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Posted: 1/11/2012 2:51:57 PM EDT
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I'm toying around with trying to get more consistent reloads.
What are all of your suggestions for case neck expander's for the .223? Here is my system.... Brass gets cleaned of dirt, then deprimed, swaged, full length sized and trimmed. Brass then gets recleaned. Now it's ready to get neck sized, primer, bullet, seat, crimp, etc. I know there are a few different neck sizers out there, so what are the favorites and why? Thanks! |
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To the OP Why are you neck sizing the brass after you FL sized the brass. Consider that when you pull that expander ball thru the neck whether Neck or FL sizing you stretch the case. Sort of self defeating....
If you are loading for an bold gun...neck sizing should be sufficient for 3-5 firings..before having to bump the shoulder. |
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I don't use a neck sizer, but I do use the Sinclair neck mandrel die as the first step in my progressive loading sequence - I found that by "sizing" the ID of each case neck right before dropping the powder to the exact same size, my runout has decreased a bunch and I'm getting better rounds. I was very surprised by how different some cases from the same batch of FL sizing felt as they were going through this die... It also helps (in my mind, anyway) to knock down the minute bit of brass left over after going through the Dillon trimmer, saves me from having to chamfer the inside.
Other folks use the Lyman M die to give the case a tiny bit of flare prior to using flat-based bullets, but I haven't tried that yet. I can't imagine why someone would fully neck size after already FL sizing, but I don't know what it would hurt |
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I can't imagine why someone would fully neck size after already FL sizing, Yes, strange?? I missed that on the first read. Yes, strange. The original post referred to "neck expander", so that's were I'll go. I FL size my 223 brass with a Forster FL die with the expander removed. I then "expand" the necks with a Lyman "M" die. Unlike the Bushing dies the "M" die pushes all the imperfections in the neck to the outside were they belong, not to the inside like the bushing dies. This creates extremely concentric brass and bullet run-out is kept to a minimum. I follow up with a Lee Factory Crimp die. |
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Unlike the Bushing dies the "M" die pushes all the imperfections in the neck to the outside were they belong, not to the inside like the bushing dies. This creates extremely concentric brass and bullet run-out is kept to a minimum. Exactly. I used to mess with a bushing die - I found it was a huge pain in the ass, and get much better results using this method (except I use the Sinclair die instead of the Lyman M...) |
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I can't imagine why someone would fully neck size after already FL sizing, Yes, strange?? I missed that on the first read. Yes, strange. The original post referred to "neck expander", so that's were I'll go. I FL size my 223 brass with a Forster FL die with the expander removed. I then "expand" the necks with a Lyman "M" die. Unlike the Bushing dies the "M" die pushes all the imperfections in the neck to the outside were they belong, not to the inside like the bushing dies. This creates extremely concentric brass and bullet run-out is kept to a minimum. I follow up with a Lee Factory Crimp die. Do you use the LFC die on match/ non-cannaluered bullets? I want to try your method. |
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+1 |
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I'm toying around with trying to get more consistent reloads. What are all of your suggestions for case neck expander's for the .223? Here is my system.... Brass gets cleaned of dirt, then deprimed, swaged, full length sized and trimmed. Brass then gets recleaned. Now it's ready to get neck sized, primer, bullet, seat, crimp, etc. I know there are a few different neck sizers out there, so what are the favorites and why? Thanks! Sir, your mix of terms might be a bit confusing for many. In my dictionary of obscure terminology a "neck expander" is different than a "neck sizer". I'll respond to your question within the context of my perception of the difference between the two terms. Sinclair Int. markets "neck expander" and "neck turning" mandrels which are intended to facilitate the user "turning" the outside diameter of the cartridge case. Turning is a process that allows the consistancy minded reloader to make the outside diameter and case neck wall thickness more uniform. The turning mandrels are .002" less than bullet diameter and the expander mandrels are .001" less than bullet diameter. FWIW, most reloaders of .223 Rem cartridges intended to be used in a gas operated semi auto rifle do not recommend neck turning due to decreased case neck wall thicknesses. Neck sizers are a type of die intended solely to resize the case neck and not the case body. Standard FL dies resize the case body