can be tricky (especially for a new guy). Up to you, I've heard both sides of the argument and have been using a single stage for 30-06, 223, 9mm and 45 acp for the last 2-3 years. But I don't shoot or load 1000 rds/month either, probably less than half that all calibers. Progressive is on my list but I'm not in much hurry, I actually like reloading though, even at a single stage pace, 50-100 rounds at a time, nice quiet time after I get kids to bed  |
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Notes on Wolf SR primers, There are 3 different Wolf SR primers offered, 2 are bad choices. They have 223 as part of the part number.KVB223 and KVB 223M. Don't get these. Reg and a magnum primer. For your 223 loads you want KVB 556V, also listed as a magnum primer. Look for 556 in the part number. That's what you have to remember, the 556 part. The correct primer for 223 loads. Wolf has confusing names on their primers, so get the right one. |
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Most everyone who loads on a progressive also has some type of single stage bolted to the bench . It just is easier for certain tasks.
Don't be afraid to buy good brand named equipment used if you can find it I like the lyman reloading books, always good to check any internet load against some hard printed source. Every Lyman load will tell you exactally what primer type and most loads will actually tell you what brand of primer and case was used. Any resource , be it internet or printed material should be compared to several other sources and if something seems out of wack be especially cautious . I tend to grab my Lymans , grab the book from whatever bullet company I am intending to use and then check that info against the powder company which is generally available on line . Don't expect stuff to agree 100% but be concerned if something is way different. |
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