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Posted: 10/8/2011 9:30:45 PM EDT
| I am a complete noon to reloading..I am in the process of getting a press, and everything else..I will be getting a rcbs rockchucker...obviously I have a ton of reading and learning..but for reloading .223 do I get the new AR set of dies from rcbs...the small base dies, or full length dies...I will be reloading for my AR.. |
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do I get the new AR set of dies from rcbs...the small base dies, or full length dies...I will be reloading for my AR.. Small base actually size more of the body than FL. Some will argue they are not necessary and for the most part in most guns it does not matter. I know for a fact in some guns it matters a lot but that is where match tight chambers come into play. I have had SB for 308 for 12+ years because I have a very tight chambered sniper/target rifle that when sizing from another gun simply will not fit in this chamber but with a SB I can get it down. I did not spend extra money because I want to make an argument. I bought the die because I had to. Of course I only need to use it once and neck size as it is a bolt gun. I only recently required a SB for 223 when I bought a Les Baer Custom Varmint. Using RCBS 223 FL was not sufficient and SB made it easy. Now, some will argue it is because they know how to use a FL and I don't. My counter is why should I bust my balls when I can just use a SB and know it is done right from the get go???? If you have neither get the SB and now they come in regular sets so you don't have to buy anything extra How hard do you want to work on sizing cases? SB are easier to insure a better full body sizing and now most manufactures make them (I got the reading SB for 223) I do not care what you get like I don't care what religion you choose. This becomes a contest for some. I would like it if the FL zealots would state what is bad about a SB and why someone who has neither should not get a SB rather than take the "I have a FL and anyone who does not do as I do is an infidel" attitude (Previous post did not just preempting some to follow) Wulfmann |
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I load for several semi-auto rifles from AR's to Browning BARs and I get by with standard FL sizing in all of them. That's just me though, your rifle may require the extra sizing associated with the SB die. That's why they make them, cuz some rifle need them, only your rifle cant tell you what dies you should get. Will it hurt anything if you use a SB die even if it is not needed, naw it will work just fine and make reliable accurate ammo.
Here is a good read on loading for the AR and other semi-auto service rifles. http://www.exteriorballistics.com/reloadbasics/gasgunreload.cfm |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
do I get the new AR set of dies from rcbs...the small base dies, or full length dies...I will be reloading for my AR.. Small base actually size more of the body than FL. Some will argue they are not necessary and for the most part in most guns it does not matter. I know for a fact in some guns it matters a lot but that is where match tight chambers come into play. I have had SB for 308 for 12+ years because I have a very tight chambered sniper/target rifle that when sizing from another gun simply will not fit in this chamber but with a SB I can get it down. I did not spend extra money because I want to make an argument. I bought the die because I had to. Of course I only need to use it once and neck size as it is a bolt gun. I only recently required a SB for 223 when I bought a Les Baer Custom Varmint. Using RCBS 223 FL was not sufficient and SB made it easy. Now, some will argue it is because they know how to use a FL and I don't. My counter is why should I bust my balls when I can just use a SB and know it is done right from the get go???? If you have neither get the SB and now they come in regular sets so you don't have to buy anything extra How hard do you want to work on sizing cases? SB are easier to insure a better full body sizing and now most manufactures make them (I got the reading SB for 223) I do not care what you get like I don't care what religion you choose. This becomes a contest for some. I would like it if the FL zealots would state what is bad about a SB and why someone who has neither should not get a SB rather than take the "I have a FL and anyone who does not do as I do is an infidel" attitude (Previous post did not just preempting some to follow) Wulfmann I agree . You may not need them ,but its much nicer having & not needing ,than needing & not having & I've been using them for over thirty years . |
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I have both and the SB dies are not needed in any production rifle chamber I have ever seen, they over work the brass greatly and produce ammo that is a sloppy fit in most chambers which is not good for accuracy at all. They also lend themselves to excessive head space because most people using them do not take the time to use a head space gauge and set the sizing correctly for their chamber, if they did most of them would not be using SB dies in the first place.
