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Posted: 7/4/2011 9:33:35 AM EDT
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I've just started loading .44 special for my 629 and it's been going well. Now I want to start loading up the growing pile of .30 Carbine brass that I have lying around. Is there any major differences between loading these two cartridges? I'm assuming I use rifle primers even though some consider it a pistol cartridge. Do I need to trim the cases? Since this is for a semi automatic rifle what dimensions do I need to look at for reliable feeding? Should I purchase a gauge? Any recommendation on dies? I have RCBS for my .44 special and I really like them. Anything else would be helpful.
Thank you. |
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I have loaded it in the past, but its been a long time since I did it, it was the very first cartridge I tried to reload, when the cheap Korean war surplus 30 carbine began to run out. Its not difficult to load 30 carbine, its a tapered straight wall cartridge, so it probably won't lengthen, you would pretty much handle it like a pistol cartridge. Are they offering carbide dies for 30 carbine now? They didn't used to offer it because of the tapered case. |
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I have loaded it in the past, but its been a long time since I did it, it was the very first cartridge I tried to reload, when the cheap Korean war surplus 30 carbine began to run out. Its not difficult to load 30 carbine, its a tapered straight wall cartridge, so it probably won't lengthen, you would pretty much handle it like a pistol cartridge. Are they offering carbide dies for 30 carbine now? They didn't used to offer it because of the tapered case. Yes, carbide dies are offered for .30 Carbine. And worth every penny. 
In my experience, you'll still need to lube at least some of the brass, maybe every third one or so; residual lube in the die will do for the others. No Hornady One Shot here, use the good stuff. I had problems with some range brass being too long for my chamber; some was so long the bolt wouldn't close. Luckily, I was loading cast bullets and pulling them down was easy. But do pay attention to brass length. |
| What will you be shooting the reloads in? If in a carbine, you need to measure every round, if one is too long, and those suckers will grow, you could have an out of battery firing. Bad ju-ju. When reloading for mine, I have to trim 20-25% of the cases each time. |
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What will you be shooting the reloads in? If in a carbine, you need to measure every round, if one is too long, and those suckers will grow, you could have an out of battery firing. Bad ju-ju. When reloading for mine, I have to trim 20-25% of the cases each time. It'll be an M1 Carbine. |
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Lube every case.
I trim anything over 1.286" There is no real easy way to trim this case, that is the only thing that takes time. I size and then measure all the cases and separate them into load and trim piles. When I get bored I start trimming. after that the Loadmaster can pump them out. |
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An out of battery fire is not going to happen in an M1 due to an excessively long case. If you look at the bolt when it is installed in the receiver, you'll note that the tail on the firing pin cams against a cut on a cross bar on the reciever. This blocks the inertial firing pin from contacting the primer until the bolt has not only moved all the way forward but also rotated into a fully locked position. That prevents firing pin related slam fires and out of battery fires. If you have an out of battery fire with an M1 carbine the culprit is far more likely to be a high primer being set off by an impact with the bolt face during the feed cycle and that has nothing at all to do with case length.
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What will you be shooting the reloads in? If in a carbine, you need to measure every round, if one is too long, and those suckers will grow, you could have an out of battery firing. Bad ju-ju. When reloading for mine, I have to trim 20-25% of the cases each time. It'll be an M1 Carbine. However, since it headspaces on the mouth of the case an overly long case can be crimped into the bullet and increase chamber pressures. |
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The .30 carbine is a straight wall pistol case, but pressure wise it has a SAAMI spec of 40,000 psi well over most handgun rounds and right up there with .357 Sig, .357 Max and .45 Win Mag.
It can cause some interesting issues. For example I've noted with warm loads of 2400 and 110 gr FMJs that the powder charge would occasionally cause a small ring of copper off the exposed base of the bullet to separate and lodge in the front of the chamber causing the following round to fail to feed fer enough to let the bolt go into battery. |
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An out of battery fire is not going to happen in an M1 due to an excessively long case. If you look at the bolt when it is installed in the receiver, you'll note that the tail on the firing pin cams against a cut on a cross bar on the reciever. This blocks the inertial firing pin from contacting the primer until the bolt has not only moved all the way forward but also rotated into a fully locked position. That prevents firing pin related slam fires and out of battery fires. If you have an out of battery fire with an M1 carbine the culprit is far more likely to be a high primer being set off by an impact with the bolt face during the feed cycle and that has nothing at all to do with case length.
