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Posted: 9/20/2010 9:14:26 AM EDT
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First trip into .40 land, and, with all the talk about blowouts, I want to keep the pressure low. Winchester data says 4.0-5.0 gr for W231 with 180 gr FMJ. Other data (Lyman) has higher loads. I tend to trust the powder manufacturers, but, as usual, I'm looking here for your opinions.
I'm thinking about starting with 4.2 gr of W231 and seeing how it goes. Loading for Glock and XD. Some say not to load for Glock, but if a low to mid range load blows it up, it's a piece of crap to start with. I've loaded thousands of rounds for rifle and revolver, but this is my first run at auto ammo. Thoughts on 40 loads?? Specifically for 231, but others are welcome. I've looked back about 25 pages and cannot find any info. |
| What about OAL?? I assume each bullet manufacturer would have a specific OAL instead of a generic one for all unless there is some sort of standard length inside the brass for each weight. It seems to be that seating depth is very critical in this round due to the higher working pressures. |
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Set-back should be your biggest worry.
Personally, I use CARBIDE dies AND I use case lube (the leave-on Hornady OneShot kind - just a little). Why? Because I only use a "small base" or Lee brand UNDERSIZE or "U" die (gotta call them on the phone if you want to buy one). Never had a setback problem with my 40s & I shoot a LOT. For powder, I easily exceep USPSA Major velocity with a 180 using Solo 1000 powder - it is single-base. |
| Setback of the bullet or brass???? I've experienced shoulder setback issues on rifle rounds, but haven't considered that an issue on rimless auto rounds. Could you explain?? I'll be using Dilllon carbide on a 550 with the sizer die hitting the shell plate. I always size as far down the case as I can go. |
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The worry being that the bullet will get set back or forced deeper into the case upon feeding. This dramatically reduces internal case capacity and spikes pressure.
I use 1.135" for everything from 135's to 200 grainers like the previous poster. EGW (Evolution Gun Works) usually has Lee U dies available and in stock for 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP. They work, as does Reddings G-Rx die. Glocks bulge the cases more than any other pistol. If you don't get it out it will come back and bite you. Use your barrel after removing it from the pistol as a chamber gage. Each round should easily enter and drop free from the barrel's chamber. I use Power Pistol for 9mm and .40 S&W, it rocks, gives good velocity and burns clean when loaded close to full power. It does have one drawback, it makes a concussive boom and lights up the night sky with an impressive fireball. July 4th, 365 days a year. |
| Will a taper crimp help with setback?? I've read opinions both ways. Some say that the taper crimp is simply returning the brass back to a straight wall after flaring and others say to make sure there is a .001-.002" crimp in place. Seems to me that a crimp would be necessary for this round. |
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Quoted: Do you need to worry about case bulge w/ all .40 calibers or just Glocks? Isn't the problem w/ Glocks that the case isn't fully supported/encompassed which causes that bulge? Gen 3 Glocks have more chamber support, not as much as an aftermarket barrel but more than Gen 2. The other big makers have fully supported chambers. If you're running low pressure reloads you're safer as well. When the case has been sized a few times and is being run hot you're more likely to KB. Eliminate the doubt and just buy an aftermarket barrel. |
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Quoted:
First trip into .40 land, and, with all the talk about blowouts, I want to keep the pressure low. Winchester data says 4.0-5.0 gr for W231 with 180 gr FMJ. Other data (Lyman) has higher loads. I tend to trust the powder manufacturers, but, as usual, I'm looking here for your opinions. I'm thinking about starting with 4.2 gr of W231 and seeing how it goes. Loading for Glock and XD. Some say not to load for Glock, but if a low to mid range load blows it up, it's a piece of crap to start with. I've loaded thousands of rounds for rifle and revolver, but this is my first run at auto ammo. Thoughts on 40 loads?? Specifically for 231, but others are welcome. I've looked back about 25 pages and cannot find any info. Dude - get a few reloading books. IMO (and I am NO EXPERT) 4.2 g is way low. I loaded 500 165 JHP .40 using 5.0 grains of HP-38, which some say is the same as the 231. As one poster noted, it's a pretty mild load. I was going to ladder up on my next batch after testing/chrono of a sample. I'd like to ride at about 1,000 fps. As far as set back - you are supposed to crimp semi auto handgun ammo I am told by many. I will use the Lee FCD for both my .40 and .45 ammo - once I get around to making a Midway order. |
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Quoted: Dude - get a few reloading books. IMO (and I am NO EXPERT) 4.2 g is way low. 4.2gr of W231 or WST isn't close to the limit for a lead or cast bullet. 3.8gr of WST with a 180gr Berry's will be ~750 fps. 100% reliable function with all of my pistols from HK, Springfield, Taurus, Beretta, and Sig. At 3.5gr there isn't enough power to reliably get the slide to lock on an empty magazine. |