Get the regular FL dies and you will be a happy camper. |
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I also have both FL and SB sizing dies for my ARs. I bought the SB RCBS dies 30 years ago, believing all the 'semi-auto' hype about the SB dies. I used them until about 5 years ago, when I bought some Redding FL dies, which I have used since to feed 2 1/2 ARs. In reality, I have not observed any measureable difference in brass sized in either die. Both have worked perfectly in my guns, when properly set up using a case gage. A case gage is a must for either one. I personally have not noticed any difference in case life with the FL vs. SB dies. However, as a reloader, if a FL die will make my brass last longer, that's what I'll use. Some will play the accuracy card; saying that the smaller-sized brass will be looser in the chamber, and be less accurate. I don't know. So, my take on this whole thing is this: Either will work. If you want the most accuracy with better brass life, go with the FL. If you need ultimate reliability, use the SB. Chances are that you won't be able to tell any difference with either one. YMMV. |
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Quoted: Happy camper? Possible but not for sure. So you really think MOST people using S.B. dies are stupid, do you? They never heard of or use a head space gauge, huh? And the proof is that if they did they wouldn't be using SB dies in the first place? Right?I have both and the SB dies are not needed in any production rifle chamber I have ever seen, they over work the brass greatly and produce ammo that is a sloppy fit in most chambers which is not good for accuracy at all. They also lend themselves to excessive head space because most people using them do not take the time to use a head space gauge and set the sizing correctly for their chamber, if they did most of them would not be using SB dies in the first place. Get the regular FL dies and you will be a happy camper. The next thing you're going to say is RCBS and Dillon are either stupid or are selling crap for stupids. RCBS makes both S.B and reg. base full length sizers. Dillon makes and sells ONLY S.B. full length sizers......ask them. At least RCBS gives you a choice. Also sizing brass often only .001 smaller (than regular sizers) at the base does NOT hurt the brass nearly as bad as shooting it, which moves the shoulder forward .004 or .005 and then you "properly headspace" it back each time. I use both....depending on the gun chamber....I don't do sloppy chambers....unless being able to close the bolt of a properly head spaced round is sloppy.... I use Wilson head space dies for everything I load....and some chambers still require S.B. dies to be dependable.....depends on the gun, son. And about the RCBS AR dies. They have a S.B. sizer and they have a taper crimp seater. Saves you money, time, and trouble. I don't have one yet. But when I wear out the ones I have, I will. Great value....you don't have to buy an extra taper crimp die. Great idea for trouble free AR shooting. P.S. the brass will wear out alright, but due to the AR's Action and moving shoulders back and forth, long before base failures cause it from being squeezed a thousandth. |
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As for the life of 223 brass. I get about 10 shootings out of a batch before they start to have cracked necks.
When I get to the point where 5% of all fired cases have cracked or split necks I chuck the entire batch I have never had any brass bodies wear out. All guns are different and FL certainly work fine for most Dillon going all SB is new to me but I don't have any Dillon dies (I have 2 presses a SQDB and a 550B) That is interesting and should settle a lot of arguments. It certainly would not hurt to use FL dies if they work good in your guns but when I need/want a new sizer I get a SB because I know it does that extra bit of body that on occasion makes a difference. Wulfmann |
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Quoted: Dillon going all SB is new to me but I don't have any Dillon dies (I have 2 presses a SQDB and a 550B) Dillon's rifle dies have been small base since forever as far as I know. They don't use the term "small base". They describe the same functionality however (http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24494/catid/4/Dillon_Rifle_Dies__Three_Die_Sets_) Sizing/Depriming Die The sizing/depriming die is full-length, to minimum tolerances, sizing cases down to function in semi- and full-automatic firearms |
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Here are situations where a SB FL sizer may be of use.
Basically the deal is when you try to load brass that was fired in different chambers or a sloppy chambered machine gun. You need to get the brass back to Min Spec. Loading for Browning BAR's may require it if you try to load brass that was not fired as new in that chamber.. If you took brand new brass or factory ammo and fired it in a tight match chambered gun you will not have a problem for the most part using neck sizers or FL sizers or a bump die. Here is the but, if you try to size brass fired in a different chamber for your tight chambered gun then you will probably need a small base die for the initial sizing. <removed> you could of left that out of your post. dryflash3 Because if you can shoot factory ammo in min spec chamber, then that brass size with eiother a neck or FL sizer will chamber again in that chamber. Small base sizing over works the brass and decreases useful case life.. |
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