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What will you be shooting the reloads in? If in a carbine, you need to measure every round, if one is too long, and those suckers will grow, you could have an out of battery firing. Bad ju-ju. When reloading for mine, I have to trim 20-25% of the cases each time. It'll be an M1 Carbine. However, since it headspaces on the mouth of the case an overly long case can be crimped into the bullet and increase chamber pressures. True, in a properly functioning military M1 carbine that has been maintained to specs. However, they're all over 50 years old now, who knows how many times rebuilt with what parts. I understand from my reading that later Universal M1 Carbines did have a problem with cases that were too long. Not knowing the exact history/condition/type of the carbine, I'd still recommend that you measure every case after resizing. The firing pin tail camming over the bolt is a safety feature for military ammo. Why depend on it when reloading? My original intent of asking what type of weapon was in case it was a revolver. You can get away with having a little extra length there - the cylinder should lock up if the case is way too long. |
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For the small amount of 30 carbine shooting I do, old steel dies and the Lee case trimmer work fine. Lee makes a stud that you can mount in a cordless screwdriver. They also make a trimmer head mounted in a wooden ball that is lots easier to hold.
I like the Winchester 296 powder for loading the carbine. Use Winchester's loading information and please note this is a Do Not Deviate load - it needs to be followed Exactly. You can get yourself in real trouble if you reduce loads with 296 powder below what Winchester recommends. Regards, dcat |
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I just started loading for the M1 carbine and found lots of helpful advice from the CMP website.
In short, I have made hundreds of great rounds by paying attention to details like case length trimming. Also ensured the recoil springs are in good shape as well as a clean rifle chamber. I used RCBS dies, and mixed in a Lee carbide sizing die that Midway had on sale earlier this year. Hitting the casing with Dillon case lube made this go smoothly. My loads functioned without trouble, and gave good accuracy. IMR 4227 13.8 grains, CCI 400 small rifle primers, mixed brass trimmed to 1.280, 110 grain plated bullets. From the Lyman 49th manual: IMR 4227......min powder =13.5 max powder= 15.0+ (compressed powder load) See this link for the information from the CMP: http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf Also tried the Winchester data given in the link,,,,it worked very good too. The exact Winchester load is: Powder: Winchester WW296 15.0 grains (considered maximum, do not exceed) Bullet: Winchester 110 grain hollow soft point Cases: WW used for data Primers: WSR used for data Specifications: 1980 feet per second at 36,000 C.U.P pressure in a 20” barrel. This matches the USGI velocity spec of 1970 feet per second and is well under the 40,000 C.U.P. pressure spec. The load has been observed to function any carbine that would work with anything else. A rare few seem to not work well with any load. |
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An out of battery fire is not going to happen in an M1 due to an excessively long case. If you look at the bolt when it is installed in the receiver, you'll note that the tail on the firing pin cams against a cut on a cross bar on the reciever. This blocks the inertial firing pin from contacting the primer until the bolt has not only moved all the way forward but also rotated into a fully locked position. That prevents firing pin related slam fires and out of battery fires. If you have an out of battery fire with an M1 carbine the culprit is far more likely to be a high primer being set off by an impact with the bolt face during the feed cycle and that has nothing at all to do with case length.
Quoted:
What will you be shooting the reloads in? If in a carbine, you need to measure every round, if one is too long, and those suckers will grow, you could have an out of battery firing. Bad ju-ju. When reloading for mine, I have to trim 20-25% of the cases each time. It'll be an M1 Carbine. However, since it headspaces on the mouth of the case an overly long case can be crimped into the bullet and increase chamber pressures. True, in a properly functioning military M1 carbine that has been maintained to specs. However, they're all over 50 years old now, who knows how many times rebuilt with what parts. I understand from my reading that later Universal M1 Carbines did have a problem with cases that were too long. Not knowing the exact history/condition/type of the carbine, I'd still recommend that you measure every case after resizing. The firing pin tail camming over the bolt is a safety feature for military ammo. Why depend on it when reloading? My original intent of asking what type of weapon was in case it was a revolver. You can get away with having a little extra length there - the cylinder should lock up if the case is way too long. It's a Winchester M1 from 1944 or 1943, can't remember. It's been rearsenaled with all of the goodies you see in late war guns. Aside from about a 50% or 60% finish all of the parts show very little wear and the bore is bright with clear rifling. Thanks for the info guys. I think I'm going to hold off for awhile while I get some more experience loading for the .44. It doesn't seam like I can buy components any cheaper than some of the decent commercial ammo for sale so I'll wait till I have more brass stockpiled. |
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Bullets are the high cost item. I used to cast 90 grain bullets for mine using a mould intended for a .30 Luger. At the time, I enjoyed shooting an M1 carbine at light rifle tactical matches where I could consistently beat most of the shooters with tacti-cool AR-15s, which added to the fun.
I found that if I hard cast them from a heat treated (quenched) alloy with some antimony in it (wheel weights with about 1.5% tin added) I could push them to 2000 fps with no serious leading if they were sized to .309. However when shooting cast bullets in an M1 carbine, you may have to remove the gas piston and clean the gas port every 500 rounds or so. Eventually I just found it easier and not much more expensive to just shoot one of my AR-15 carbines. Not as much fun, but more practical. |
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