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Dude - get a few reloading books. . Yea.......I've got more than a few....that's the problem. BTW...4.2 is too low for your 165 gr bullets, but it's still within the acceptable range for 180 (according to Winchester data). The problem is that other data goes all the way up to 5.6 gr. Too much spread for my liking in a cartridge that is so sensitive. As I said before, I tend to trust data from the powder manufacturer more than from the reloader parts folks. All I'm after is a load that will cycle every time AND BE SAFE in all my .40s regardless of brand. I'll use premium factory ammo for defense. Again, thanks for everyone's input. |
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Dude - get a few reloading books. IMO (and I am NO EXPERT) 4.2 g is way low. 4.2gr of W231 or WST isn't close to the limit for a lead or cast bullet. 3.8gr of WST with a 180gr Berry's will be ~750 fps. 100% reliable function with all of my pistols from HK, Springfield, Taurus, Beretta, and Sig. At 3.5gr there isn't enough power to reliably get the slide to lock on an empty magazine. You mean the lower limit? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dude - get a few reloading books. IMO (and I am NO EXPERT) 4.2 g is way low. 4.2gr of W231 or WST isn't close to the limit for a lead or cast bullet. 3.8gr of WST with a 180gr Berry's will be ~750 fps. 100% reliable function with all of my pistols from HK, Springfield, Taurus, Beretta, and Sig. At 3.5gr there isn't enough power to reliably get the slide to lock on an empty magazine. You mean the lower limit? Yes. |
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Dude - get a few reloading books. IMO (and I am NO EXPERT) 4.2 g is way low. 4.2gr of W231 or WST isn't close to the limit for a lead or cast bullet. 3.8gr of WST with a 180gr Berry's will be ~750 fps. 100% reliable function with all of my pistols from HK, Springfield, Taurus, Beretta, and Sig. At 3.5gr there isn't enough power to reliably get the slide to lock on an empty magazine. You mean the lower limit? Yes. 10-4 |
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Do you need to worry about case bulge w/ all .40 calibers or just Glocks? Isn't the problem w/ Glocks that the case isn't fully supported/encompassed which causes that bulge? Gen 3 Glocks have more chamber support, not as much as an aftermarket barrel but more than Gen 2. The other big makers have fully supported chambers. If you're running low pressure reloads you're safer as well. When the case has been sized a few times and is being run hot you're more likely to KB. Eliminate the doubt and just buy an aftermarket barrel. Sorry to threadjack, but what about guns other than Glocks? S&W M&P for example? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do you need to worry about case bulge w/ all .40 calibers or just Glocks? Isn't the problem w/ Glocks that the case isn't fully supported/encompassed which causes that bulge? Gen 3 Glocks have more chamber support, not as much as an aftermarket barrel but more than Gen 2. The other big makers have fully supported chambers. If you're running low pressure reloads you're safer as well. When the case has been sized a few times and is being run hot you're more likely to KB. Eliminate the doubt and just buy an aftermarket barrel. Sorry to threadjack, but what about guns other than Glocks? S&W M&P for example? S&W M&P has a fully supported chamber as do H&K and Sig. |
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W231 and WST weights are interchangeable. I find WST to be cleaner and smoke less. For Winchester primers and any brass I use 4.1 grains of WST with 180gr Berry's. The OAL is 1.135". wst and 231 are interchangeable? how do you figure that? from the Hodgdon/Win site: 180 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .400" 1.125" 4.1 797 23,800 PSI 5.0 947 32,900 PSI 180 GR. HDY XTP Winchester WST .400" 1.125" 3.9 830 28,300 PSI 4.3 888 32,400 PSI |
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Quoted: Quoted: W231 and WST weights are interchangeable. I find WST to be cleaner and smoke less. For Winchester primers and any brass I use 4.1 grains of WST with 180gr Berry's. The OAL is 1.135". wst and 231 are interchangeable? how do you figure that? from the Hodgdon/Win site: 180 GR. HDY XTP Winchester 231 .400" 1.125" 4.1 797 23,800 PSI 5.0 947 32,900 PSI 180 GR. HDY XTP Winchester WST .400" 1.125" 3.9 830 28,300 PSI 4.3 888 32,400 PSI Empirically, and from numerous reports here, brianenos, glocktalk, sigforum, etc. Before there was a lot of published info for WST it was found that the powder mimicked W231. On a burn chart W231 is #26, WST is #20, so WST is considered a faster powder. You can't take reloading manuals as gospel. The published loads from powder or bullet makers are to be used as a reference. They're not peer reviewed literature like scientific or medical journals. You still have to go through the steps to find what's safe for you. Find a reloading manual that's older than 10 years. Look at various loads using a bullet and primer that hasn't changed. You'll find loads where the max load that was published 20+ years ago is higher than what is published in the latest edition. There are some loads from 20+ years ago that have a starting load that's close to what's currently listed as maximum load. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Do you need to worry about case bulge w/ all .40 calibers or just Glocks? Isn't the problem w/ Glocks that the case isn't fully supported/encompassed which causes that bulge? Gen 3 Glocks have more chamber support, not as much as an aftermarket barrel but more than Gen 2. The other big makers have fully supported chambers. Total Internet BS! All of the current crop of auto pistols patterned after John Browning's basic design have some degree of limited chamber support at the 6 o'clock location because of the feed ramp. See for yourself.  |
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