and case neck in the same operation. Bushing dies are a refined form of FL die in that they allow the user to select the desired outside diameter of the resized case neck. Having explained all this a bit I'll get on to answering your question: I use Redding type "S" FL resizing dies fitted with a carbide case neck expander ball. I can't tell you exactly which bushing diameter I'm currently using in my .223 Rem. die but I can tell you it leaves the inside neck diameter of my resized cases at .221" or slightly larger depending on neck wall thickness. For the purpose of uniformity and as you have pointed out, Ie: minimizing runout, I use a Sinclair neck turning mandrel to expand the case neck inside diameter to just under .222" due to a variable degree of brass "springback" as the brass becomes more work hardened after repeated reloadings. In my experience this seems to be an optimal inside neck diameter for cartridges that I load bullets with a nominal diameter of .224". YMMV, 7zero1 out. |
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I can't imagine why someone would fully neck size after already FL sizing, Yes, strange?? I missed that on the first read. Yes, strange. The original post referred to "neck expander", so that's were I'll go. I FL size my 223 brass with a Forster FL die with the expander removed. I then "expand" the necks with a Lyman "M" die. Unlike the Bushing dies the "M" die pushes all the imperfections in the neck to the outside were they belong, not to the inside like the bushing dies. This creates extremely concentric brass and bullet run-out is kept to a minimum. I follow up with a Lee Factory Crimp die. Do you use the LFC die on match/ non-cannaluered bullets? I want to try your method. Yes, but I don 't crimp the hell out of them. Nice medium crimp without distorting the hell out of a non-cannelured bullet. |
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I use a slightly smaller bushing and then run the brass through a Redding expander die. |
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I can't imagine why someone would fully neck size after already FL sizing, Yes, strange?? I missed that on the first read. Yes, strange. The original post referred to "neck expander", so that's were I'll go. I FL size my 223 brass with a Forster FL die with the expander removed. I then "expand" the necks with a Lyman "M" die. Unlike the Bushing dies the "M" die pushes all the imperfections in the neck to the outside were they belong, not to the inside like the bushing dies. This creates extremely concentric brass and bullet run-out is kept to a minimum. I follow up with a Lee Factory Crimp die. Do you use the LFC die on match/ non-cannaluered bullets? I want to try your method. Yes, but I don 't crimp the hell out of them. Nice medium crimp without distorting the hell out of a non-cannelured bullet. You're run-out is noticeably less with this method compared to just using a straight up FL resizing die with expander? |
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By the way....
Regarding sources for neck expanding mandrels... K&M makes an expand-mandrel tool and a riser with a window. I had them make several custom small increments so I could cover .30 cal and 223 issues. Regardless of all the methods which were critiqued within the string here, if you ever plan to run neck-turn tools or trim mandrels of various diameters, it is handy to own expanding mandrels to be in a position to control the case neck ID in both directions during your reloading process. For example, suppose you bought a new batch of brass and the case thickness was higher than before? If your selection of bushing die size works the diameter down on the sizing step to a point where your trimmer mandrel is too tight, or you neck turn mandrel is too tight, what will you do? If you have a spread of expander mandrels at the ready, it is no problem. Just in case you ever venture into more advanced neck turning or match prep... |
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I can't imagine why someone would fully neck size after already FL sizing, Yes, strange?? I missed that on the first read. Yes, strange. The original post referred to "neck expander", so that's were I'll go. I FL size my 223 brass with a Forster FL die with the expander removed. I then "expand" the necks with a Lyman "M" die. Unlike the Bushing dies the "M" die pushes all the imperfections in the neck to the outside were they belong, not to the inside like the bushing dies. This creates extremely concentric brass and bullet run-out is kept to a minimum. I follow up with a Lee Factory Crimp die. Do you use the LFC die on match/ non-cannaluered bullets? I want to try your method. Yes, but I don 't crimp the hell out of them. Nice medium crimp without distorting the hell out of a non-cannelured bullet. You're run-out is noticeably less with this method compared to just using a straight up FL resizing die with expander? Yes, in my 223. In other cartridges I FL size with the Redding body die followed by the Lee Collet Neck sizing die. I think this method produces less runout than my 223 method, but i's pretty close to a toss up. |
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